Professional programmers - the good, the bad and the ugly........

rols said:
Take a look at Forexfactory or forex-tsd.com to see how quickly auto systems come and go.

I have spent over 12K on the services of a very good programmer and learnt a few things in the process.

1. Learn to trade successfully before any thoughts of implementing an ATS otherwise there will be continuous tweaking and layering.

2. Backtesting is only useful in the implementation of the system ie checking the ATS can handle all eventualities. As far as basing future success on previous performance, it's a myth for a myriad of reasons.

3. If you can really define your strategy in terms of mechanical rules then there may be a chance of short term profit. A big 'if' though.

4. Don't blame the programmer for your own shortcomings. Programmers like things to be defined. Treating them like traders is a mistake.

5. Understand the complexity of the task. There's a lot more to it than just buying and selling. For example what if the order is only partially filled, or the stop gets missed, or there is a power cut, or the data feed gets corrupted, or the ATS gets stuck in a loop and keeps adding to positions? All these things I have experienced and worse.

6. You are competing against companies which employ the brightest and the best and have millions of dollars at their disposal. Do you honestly think you can knock up a better and more successful auto-strategy on tradestation and spend the day cruising around your yacht while the money rolls in?
Click to expand...

It depends on your strategy ;)
 
JTrader said:
Yes CV, i agree that it interesting.

But the point is, for some traders, programming code is likely to resemble a menu in a Chinese Retaurant in downtown Beijing :confused: .

A trader is a trader, a programmer is a programmer. I am a trader who has done basic EL programming. A programmer may do some trading, but primarily earns a living through his programming. A programmer may trade for himself the best strategies/idea clients have brought to him.

There are many knowledgeable traders/programmers on TSW for example, but that does not mean that they are very good/successful traders.

A traders focus is on trading, and not on programming. If they can do both then great, but wasting days/months learning a charting applications programming language can be a waste of time IMO - when you may find a reason to change charting platform suppliers at the drop of a hat.........

I want to learn as much about code, and the charting platform as i need to. I do not need to pass a programmer exam in that platforms code/language in order to be a good trader.
Click to expand...


The common bond being "traders" then we look for subset skills...eg mathmatician, programmer, artist , thinker, etc etc...if a programmer for example is left to his own devices ( they like to show off a bit ) you end up with buttons and knobs and glitter...none of it anything to do with whats required..:LOL: ... an artist may be away with the fairies half the time...but can observe from a different perspective....and maybe needs level heads to keep him on track...

you get the idea

cv
 
rols said:
Why not follow the example of our esteemed member WASP?
He did it himself, and suceeded.
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Quite.
Modern programming languages, esp those in charting packages, are easy to use compared to programming in the 1960's when I first started doing programming in Assembler/Cobol/Fortran.
However, here's one lesson many from years of experience, even a good programmer will take twice as long as he/she estimates, often more if in unfamiliar territory.
And who is going to do the testing ? You or the programmer ?
And did you provide a logic flowchart of what you wanted - one which you had dry tested on paper with sample data ?
If programmers do no testing they won't find any bugs and there are always bugs and misunderstandings and assumptions - on the office wall we had written in great big letters "DO NOT ASSUME !"

Don't expect programming to be as easy as trading - lol

Glenn
(fwiw I don't program for other people although I have swapped a few routines occasionally, i.e. this isn't a sales pitch)
 
JTrader said:
I'll probably post this Ukranian programmers website details later, but do feel a bit bad about doing so :( . But at the end of the day, its my time that he has wasted :devilish: ;)
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In any software development project, there's always a tradeoff between Cost, Features, and Timescale. The client gets to pick any 2, and the developer controls the third.

You specified the features you required, and you controlled the cost. If you wanted a faster delivery, you had the option of either paying a decent rate, or simplifying your requirements.

I cant actually believe anyone who only paid $100 could even contemplate complaining about the developer. :eek:
 
zupcon said:
In any software development project, there's always a tradeoff between Cost, Features, and Timescale. The client gets to pick any 2, and the developer controls the third.

You specified the features you required, and you controlled the cost. If you wanted a faster delivery, you had the option of either paying a decent rate, or simplifying your requirements.

I cant actually believe anyone who only paid $100 could even contemplate complaining about the developer. :eek:
Click to expand...

Yet another poster who fails to recognise the issues.

The point is i gave someone the job based on the fact that they said it would take 2-3 working days. If it ends up taking 18 working days for it to do as i want, a process which involves me re-testing each modified version which he sends me, leading to one problem being solved, another problem arising/re-arising - the bloke has not delivered what he said he would - END OF!
A professional programmer with templates ready to work from should be able to deliver my simple EA within 2-3 working hours, and definately 2-3 working days. 18 working days is taking the p**s!

There was no trade off between price, time and copmplexity. He said 2-3 WD - i gave him the job on this basis - END OF!
 
JTrader said:
Yet another poster who fails to recognise the issues.

The point is i gave someone the job based on the fact that they said it would take 2-3 working days. If it ends up taking 18 working days for it to do as i want, a process which involves me re-testing each modified version which he sends me, leading to one problem being solved, another problem arising/re-arising - the bloke has not delivered what he said he would - END OF!
A professional programmer with templates ready to work from should be able to deliver my simple EA within 2-3 working hours, and definately 2-3 working days. 18 working days is taking the p**s!

There was no trade off between price, time and copmplexity. He said 2-3 WD - END OF!
Click to expand...

QED! (Again, depressingly)
 
PS. will people who don't have a clue about the subject at hand, stop replying to my threads! Thanks :D

PS. I've decided to let him off the hook and not expose him as an incompetent programmer. I'm kind like that!
 
A Dashing Blade said:
Sorry JT, I'm also in the "you paid peanuts and got a monkey" camp.
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Maybe you're right. But in an area where you have no guarantee that paying more will equal a better job done, i'd rather pay peanuts and take my chances, than pay someone £50 per hour and encounter the same problem.

At least the kid got the job done to my satisfaction at the end of the day, albeit after a lot of wasted time/effort.

As i said, its not like theres a Michelin review centre for MQL4 programmers, where you can form an opinion of who is good & who is not beforehand is it. THAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS THREAD!
 
Any further Posts On This Thread That Do Not Involve People Providing Details Of Programming Services That Did Or Didn't Do A Good Job For Them In Coding Their Strategy/indicators, Or People Responding To Specific named Examples Of Programming Services That Did Or Didn't Do A Good Job For someone In Coding Their Strategy/indicators, Should Be Viewed As An Off Topic Post And Can Be Deleted By A Moderator As Far As I Am Concerned.
I did not name the programming service that i used. Therefore any further posts responding to my programming example, should be viewed as off-topic, deliberate thread derailing posts.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
JTrader said:
Any further Posts On This Thread That Do Not Involve People Providing Details Of Programming Services That Did Or Didn't Do A Good Job For Them In Coding Their Strategy/indicators, Or People Responding To Specific named Examples Of Programming Services That Did Or Didn't Do A Good Job For someone In Coding Their Strategy/indicators, Should Be Viewed As An Off Topic Post And Can Be Deleted By A Moderator As Far As I Am Concerned.
I did not name the programming service that i used. Therefore any further posts responding to my programming example, should be viewed as off-topic, deliberate thread derailing posts.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=24667
 
Antagonistic threads

Guys

Cool it on this thread otherwise I will issue infractions

Charlton
 
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