Own Up All Spreadbettors Making £1K to £2K per Month at £1 to £2 per Point

[FTSE Beater]

Hi all

Looks like I've opened a can of worms


Hi Oldun - Yes it is me, the same, one and only, and mildly specital you should be. I did it once, but down to my own stupidity at times, I couldn't do it again. All comes back to MONEY MANAGEMENT!!!


Hi Spreadbet - My apologies to you and anyone else who choices to spreadbet over a long period of time. In my defense though I did say "rarely spreadbets for long" .

Why you don't move onto futures I don't know, but as you say safety of guaranteed stops make it a safe and obviously a better trading vehicle for you. Horses for courses

Good trading is good trading irrespective of the traders preferred instrument.

I couldn't agree more, and again I apologies to those good traders who choice spreadbetting over other forms of trading


Hi Trader333

I take your point, but I just wanted to say that it is possible. (as no-one else seemed to say it was)

 

[spreadbet]

FTSE Beater

Many thanks, my reasons for staying away from the futures are described above, perhaps they are silly but there we go.

Cheers

spreadbet

 

[spreadbet]

Hi wayno

Nice to meet you. I would be interested in that formula if you could get it to me. At the moment I only trade the Dow index but who knows what the future may hold. It may help me to plan a strategy for campaigns that are still to come.

cheers

spreadbet

 

[smileypete]

It should be possible to limit losses with cheap 'out of the money' options, (I'd expect the spreadbet companies use these to hedge guaranteed stop losses!) The advantage of options is that they can be retained until expiry whereas a guaranteed stop loss has to be paid for every time a trade is placed.

 

[Zenda]

Is it really that difficult!

Less than an hour to find ! - Let it run etc ! Now thats a 325 pt move on just one selected USA share! - Held for 3 days stops moved to lock in profits as share rose.

 

[Trader333]

What was the date that this trade was opened and closed ?


Paul

 

[Zenda]

Opened 21st (Last Monday) closed 24/07/03 (Last Thursday)as seen on picture- I will not repeat this excercise again for the benefit of some cynical comment. You can make substantial points gains trading US stocks not UK on finspreads. I try not to hold more than one Share at a time - I use stops etc - and I may leave the position open from 1 to 6 days- I research the stocks and actually spend far less than an hour a day. However I may spend 4 or 5 hours at a weekend or one evening once a week. At present I'm long Sept. on CAT holding 90 points profit with a stop which I have moved so I am in a (No Loss situation) should the share drop. I anticipate more potential by Thursday this week. - I trade part time. JB

 

[Zenda]

Just to prove

Just in case you didn't believe me this is NOW.

 

[skidog41]

Well gentlemen John B has just posted proof for the answering of your question can it be done. The teacher can teach and do as well.

Sidinuk shame on you for jumping on this band wagon of negativity. Why you were just posting on his forum as of Nov. 2002 and I do believe after reading your posts you congratulated John for his honesty and accomplishment.

I think a little less consideration for someones claim and a little more discussion about trading is what this forum should be doing.

 

[spreadbet]

Well done John B, I apologies for seeming skeptical. I hope both trades make you a bundle. Not only did I question could a punter make a grand a month consistently at £1 to £2 I also questioned was it possible in the time frame. Wrong on both counts.

I have a question about finspreads if I may. A friend has told me that if he has three wining trades in sucession then his account is frozen until those three trades have been investigated. Would you know if this is policy at finspreads.

Cheers

spreadbet

Cheers

spreadbet

 

[Helenqu]

JohnB,

It's really good to see examples of styles of trading other than the usual index/futures. Please do continue to post and don't be put off. I think there are many people who can't because of work etc trade very actively intraday, in fact they are probably in the majority on this board

A couple of questions:

I thought Fins didn't allow stops on stakes less than £2, has that changed?
Is Fins better than D4F for US stocks?

Cheers

 

[davelong]

John,

Very pleased you have given an illustration of your trading, I really do not understand why, at times, people can have such an inflexible and closed minded attitude, especially when lacking information about the subject thay are decrying.
It is very frustrating trying to give an unbiased view in answer to a genuine enquiry from another board member and to then have the thread hijacked by experienced members to use for a few cheap jokes and general slagging. For most novices the end result is total confusion and probably end up believing something that is not true.

Skidog41, I also seemed to remember Sidinuk posting on JB's website so I looked back through the old posts yesterday.
Don't know why Sidinuk has had such a dramatic change of opinion.

regards to all

David

 

[Finlayson]

John B

well done for posting this. I try to be very open minded about all claims until I understand them

I have a few questions if u dont mind me asking, not being cynical , would just like to know:

do u have risk :reward for each trade when it is initially opened?
is this different for each trade depending on the fundamentals of the trade?.........but is there is basic R:R u will stick to i.e 3:1, 2:1 ???

how Many trades on average would u expect this strategy to give u p/month......roughly of course ??

could u put a success rate on your strategy i.e 50:50 ........better or worse ??

is the Knowledge u used in assesing these trades included in the course (CD & course) & is it easily learned. ??


Now the cynical questions :

if u have total confidence in your trades & system why the £1 stake , was this done for our benefit, or is this what U trade ??

what is the association With u & finspreads???, not knocking SB's as I use them myself, what I just cant get my head round Is SB company wanting to teach people how to be very successful. I would of thought it would make sound business sense for them to ,'let u win a few' .........but to ultimatly 'lose'..........just like a casino does.

hope u dont mind answering these, not trying to knock your system. I know it is possible to profit with SB's.

& if your claims r true, then it is worth knowing

thanks

Jay

 

[Trader333]

John,

You have a habit of jumping to conclusions, the reason I asked the dates was nothing to do with whether I believed you placed the trade it was all to do with what the Intra-day drawdown on this trade would have been.

In this case you opened a trade at 50.32 the market fell to 49.31 on 22/07 which is a drawdown of 101 points plus whatever the spread would have been.

So where was your stop loss set ? clearly more than 100 points away plus the spread. This is only 1 trade and 1 trade a thousand points doth not make. If you are placing stops at such great distances away then I know from personal experience that it doesnt take many losing trades to be down a great deal of money and would require your strike rate to be very high to recover from this.

So far on this thread we have had one person (FTSE Beater) who has said that he managed to make the figures you suggest but not consistently and Chartman who has said that that the Dow had given up an easy 500 plus 200 points in recent times. You have given one example of a trade where you made 300+ points. I can give numerous examples of successful trades and then conveniently not disclose my losing ones and this is a marketing method used by the likes of Mr Stanzioni.

To convince me I would need to know that this can be done month in and month out and so far there is a lack of people saying it can and a lack of substantial evidence to back it up and bear in mind this was all about a beginner achieving this and not an experienced trader.

I dont doubt the quality of your course and have heard much good feedback from it and if asked I would recommend that beginners take it. But this thread is not about the quality of your course it is specifically about the ability to make the money claimed with the very low stakes used.


Paul

 

[Finlayson]

Fair point,

I remember one particular trade on the DAX where I was filled short on stop entry, the market dropped so quick it filled my exit limit in secs........for +30........came back up & filled my stop 'long' & I had no choice but to ride the second trade out for another +21.....good day , my weeks target in 20-30 secs, total 'fluke'.....the spreadbet company tried to deny me the trade saying 'their system' generated some wrong figures...........luckily my datafeed said otherwise.

my point is this happened quite a lot in my early days, these trades would look good on paper, but were total guesses..

not saying yours are John B , at all, just that we could all post a few good results. would be better to see some 'basis' from the strategy & some 'net ' month records, if u want to convince people ???. even if it isn't 1000 p/p month, net + results would speak for themselves & impress

anyway will shut up now I give u chance to reply

regards

Jay

 

[Bigbusiness]

Well said Paul,

A draw down of 100 points could make a lot of novice traders close their position for a loss. An experienced trader would probably have a tighter stop loss. Holding on to a position hoping it will turn around is not what I would call stress free trading.

There is a 36 point spread on Sep. Invitrogen at the moment. Finspreads have large spreads and I prefer Deal4free for US trading.

 

[JonnyT]

If you are position/swing trading then you have to set your stops accordingly. A share going from 50.32 to 49.31 is fine in my opinion.

You cannot compare such trades to the tight stops required for day trading.

For instance I have an ES system that allow's 50 points move against my position. It has a 77% win rate, average trade $300 (6 points net) profit and trades on average 1 time per week. This has been backtested over 4 years.

It has never had more than 2 losing trades in a row and is always in the market. Current trade is short from 988.75 a few days ago.

JonnyT

 

[Trader333]

JonnyT,

I was not saying that daytrading is comparable to position trading but I do have a question for you on your strategy ?

How profitable would it be if

1) You had to factor in the equivalent of a 36 point spread ?

2) With this spread your losing trades would be the equivalent of 86 points ie 50 + 36

3) Your winning trades also have to have the equivalent of 36 points knocked off.

I would be surprised if you still come out in profit with the above conditions.

I know that D4F is better but the above trading example was with Finspread.


Paul

 

[Zenda]

Wow thanks for the support I just don't have the time to answer all the questions - But a couple - Stop was 100 points (not further) It did come close within a few points. You can see I like a healthy distance from trade but that depends on Kitty size. Sometimes finspread do not stop ou out (but thats another subject)

Finspreads do not cancel winners (They allow stops on £1 and above)- My arrangement with them is to offer students £100 into their accounts for attending my day workshop, obviously I benefit from this bonus in publicity only - I nor clickevents benefit financially from our association. I use them simply because for spreadbetting I find them and the trading platform - the best.

I am not saying that this is the only way I trade - just one of them, and the one I teach on my workshop- Other questions please email me personally - I have a workshop tomorrow - it may take a few days. I have been known to trade during the day - the following trades are illustrated on my CD - I traded the indexes for 7 days earlier this year. However the real money (£250 pw plus) is better made dealing in shares. But then again I do not rely on trading for a living! If I did would my attitude and style change?

Oh and yes about half or less of my trades fail but then its down to 100% money managment. I trade what I see not what I feel!

 

[Bigbusiness]

That is strange. Your stop was 100points, you were 101points down at one point, with half the spread that would be 119 points down. The there is the legendary spreadbet bias. Why wasn't your stop loss triggered?

Does anyone have data or an intra-day chart so that we can check the numbers Paul has indicated?