Qualifications needed?

grantx,

Sign here, I would LOVE to hire you, please just guarantee to me that your trading account has underperformed the risk free rate recently (Sharpe ratio below 1 is preferable).

If you are educated to GCSE level you are over qualified though so might be best to forget anything you did learn and just think freely.

One more thing... please never dress appropriately, no shirts, ties, haircuts, polished shoes or respect.

Welcome aboard!

NQR
 
At the end of the day though would you rather give your money to the harvard MBA who can return 10% pa,
Or Grant Soprano who can return 40% from his jail cell.
 
One more thing. Surely you are missing the point of the markets, to enable people to avoid careers not develop them, equities give you dividends that you have never worked for, fixed income, commodities - money that you have never worked for. The chances of you being the best and highest educated 1% to work in the markets are slim but you don't have to be. Don't be a highly educated slave. Hire them.
 
Lightning,

A math's Ph.D can lower his sights, an illiterate/innumerate cannot raise his.

Grant.
 
hey

Thanks alot to everyone who contributed, the advice is great even the disagreement is a good resource :LOL:

Thank You very much

PS. Should i try and get an As level in maths next year?

PPs. Do companies value trading ability alot, is it something they would hire on or just an added bonus next to qualifications?
 
Tom,

I would suggest you do maths A level.

I suspect most employers wouldn't expect a trainee to have trading experience. Further, a little trading experience may be viewed as a hindrance by some in that it may need to be "unlearned" or erased if its bases conflicts with a company's methods and philosophy.

Similar to Management Consultant , a Quant is someone who sees something working in practise and wonders if it works in theory (with apologies to NQR). They are closet accountants.

A knowledge of Aramaic for compiling reports/papers is desirable.

Grant (a closet quant).
 
Ethics 101

Percentages, by field, of graduate students who plagiarize or cheat, according to a survey by professors at several universities:

56% of MBA.

45% of law students.

39% of social-science.

49% of medical and health care students.

Info by Daniel Chen
 
Hello,

I would be extremely grateful if anyone could offer me some answers to a few questions.

I am currently 23yrs old, at the moment I am working as a prop trader in a firm in the city, trading bond futures. I return to University in October in order to complete the last year of my undergraduate degree, therefore I will complete in May/June 2008. I have been through two graduate training schemes, despite not actually being a graduate and I came top in the first and second in the more recent of the schemes.

The reason I took a year-out to learn more about trading, train and eventually start trading, (albeit within a firm and not a bank, unfortunately), is down to a number of things; I was extremely eager to have a taste of the business, I wanted the experience on my CV and I think that I needed to add a practical slant to the theory I was being bombarded with on a daily basis at Uni, which I must admit has greatly benefitted my trading so far, without the knowledge acquired over the first and second years at Uni I'd have been slightly lost in a proprietary firm, because the training isn't adequate in the slightest.

I am now in the position where I am trading reasonably well and my size is being increased and I should be able to make a little money out of this year before returning to my final year at Uni.

A few questions:

1) Based on the list of qualifications below are there any further qualifications, either academic or professional that you might be able to recommend essential/worthwhile?

-BSc Financial Economics(Lon)*(Current grade: 2:1/Expected: 2:1).
-S&II Unit1-Regs
-S&II Unit2-Securities
-S&II Unit3-Derivatives
-Eurex exam*
-Member of the A.C.I.B*, (this coincides with the completion of my bachelors)
*(Incomplete currently studying/taking)

2) Do the qualifications stated above and if any recommendations satisfy the academic/professional qualifications that banks are looking for?

3) Does age matter? This might sound odd, but is 24/25 too old to join a bank with a view to becoming a trader.

4) Does anyone know of any good opportunities/locations to meet/network with bank/hedge fund traders in the city?

5) How important are the qualifications in relation to the person himself? I mean provided the boxes are ticked it's down to how you come across, form relationships, first impressions and so on..?

6) This is significantly more specific. Is there anyone that knows exactly what it is the banks/funds are looking for when they recruit an individual into their company for this type of role?

7) What is the best way in for someone in my position? Which banks should I approach and why those specific ones?

8) I'm thinking of doing an internship. Failing that can anyone recommend another method of getting in to a bank?

9) Will my prop-trading experience hold me back in any way shape or form? Will this be viewed negatively by potential employers,(banks)?

10) Any advice for me between now and early October, any advice that will add value and get my CV to the top of the pile?

I will be eagerly awaiting any response to this posting, but please only respond with advice etc if you have the relevant experience and/or knowledge to do so, much appreciated.

STH.
 
Out of curiosity, what did they teach you at uni that was helpful for prop trading in a firm?
I can't imagine what would be of practical use in most academic courses.

A lot of trading in banks is just agency work and not that much fun.
 
hasse said:
Hello,

I would be extremely grateful if anyone could offer me some answers to a few questions.

I am currently 23yrs old, at the moment I am working as a prop trader in a firm in the city, trading bond futures. I return to University in October in order to complete the last year of my undergraduate degree, therefore I will complete in May/June 2008. I have been through two graduate training schemes, despite not actually being a graduate and I came top in the first and second in the more recent of the schemes.

The reason I took a year-out to learn more about trading, train and eventually start trading, (albeit within a firm and not a bank, unfortunately), is down to a number of things; I was extremely eager to have a taste of the business, I wanted the experience on my CV and I think that I needed to add a practical slant to the theory I was being bombarded with on a daily basis at Uni, which I must admit has greatly benefitted my trading so far, without the knowledge acquired over the first and second years at Uni I'd have been slightly lost in a proprietary firm, because the training isn't adequate in the slightest.

I am now in the position where I am trading reasonably well and my size is being increased and I should be able to make a little money out of this year before returning to my final year at Uni.

A few questions:

1) Based on the list of qualifications below are there any further qualifications, either academic or professional that you might be able to recommend essential/worthwhile?

-BSc Financial Economics(Lon)*(Current grade: 2:1/Expected: 2:1).
-S&II Unit1-Regs
-S&II Unit2-Securities
-S&II Unit3-Derivatives
-Eurex exam*
-Member of the A.C.I.B*, (this coincides with the completion of my bachelors)
*(Incomplete currently studying/taking)

2) Do the qualifications stated above and if any recommendations satisfy the academic/professional qualifications that banks are looking for?

3) Does age matter? This might sound odd, but is 24/25 too old to join a bank with a view to becoming a trader.

4) Does anyone know of any good opportunities/locations to meet/network with bank/hedge fund traders in the city?

5) How important are the qualifications in relation to the person himself? I mean provided the boxes are ticked it's down to how you come across, form relationships, first impressions and so on..?

6) This is significantly more specific. Is there anyone that knows exactly what it is the banks/funds are looking for when they recruit an individual into their company for this type of role?

7) What is the best way in for someone in my position? Which banks should I approach and why those specific ones?

8) I'm thinking of doing an internship. Failing that can anyone recommend another method of getting in to a bank?

9) Will my prop-trading experience hold me back in any way shape or form? Will this be viewed negatively by potential employers,(banks)?

10) Any advice for me between now and early October, any advice that will add value and get my CV to the top of the pile?

I will be eagerly awaiting any response to this posting, but please only respond with advice etc if you have the relevant experience and/or knowledge to do so, much appreciated.

STH.
Click to expand...


Hi,

My opinions below:

1 and 2) Do the CFA and or the Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst (CAIA) exams. Even if you want to trade rather than manage investments having them shows that you are bright and prepared to work hard. They are not difficult (Masters level) but there is a large bulk of info to learn.

3) 24/5 is fine. I started at 23 - not so different. Recently hired a guy in his late 20s.

4) Nope. Networking is a very blunt tool in my opinion. It's not who you know it is what you know that will determine your career.

5) I think that qualifications help you as a person to develop and teach you the quantitative skills you need (which is why so many traders start out studying physics / stats / maths). I do not think that they make a success directly. Get the best qualifications as they will get you through the doors and help you as a professional once you get there.

6) If you PM me I will send you a few questions that I often ask at interview. I look for the ability to answer low to mid level probability and trading questions on the spot without blinking (easy example I have a coin, I toss it once and record the value. If I toss it 3 more times and achieve the same value each time I will give you $20. If any one comes up different you get nothing. What is the value of this option?). Counter intuitive probability paradoxes are also on my list (the girl/boy problem etc).

I also do a quick 20 question (no calculator) maths test. Basic stuff but under time pressure. Then it is a matter of my belief in your dedication, ability to work hard, mental health (!) etc.

To get through the door we require a 1st at undergrad if the candidate has no masters, a 2:1 with a distinction at masters would replace this or a Phd in a quant subject makes up for any other poor academics (2:2 etc).

7) Go for all of the big and mid level guys. It is a competitive market.

8) Internships are great. I did them 3 summers running when at uni. They pay well and will secure you a graduate position if you are any good.

9) I would see it as a positive to neutral. Not a negative - but I don't work for a bank (Hedge Fund).

10) PM me your CV if you like. I will tell you what I think when I get some time to look.

Nothing matters more than good qualifications when you are starting out or good experience as you progress.

Good luck,

NQR
 
RE: JMREEVE

Several aspects of the first two years of my degree, (BSc Financial Economics), proved to be very useful.

-The statistical and mathematical aspects proved to be useful when choosing technical indicators and actually understanding what they mean, e.g. MACD moving average convergence/divergence.

-My lecturers emphasised reading the FT each day to get a feel for the economy both domestic and international.

-Other aspects of the degree such as the CAPM, bond maths, term structure of interest rates, options theory all help to give you a broader knowledge base.

So some useful stuff and the lecturers are very good.

STH.
 
If you are educated to GCSE level you are over qualified though so might be best to forget anything you did learn and just think freely.

One more thing... please never dress appropriately, no shirts, ties, haircuts, polished shoes or respect.

Welcome aboard!

NQR[/QUOTE]

My last post was a little bit harsh, I hope it has been taken with a pinch of salt

Cheers
 
Last edited:
ryangillespie said:
Hi , I have been following your posts.

I have 9 GCSEs , I joined the army at 17 and was serving in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan before I was 22. I am no scholar but the army has tought me more about life than any uni can. You seem to be so sure about your self and make a point of making people feel worthless. I would love the chance to see you out in afghanistan. Lots of the poor and lazy people that you talk about are out fighting for the people back home( I dont think they would fight for you, you sound like your stuck up your own as*). One of my freinds made 6 figures at the age of 22 left the army and then went on to get a job on the floor of a well known IB. He had no education. :clap:He was very grounded and well liked, unlike you (n)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who your adressing?
Although the post your responding to is over a year old, do you not think your being a bit aggressive? You dont have to fight any one on here bud, we're not your enemy.
I'm sure the army has taught you many things in life but they would of course be different to an education at uni. I can only imagine you'd have been taught stricked discipline and you've probably seen things that many would wish not to but I'm sure you are a good egg at heart.
 
Lee Shepherd said:
I'm not sure who your adressing?
Although the post your responding to is over a year old, do you not think your being a bit aggressive? You dont have to fight any one on here bud, we're not your enemy.
I'm sure the army has taught you many things in life but they would of course be different to an education at uni. I can only imagine you'd have been taught stricked discipline and you've probably seen things that many would wish not to but I'm sure you are a good egg at heart.
Click to expand...


Hi Lee

Slightly harsh, had to be taken with a pinch of salt. A formal education is not the be all and end all. Very nice to have though. I hope an opportunity presents its self to me in the future. If it doesnt find me im sure ill find it.

How did you start out?

Ryan
 
Hello mate,

Long story short, Paper traded when 12/13 opened up account at 17(father was a regular trader and opened acc under power of his name on my behalf)own acc at 18. Was only trading light and stocks only,(bt,railtrack,some science and internet) as that was what suited due to work commitments(employed). Went self employed 21/22 and got in to indices around 4 years ago, full time trader position as oppose to investing in stocks as its more work but obvioulsy more risk/reward.

How about you?
 
Lee Shepherd said:
I'm not sure who your adressing?
Although the post your responding to is over a year old, do you not think your being a bit aggressive? You dont have to fight any one on here bud, we're not your enemy.
I'm sure the army has taught you many things in life but they would of course be different to an education at uni. I can only imagine you'd have been taught stricked discipline and you've probably seen things that many would wish not to but I'm sure you are a good egg at heart.
Click to expand...

I have had the benefit of both an Academic Education and being in the Army. Without doubt the later was far more benefical then the former. The Army is always providing training for it's officers and soldiers every year, these courses are of a practical and theorical nature. Then of course the Operational environment where such theories are placed in the real world.

Uni is fine, but many of the great traders never recieved a University education, it's just that the fashion at the moment is Uni route. Even Jesse Livermore never had an education:LOL:.

An University Education is overrated, but then ignorance is very expensive in the long run :smart:
 
Hi Aston1st,

Interesting...Although Jesse Livermore never had a degree or 'education' as it's being refered to, do you mind me asking what reference this has to the same as being in the forces. Although I'm sure medals are a good indication as are pieces of paper that say one has a degree but lets not underestimate the 'education' that Jesse Livermore had...He was in amongst the wheelers and dealers of the stock exchanges from the age of 15 years old. Surely this would suffice as an education in the same respect as a man studying wildlife in the jungle from the age of a boy.

What I'm really getting at here is, although people have opinions for which I very much respect and always welcome. It would be unfare in many ways to say that any education in the forces is better than that of university, equally the same the other way round. Both have pro's and con's.

Another point to make is that if one thing is true, both routes will teach patience, dedication to the cause in hand and the proof of end result that one can ride it through til completion with flying colours.

Aston1st said:
I have had the benefit of both an Academic Education and being in the Army. Without doubt the later was far more benefical then the former. The Army is always providing training for it's officers and soldiers every year, these courses are of a practical and theorical nature. Then of course the Operational environment where such theories are placed in the real world.

Uni is fine, but many of the great traders never recieved a University education, it's just that the fashion at the moment is Uni route. Even Jesse Livermore never had an education:LOL:.

An University Education is overrated, but then ignorance is very expensive in the long run :smart:
Click to expand...
 
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