Property Price Boom

Thanks Skim.
I hope you're having a great US day too ;-)

So, from that most esteemed site which everyone should subscribe to, namely moneyam:
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House price minestrone set to continue
Jonas Crosland
It may be too early to predict a slump or a recovery


The UK housing market saga is set to run and run, with each week that passes providing further contradictory evidence on what is actually happening to the price of houses. The temptation is to cherry pick through the facts to underline a particular school of thought. Taking a look at multi-million pound flats in Chelsea will provide a different story to the fortunes of a detached house in the Midlands.

The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) maintains that UK house prices declined in the three months to March, having already fallen in the three months to February, thus providing the first back-to-back fall in prices since 1996.

Its survey for the three months to April is due for release tomorrow, and anecdotal evidence suggests that the report will simply perpetuate the gloom of the previous two.

However, consumer confidence in April was still affected by the Iraq war and the introduction of higher National Insurance contributions. Since then, things may have changed.

Rightmove, the property website, has pointed out that 110,000 properties came on the market in April and the same amount was sold, hardly the behaviour of a market on its knees.

Estate agents on the ground are reporting a rise in transactions, but here again, there is a strong regional element. Rightmove claims that house prices fell 1% between April and May in London, dragged lower by Chelsea and Kensington, while prices in the north of England jumped by 4.4% during the same period.

Some will argue that this is the standard ripple effect spreading out from an overheated market in the South East. However, this time there are differences. The average number of people per household is expected to drop from 2.4 to 2.1 by 2025, while planning permission constraints will continue to strangle the flow of new housing stock. None of this takes into account a rising population, more divorces and more people living on their own.

And to top it all, rising demand will increase the number of new housing completions required each year to 300,000 against a current average of 195,000. Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott wants to see 200,000 new homes in the Thames corridor alone, and where there is demand, it is hard to see values dipping by much.

At the other end of the scale, The UK housing market is set to crash over the coming years with prices falling by up to 20% from their peak, according to research published by economic consultancy Capital Economics.

The real path is likely to be somewhere between the two, but a serious slump in house prices seems unlikely.
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This is an interesting discussion.

We shouldn't forget, nor should we overlook the impact of immigration on the demand for property and hence the price of property in UK.

Britain, in contrast to most of its EU partners, will give full rights of employment and residence to to Poles, Hungarians and citizens of other accession countries, as soon as they join the European Union in May 2004. That's next year!

This, according to Anatole Kaletsky, the Economics Editor of the Times; you can read the full article here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-510972,00.html

If you also accept the fact that we've lost control of our borders, then I think that we can look forward to a large increase in population in the years to come. Whatever it's other merits, this has to be good for property prices in the medium to longer term, and short of a slump and/or a very large in increase in interest rates, then forecasts of a collapse in property prices look overdone to me.

Just a little grist to the mill, :)
 
From Yahoo:

Monday June 23, 06:06 AM
House prices in England and Wales have risen a non-seasonally adjusted 1.3 percent in June to stand 14.0 percent higher than this time last year, property website Rightmove says.

Up again against all the gurus telling us otherwise for the last 10 months.


Paul
 
With interest rate cuts on the way it will accelerate slightly higher...in some areas the gain has been more than rightmoves figures...
 
...well the cut was today, although I expected it last week...time to buy now...
 
"Housing market cooling, says Land Registry
House prices are still rising, but the property boom is most definitely over, according to new official data."

Next move on Interest Rates = Up?
 
It's amazing -seems to keep going up, definetly a case of market adage the"trend is your friend until after the bend".

Any talk of supply constraints is very bull market talk:
Tokyo has very tight supply, as does Hong Kong - HK is down 65% ish from 1998.
Also Japan shows that interest rates don't have to rise to kill a property boom.

But guessing when is a bit more difficult.... :)
 
Shame I didn't fully realise the implications yesterday but I could have made a killing spread betting the house prices :-(

The land registry accidentally released their figures yesterday morning for an hour or two before taking them off the web site (I saw them and wrote them down). The peeps at CityIndex didn't know and so hadn't moved the spreads to allow for the unexpected rise!! Greatest sure thing ever although I don't have a CityIndex account so couldn't have done it even if it had occurred to me that it might be a mistake.

wysi
 
wysi,
IG have spreads on house prices and they haven't moved all week.Still flat today.Hope this sooths the pain a little.
Cheers
 
Guys, to my good fortune i now find myself with the funds to buy property, however i'm not sure the time is right with the housing prices appearing to be about to come off slightly in London and the prospect of rates going up either november or more probably february.. i think the prices may well come down a fair amount early to mid 2004, i would buy then. How do you see the housing market right now ? and what would be your advice re: my timing to buy.
 
Agree with your view, difficult to guess when they will come down, but the stone has dropped in central London and the ripples are at an early stage (ie Berks,Surrey etc).

Depends whether it is to live in or as an investment - if it is the latter I reckon you need to wait for the yield over interest rates to widen, it's way too narrow now.
Our house would yield about 4%, ie barely more than interest rates, but a few years ago it was 3% points higherthan interest rates.
Otherwise it is purely speculative, without the investment being able to wash it's face (unless very small mortgage)

Good luck
 
Prices

Once upon a time in Cornwall, and elsewhere, house prices were linked to the local economy - wages for example.

Now it's linked to what the market will stand because of heavy outsider buying ( retirees and second (spit) home buyers.)

But local wages do not rise to meet the rise in house prices hence an increased migration of younger people from their home counties to other areas.

Cornwall is a case in point - at this time of year many villages are almost devoid of any population. Now Cornwall is a tourist destination and home to the growing army of old gits.

Will things change - I doubt it.

:eek:
 
Thanks for the replies.. the house will be to live in with very little if no mortgage at all. But we are very interested in making a profit on it and moving up the ladder so to speak.
 
...welll if anyone had bought property worth 200K in outer london at the date of beginning of this thread would have made - in right areas - approx 24K....

but we may be in blow off period and market may be in dippy state now....a house sold for 325K was recently offerd for 280k to us.....if we make quick deal...

time to think of selling now I think...
 
Speaking of Property prices,does anyone know of an online resource where we might get these price's in an ohlc bar layout.

Cheers nums
 
zambuck said:
...well if anyone had bought property worth 200K in outer london at the date of beginning of this thread would have made - in right areas - approx 24K....

But if you have to live in it then you need to sell and find somewhere else to live - which will have gone up too. Unless you're willing to cash in the chips and rent then all "profits" are imaginary.
If you want to see a property market that's really bubbled beyond belief (nice alliteration ;)) then Ireland's is worth looking at. The price inflation with respect to wage inflation numbers are incredible. With no easy solution because the ECB has to cut rates- fuelling the flames :eek:.
 
My scenario is not a imaginary one BUT a real life situation that exists...!!!....perhaps need to make clear...I am talking about 'property portfolio' situation, not what you describe above......otherwise your comments are valid..but even then couple of my friends have done exactly that and have moved up the ladder in a very healthy way...

To explain the above situation...on a propery worth 200k 15% was cash down payment, 170K mortgage was fixed at 2% for 2 years (Northern Rock)...the rental income was 650 pounds a month for 1 year...the value of the property is now approx 224k......even after expenses there is a healthy profit...
 
I think shorting could prove profitable. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and at the present time young people are struggling top get on the ladder. There has to be a re-allignment of prices. Buy to let's have over priced the market and although I don't deny that there are still profits to be made it isn't as easy as it once was. The buy to let market will go into decline and the prices will come in line with peoples earnings. Let us not forget the recent introduction of student top fees which will mean most students will graduate with about £20,000 debt, they are not going to be able to get on the property ladder and the market will respond. The property market is overpriced and all the fundamentals point to this, either earnings increase so that people can afford mortages or house prices fall. Its a market after all and what goes up inevitably must come down. So please everyone start shorting, put your house on the market for less than its worth, please I really need to get on the property ladder and this is my only hope. SELL SELL SELL!
 
Even with general UK property market conditions pointing to a top, it doesn't necessarily follow that there will be a bust. The current government wouldn't like to see that. And even an extra half percent on the base rate isn't going to do much more than slow it down.

If anything, I'd take a position on a marked slowdown on increases leading to a prolonged (2-5 years) period of stagnating prices barely keeping up with inflation.
 
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