Price

[wasp]

Agreed. Ok, all the market info a trader could ever get his hands on, an apparent aladins cave, but, do think some smarty pants could just turn round and say...."so what, you have all this info, but look at the chart.....it's all there, being played out right in front of your eyes."?

I think all the info is there in the chart, the OHLC and its relation to key levels. The actions between OHLC and the blending of timeframes and the relation to time all indicate what is happening enough to really be in tune.

Understanding all this and putting it to use is not as easy.......! Or is it?!

 

[wasp]

Time to read between the lines

So established is the cliche old and trodden path of 'support and resistance' and 'HrH and HrL's' etc but what more is there to read from the actions that delve deeper and tell more of a story?

 

[wasp]

Without a single line, HrH or LrH or thought to time, what can be understood by seeing what happens in each candle and how it is forming?

Strength, weakness, hard and fast, sideways.......... all clues




(I'll add mine later!)

 

[bbmac]

Support and Resistance is the one constant across all time frames, and across all trader classes. Classic price peak/valley analysis on the 1hr+ time frames (as these contain the market participants/volume that move the markets) and then factor in some fibs will tell you the potential areas, add then individual/small group patterns of candlesticks analysis and you have pretty much got it.

The supp/res tells us what the market did historically and may do again, the candlestick analysis of price action gives us a possible heads up as to what it might do again, ie you can summarise this as 2 essential types of price action analysis

a. overall price action (peak/valley analysis for determining trend, adding in fibs to the aforegoing to determine potential supp/res/sbr/rbs poptential)

-and-

b. individual/small group candlestick analysis.

The more proficient you get at this, the easier it becomes to apply it, even on the smaller sub 1hr time frames.

 

[bbmac]

what can be understood by seeing what happens in each candle and how it is forming?

I'm not convinced that you can really tell anything from a candlestick until it is formed...unless of course you drop down a time frame and look at what's going on within it??

 

[wasp]

I'm not convinced that you can really tell anything from a candlestick until it is formed...unless of course you drop down a time frame and look at what's going on within it??

To show on a BB it will need to be mixed TF as can only show what's been but a lot can be understood from watching a 60minute candle form I think and I will try and explain myself later as getting a tad busy atm.

 

[rags2riches]

Fun and games

1hr chart of usdchf

 

[firewalker99]

Without a single line, HrH or LrH or thought to time, what can be understood by seeing what happens in each candle and how it is forming?

For that purpose, it would be better to post a "slideshow", or if possible even a movie, than a static picture. If you can see the candles or bars or whatever form in real time, you'll get a much better sense of the flow imo.

 

[barjon]

the discussion relating to stops has been moved and is here: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/price-volume/41820-price-stops.html

 

[wasp]

the discussion relating to stops has been moved and is here: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/price-volume/41820-price-stops.html

Cheers Barjon.

For that purpose, it would be better to post a "slideshow", or if possible even a movie, than a static picture. If you can see the candles or bars or whatever form in real time, you'll get a much better sense of the flow imo.

Nice idea and if I have the time, I will, but whilst I have positions, static analysis is it for now I'm afraid. Probably tomorrow too now.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Then sit back and do nothing for days, weeks, months until the next opportunity strikes.

Time is just the interval until the next trade. It has nothing to do with how much you will earn.

so right !
nowadays I only actively day-trade one instrument (ES) but have the weekly charts for gold, oil, EC & Z (FTSE) set up with pre-determined triggers with pre-set audio alerts. If the alerts sound off, I swing into action, if not, que sera, I'll try again next week ....

 

[hwsteele]

This intrigues and amazes me. I know the 24 candle distance on cable over last 2 weeks has played in tune with the rejections of resistance and again at a temporary swing point in conjunction with LrH, but it also comfortably just coincides well with US opening so the blend of the EU/UK/US bank traders, thus making it a busy time.

Another thing, is 24 the key or does it change, and if so, how do you know when early enough to take advantage from it? I know you said you look at time more than price but one without solid info from the other seems to be shooting oneself in the foot.

Sorry, but I am just a sceptical git at times but not to say not interested.

You ask if 24 is the key or does it change. If you look at the fact that we are dealing with an hour chart it's not hard to see why 24 would show up as a main cycle. It's the daily cycle. As such I believe it is most likely one of the strongest "keys" for this market.
By no means is it the only "key" look and you will see 21 shows up allot also.

Your next question was "how do you know when early enough to take advantage from it?"
Before I answer that let me deal with the third thing you talked about(I know you said you look at time more than price but one without solid info from the other seems to be shooting oneself in the foot.) first as it will help answer number 2.

My trading method follows this "basic" path:
1: I look at price to learn about time in that market.
2: I use time to know when to start looking at price again.
3: When time is up I watch price.
4: If price is doing what I expected I enter the trade.
5: If price is not doing what I expected I go back to step two.
6: If price is not doing what I expected more than twice in a row I go back to step one.

The only reason I say time is MORE important than price is because time is what I use to keep from over trading. (not the only thing but by far the biggest)
You are right, price and time work hand in hand.
So to be completely honest in the over all picture they are equal. It is up to the individual trader as to which is more important to them and their style of trading. For me it is time.

Now the answer to:"how do you know when early enough to take advantage from it?"

The chart that I posted last actually gives an example of how to do just that.
Find a good price pivot on the chart and then count out 24 candles. Almost every time the 24th candle shows up ON a price pivot the market turns. The entry signal, stops, and take profit would be up to each trader as every body is different.
At some times it takes only a few candles to see a main price pivot show up so in those cases you know to start looking at the price action again at the end of the 24 time count.
Others take longer but work the same.
I have to say I have enjoyed this thread very much! It's nice to talk with people who know of what they speak.
I believe I will start a thread this weekend on time.

 

[wasp]

You ask if 24 is the key or does it change. If you look at the fact that we are dealing with an hour chart it's not hard to see why 24 would show up as a main cycle. It's the daily cycle. As such I believe it is most likely one of the strongest "keys" for this market.
By no means is it the only "key" look and you will see 21 shows up allot also.

Cheers. This is what I suspected but just wanted to check rather than assume.

Your next question was "how do you know when early enough to take advantage from it?"
Before I answer that let me deal with the third thing you talked about(I know you said you look at time more than price but one without solid info from the other seems to be shooting oneself in the foot.) first as it will help answer number 2.

My trading method follows this "basic" path:
1: I look at price to learn about time in that market.
2: I use time to know when to start looking at price again.
3: When time is up I watch price.
4: If price is doing what I expected I enter the trade.
5: If price is not doing what I expected I go back to step two.
6: If price is not doing what I expected more than twice in a row I go back to step one.

The only reason I say time is MORE important than price is because time is what I use to keep from over trading. (not the only thing but by far the biggest)
You are right, price and time work hand in hand.
So to be completely honest in the over all picture they are equal. It is up to the individual trader as to which is more important to them and their style of trading. For me it is time.

I can totally see your point and see how, now, that it worked out nicely and was a key turning point. I am intrigued but part of me always has second thoughts. I see exactly how it works and think its a great theory but I shall explain my skepticism in essentially, restricting myself...

In January last year, I went to New Zealand for 6 months. I had been day trading cable and things were going well till Christmas. I wasn't swing trading, rather in and out between 7am and 5pm UK time. When I went, I knew it meant trading overnight and was willing to make the sacrifice, and did. Anyhow, for the entire breadth of that month, the days were mediocre and the Asian session blinding! I was fuming to say the least.

Looking at things from your time POV, I should have seen things differently but ever since then, I have swung rather than day traded and thus, I make myself available to the charts 24/5 as I just don't like restricting myself to 'it should happen here' only to find it happen only when I don't look! (ie theorists say cable moves best at 6-8am UK time... then it moves best for a month at 11am!)

Whilst I am not about to change my ways, it certainly is a different perspective that has my attention so thanks for the posts.

Now the answer to:"how do you know when early enough to take advantage from it?"

The chart that I posted last actually gives an example of how to do just that.
Find a good price pivot on the chart and then count out 24 candles. Almost every time the 24th candle shows up ON a price pivot the market turns. The entry signal, stops, and take profit would be up to each trader as every body is different.
At some times it takes only a few candles to see a main price pivot show up so in those cases you know to start looking at the price action again at the end of the 24 time count.
Others take longer but work the same.

Its uncanny and before, I would just put this down to the fact its the UK/EU Session but now I will look more closely. Thanks.

I have to say I have enjoyed this thread very much! It's nice to talk with people who know of what they speak.
I believe I will start a thread this weekend on time.

I too, its great that discussion boards like this exist allowing open minded traders to share thoughts, ideas and viewpoints to hopefully help each other and others understand and see more, or a different view.

I'd be interested in a septate thread and also any posts you could make in MrGeckos JCNC social group.

 

[hwsteele]

Cheers.
I can totally see your point and see how, now, that it worked out nicely and was a key turning point. I am intrigued but part of me always has second thoughts. I see exactly how it works and think its a great theory but I shall explain my skepticism in essentially, restricting myself...

In January last year, I went to New Zealand for 6 months. I had been day trading cable and things were going well till Christmas. I wasn't swing trading, rather in and out between 7am and 5pm UK time. When I went, I knew it meant trading overnight and was willing to make the sacrifice, and did. Anyhow, for the entire breadth of that month, the days were mediocre and the Asian session blinding! I was fuming to say the least.

If you has used 24 as a key time pivot in those trading sessions and started your 24 count from main price pivots and If the asian session was that wild then most likely most of the main price pivots would have been happening during it. So more likely than not your 24 counts would be coming out where they needed to to keep you in the "action".

I would be more than happy to make some posts in MrGeckos JCNC social group.
I have a bit much on my plate right now so it MIGHT take a few days but in the mean time I will keep watching to see what others post.

 

[hwsteele]

Just to let all of you guys know I started a new thread called "Time".

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/price-volume/42118-time.html

I will be making regular posts there for a while to explain how I personally use time in trading.
This way we can keep this threads namesake true.

 

[koolblue]

At what point has price reversed? And would you wait for the trend reversal to be confirmed to enter? Several points annotated... you can call them what you want or do with the chart whatever you feel like. I've removed time, date, instrument and price levels because they are irrelevant: price is price.

:clap:

 

[koolblue]

At what point has price reversed? And would you wait for the trend reversal to be confirmed to enter? Several points annotated... you can call them what you want or do with the chart whatever you feel like. I've removed time, date, instrument and price levels because they are irrelevant: price is price.

:clap: