optiver vs group1

[liquidrarni]

au959
I agree with you on the recruitment strategy, at Liquid we have hired Tibra staff, and Tibra have hired Liquid Staff.
Its not at all like you’re taking on bad traders We have had graduates who have been knocked back at Optiver but have been some of our most credential traders. People don’t pass the exams for different reasons.

 

[Suly11]

au959
do u kno if ther is scope within optiver to move from a risk management position to a trading role? I have received an offer for a risk mgmt position. I have applied to tibra and would love to work there but have heard nothing from HR as of yet.

 

[sarah williams]

who are the founding members at Tibra Australia or senior executives or similar?

 

[N Rothschild]

au959, if you want top traders your shooting yourself in the foot with those rediculas test papers. i took them last year and failed miserably..im sorry but you DONT need that kind of maths skill to be a good trader. If my test result was an indication of how i trade i would be up **** creek with no paddle, but that is not the case. I even spoke with one of the girls at the end about this due to the fact i was surrounded by graduates who had no clue about trading, but because they had a masters in maths does that mean they would be better than myself or any of the other non maths minded traders? She didn't seem to interested so i guess so i can only presume Tibra isnt really intrested in hiring traders who can actually trade, only people who are good at maths.

Deffo on Tibra

 

[42* S]

au959, if you want top traders your shooting yourself in the foot with those rediculas test papers. i took them last year and failed miserably..im sorry but you DONT need that kind of maths skill to be a good trader. If my test result was an indication of how i trade i would be up **** creek with no paddle, but that is not the case. I even spoke with one of the girls at the end about this due to the fact i was surrounded by graduates who had no clue about trading, but because they had a masters in maths does that mean they would be better than myself or any of the other non maths minded traders? She didn't seem to interested so i guess so i can only presume Tibra isnt really intrested in hiring traders who can actually trade, only people who are good at maths.

Deffo on Tibra

This is what happens when you let HR muppets get involved , personally I did a deg in economics it had absolutley no bearing what so ever on my trading career that started some 15 yrs ago .

The nnotion that you need a degree in astro .... is ...ap , does not mean you will make it as a trader . Yo may be a rocket scientist , and be a hopeless trader .
I know of a guy who I sat next to a few years ago who had gone through uni on 3 seperate occasions on full scholarships etc , he was a useless trader . Good in theory but no good when push came to shove.

Admitted a degree of inteligence is required but your maths ability is not as impotant as they would like you to think .:smart:

 

[au959]

Our testing was designed by our traders, not our HR team. We are pretty flexible copared to most employers (a degree is just a guide to your overall ability to learn - we dont sc reen out people without one, and a PHD is certainly not a prerequisite, nor are freakish maths skills.

a lower than benchmark result on our testing does not mean you cant be a good trader. it just means you are less likely to be able to trade with our style, our systems and our strategies (which we prefer). we would be crazy to think our tests can determine overall trading ability...keep in mind, there are many types of traders, that posess and require many different skill sets...so dont stress it if you dont fit the tibra mould...many dont and still make a great living...

i agree 100% that a rocket scientist academically, doesnt make a good trader without certain personality traits, approaches and attitudes

we do make exceptions for certain people depending on their skills and experience, but the majority of our recruitment is geared towards graduates who dont come with bad habits!

if you think our benchmark marks are too high, you have to realise that we have applications from all over the world so we can afford to set a high standard...

but the testing is not the be all and end all, we still interview at 2-3 stages...so the maths score is just one aspect of the process...

 

[42* S]

Our testing was designed by our traders, not our HR team. We are pretty flexible copared to most employers (a degree is just a guide to your overall ability to learn - we dont sc reen out people without one, and a PHD is certainly not a prerequisite, nor are freakish maths skills.

a lower than benchmark result on our testing does not mean you cant be a good trader. it just means you are less likely to be able to trade with our style, our systems and our strategies (which we prefer). we would be crazy to think our tests can determine overall trading ability...keep in mind, there are many types of traders, that posess and require many different skill sets...so dont stress it if you dont fit the tibra mould...many dont and still make a great living...

i agree 100% that a rocket scientist academically, doesnt make a good trader without certain personality traits, approaches and attitudes

we do make exceptions for certain people depending on their skills and experience, but the majority of our recruitment is geared towards graduates who dont come with bad habits!

if you think our benchmark marks are too high, you have to realise that we have applications from all over the world so we can afford to set a high standard...

but the testing is not the be all and end all, we still interview at 2-3 stages...so the maths score is just one aspect of the process...

I agree with the guts of your argument , you have to have a screening process . I suppose what I am trying to emphasise is that the need to have multiple distinctions in maths is probably a little overdone .

You do need quick numercical skills to a point , but the key determining factor is to be able to analyze and process something rather quickly ( depending on trading style obviously ). I have always been focused on Short term timeframes so this has been crucial.

A degree must be seen as an entry only not necesarily the panacea . There is no substitute for hours in front of the order book and repetition to get a feel for the market.

Generally I feel that Optiver is probably focused on getting that type of new start , rather than a performance based Prop deal. Which is fine because not every participant / trader is the same . Correct me if I am wrong .

 

[N Rothschild]

Our testing was designed by our traders, not our HR team. We are pretty flexible copared to most employers (a degree is just a guide to your overall ability to learn - we dont sc reen out people without one, and a PHD is certainly not a prerequisite, nor are freakish maths skills.

a lower than benchmark result on our testing does not mean you cant be a good trader. it just means you are less likely to be able to trade with our style, our systems and our strategies (which we prefer). we would be crazy to think our tests can determine overall trading ability...keep in mind, there are many types of traders, that posess and require many different skill sets...so dont stress it if you dont fit the tibra mould...many dont and still make a great living...

i agree 100% that a rocket scientist academically, doesnt make a good trader without certain personality traits, approaches and attitudes

we do make exceptions for certain people depending on their skills and experience, but the majority of our recruitment is geared towards graduates who dont come with bad habits!

if you think our benchmark marks are too high, you have to realise that we have applications from all over the world so we can afford to set a high standard...

but the testing is not the be all and end all, we still interview at 2-3 stages...so the maths score is just one aspect of the process...

out of all the questions there wasn't many that any chart/trading platform woudlt be doing for you automatically anyway. perhaps the tibra mehod is hardcore no calculators lol

 

[traderboi29]

Hi au959,

so your saying that just because someone don't pass the required mark they you are less likely to be able to trade with your style, your systems and your strategies ?! i don't think that is necessary true because if someone don't pass it don't mean they wont trade the way you want, it just means they aren't good at sitting tests.........again, a grad with a masters doesn't make him a good trader.

you also say you make exceptions for certain people depending on their skills and experience,
so when do you decide this? is this after they have done the test and have failed?
and have you considered testing for non-grads?

i come from a sales background where i am constantly under pressure to perform and hit targets, hence i have develop discipline and focus and not to mention tenacity, perseverance and drive. i excel and perform well when i am in a live environment where i am forced to learn quick or sink. i have decide to move into trading as i have a passion for it ever since i traded with IG index last year. However i have applied to over 70 places and not even a phone call, just because i don't fit the typical criteria

now what i want to know is what chance do i have of work for TIBRA? i mean i probably wont even make it to the testing stage, and if i did i probably will fail as i have never been one to do written tests, however if you give me 4 weeks training and with abit of trial and error, i am quite confident that i can become a successful trader........so how about giving us non grads a genuine chance? you might be surprised with what may pop up. how about interviewing candidates who genuinely want to become traders and then putting them on a training course with the first 3 months without pay, that way, not only will you get people who really want to be there but also you get to see how the trainees react in a live environment.

i genuinely believe that have the skills, ambition and drive to succeed as a trader, however it seems no one is willing to give us non grads a chance

 

[RtG34]

au959,

Great to hear directly from the co-founder.

What is your position on people applying to work in a country not theirs? I'm finishing an MA and can't wait to get out of the UK and the cold... would I be able to fit in your Sidney or HK office? Would it be a disadvantage? Are you hiring entry-level in these regions?

Thanks,

RtG

 

[forevergalaxy]

im a graduate student looking for a trading job! i just found this on youtube and would like to share to anyone who interested! enjoy!
YouTube - OptiverTV's Channel

 

[Technically Fundamental]

In relation to the original thread as far as I'm aware, Tibra have those maths test and prefer highly numerate people because they're mainly arb.