OctaFx: How a Dealing Desk Broker can cheat you with Automatic Slippage

[foix]

After the Broker "investigation" closing, 3 days ago I have written another email to him (copy attached), trying to reach a reasonable agreement, but, it was only a test, because, as I could imagine, ****** continue to avoid to answer me. (Obviously ****** was also rewarded by Fx Empire as "Best Customer Service Broker" !)
Then I have invited again the Broker in his ****** Rep, community member page and also in his specific Broker thread, in order to receive his final answer to my complaint (image attached).
In the meanwhile, I would like to reiterate my position for the last time, in order to be 100% clear with him:

1) The Broker has publicly declared that the investigation against me is concluded and that all my trading activity was totally regular, so that all my profit has been legitimized

2) Since he has forcibly closed my trading account, now I expect that he completes all my withdrawal requests in compliance with his own Customer Agreement (Why... he can investigate me in order to verify if I'm in compliance of his Customer Agreement, while, at the same time, he can peacefully goes in total breach of his own rules?):
"13.5. If the Client requests to withdraw funds from the Trading Account, the Company shall pay the specified amount within three (3) Business Days once the request has been accepted......
......****** does not limit the amount you can withdraw or deposit into your account. The deposit amount is unlimited, and the withdrawal amount should not exceed free margin.
....However, it is advised to deposit and withdraw all of the funds in one request to avoid unnecessary delays in processing"

3) ****** claims to have e-wallet limits that impede him to complete my big requests in a short time and that he can pay me only 5000€ a week (total silence from PaySafe about this absurd statement !)
In fact the strange thing is that, while I was loosing money, ****** had never showed problems to complete my withdrawal requests for amount by far bigger than 5000€ (for example... look at the 2 images attached....2 my withdrawal requests 15000€ worth, completed in few hours without any problem).

4) ****** asked me to split my withdrawal requests in several little 5000€ worth each, due to his payments limit.... otherwise he will be unable to pay me back my money.
To think about it.....OK... I can do it, no problem (I have just done it in his client area...look at the twenty 5000€ requests with Neteller.... image attached)
If he prefers to pay me with Skrill, even if I have previously used Neteller to deposit...no problem again..he can use Skrill (I have submitted another twenty 5000€ requests with Skrill ...image attached)
But.... anyway.... (he has all the amount possibilities he wants with Neteller and Skrill...look at 2 other images attached)...whatever way he wants .....all my money still blocked in the closed trading account ...should be payed me back in 3 business days from the request submission date, in compliance with his Customer Agreement......why I have to accept only one 5000€ request payed a week for 20 weeks - 5 months???!!! What right has he ....to do it?
If he has e-wallets limits and he can't do it with Neteller or Skrill, he can simply refuse these e- payment methods and proceed with a Bank transfer, since this possibility is contemplated by his own Customer Agreement (I have already provided to him my Bank details 2 months ago, without any answer):
"...... In exceptional cases (such as Force Majeure circumstances, termination of payment system operation, etc) Company is entitled to decline Client’s funds withdrawal in this payment system.
....in some cases the Company reserves a right to withdraw Client’s funds only to his/her bank account."

5) Despite these money are only profit for me, I need to get them back immediately, in order to resume my trading activity with another Broker, since I accrued losses with other Brokers while I was winning with ******.
And however...because....it's only my right!

6) If the Broker continues to refuse to pay me back all my money immediately, this constitutes a clear FRAUD (and not a simple client/broker dispute, as PaySafe, with very bad faith, continues to support), since the Broker doesn't have any legal justification to impose me his 5 months refund plan time-frame, after having legitimized all my trading activity.

Finally, if ****** continues with this fraudulent behavior, I consider myself fully scammed.
I will give him a couple more days to communicate me his final decision, after that, there is nothing left for me to do, and I will file the case to the FPA Traders Court for publicly voting.

 

[foix]

No answer from the Broker yet.
Evidently he has no arguments to justify a similar fraudulent behavior.
This sounds as a public admission to be only a Scam Broker !!!

 

[foix]

The Broker answer:

Dear foixx,

Thank you for your further feedback.

As explained before, your funds are and will continue to be withdrawn. We checked your account and confirm that your last withdrawal request has been successfully processed last week.

Unfortunately, we are bound by a limitation. And section 13.9 to which you’re referring to does not apply in your case, as we already began paying out your funds, and consequently, there is no reason to suspect your funds insecurity.

We invite you to address our customer support for any further enquiries, as they will be more than happy to help.

Once again, we wish to emphasise our company's irreproachable reputation and transparency towards its traders and thank the FPA community for their support.

Kind regards,
****** Rep.

 

[foix]

Dear ******,
I think that by now it's pretty clear for all readers what is your real misleading nature !
Would you like to be so kind to explain me these points in detail, please:

1. Where are your e-wallet withdrawal limits specified in your web site or client agreement.....since you claim:
"the Company shall pay the specified amount within three (3) Business Days once the request has been accepted......
......****** does not limit the amount you can withdraw or deposit into your account."

2. Can you explain these another my 3 withdrawal requests (images attached) 15.000€ worth, completed with no problems in March, April and June.... before I started to win in July?
Where were your e-wallet (max 5000€ weekly) limitations in those cases?

3. And for example....why, in the same way, you never payed me these 2 withdrawal requests, not of 15000€ but only 10.000€ worth (images attached), submitted after my winnings in August and still pending nowadays.....after 2 months......oh! ...sure ....in this case "you are bound by a limitation !"

4. You said: "We checked your account and confirm that your last withdrawal request has been successfully processed last week."
......and all the other my withdrawal Neteller requests, dated 1 September....more than 1 month ago? (image attached)

5. You said: "Unfortunately, in exceptional cases where our e-wallet limitations clash with the existing high demand, we kindly ask our traders to resubmit their withdrawal requests in smaller amounts"
OK, I have accepted....2 days ago I have submitted 20 withdrawal requests 5000€ each with Skrill and 20 with Neteller.
And then...you kindly ask your traders also to wait 5 months and not 3 business days, to get them payed?
Tomorrow is the third business day after the submission requests.....when are you going to pay me all these requests?

6. You said: "We invite you to address our customer support for any further enquiries, as they will be more than happy to help."
Your gall never ceases to surprise me ....really !!!
You have stopped to answer me to every my email since more than 2 months and now you wrote.....they will be more than happy to help !!!........really very funny! (attached my last email, that you continue to avoid to answer, despite this my FPA thread and your false availability declarations)

7. I think that you should to convince all the FPA readers that your "e-wallet limitations", that you use to avoid to pay me all my money back, are not only an excuse.
Then, please, feel free to post your proofs about....a specific point of your Customer Agreement, a page of your web site....whatever you want.
The question is: what right have you to impose me these your 5000€ a week for 20 weeks - 5 months refund plan time-frame? Can you demonstrate this your right?

I'm going to post this reply also in your specific Broker thread, so you can't avoid to see it.
I look forward your answer, even if it will be in the Traders Court thread, that I will file tomorrow.
Regards.

 

[foix]

As I said, I have just submitted the case to the FPA Traders Court.
I hope that the Broker, in order to preserve his reputation, now could be more reasonable with me, avoiding me to proceed with a lawsuit.
Anyway........Look at this scary image attached......might it be called "promotional intimidation" ?!
I hope that this my Traders Court case doesn't cause problems to FPA, for possible "advertising retaliations" by the Broker.

 

[foix]

Yesterday another weekly payment is arrived from the Broker.
Evidently, as a result of the public clamor of my Scam Alert thread, ****** has been magically able to break his...so much emphasized.. 5000€ weekly payment limit.
In fact, look at the image attached....he has completed one of my very old withdrawal request 10000€ worth, dated 20 August....almost 2 months of waiting after the date submission !
Unfortunately I have still 90.000€ totally blocked with him, in my forcibly deactivated trading account, with a multitude of old withdrawal requests still pending, and ...obviously ....the Broker continues, without any hesitation, to avoid to contact me or to answer to every my email, despite his false availability public declarations.
He has never tried to reach any agreement with me....he has only communicated me the 5000€ weekly payment in his last email dated 4 August...and no more contact after that.....no way...deal or not deal...this was only an imposition for me !
I have tried to make a deal with him in several occasion, but after almost 3 months of total silence, now I'm only...totally disgusted by his behavior and by the non-existent attention demonstrated towards his clients.
I have only another question for you...******... Do you think that a Broker with your high standard....(as you said in your last reply: "we wish to emphasise our company's irreproachable reputation and transparency towards its traders"), could peacefully afford to complete his client withdrawal requests.....only when he wants....and only how he wants....closing accounts and stopping any contact with his clients...no matter their needs...... and despite what is specified in his own Customer Agreement?
Is this what you need, in your conviction, to be an honest and professional Broker with an...."irreproachable reputation and transparency"?
Three days ago I have filed the case to the FPA Traders Court.....now I'm only waiting for the next step.....surely I have no intention to do nothing just waiting for....every weeks with the hope that the Broker might be magnanimous with me, and may grant me one of my payments ....in all his benevolence !

 

[foix]

Attached there is the Neteller confirmation about the last payment 10000€ worth, and I enclose again 2 ****** Client Area screenshots with all my other old withdrawal requests still pending, dated 1 September with every amount possible, submitted in order to facilitate Broker payments....and the other one, dated 8 October, containing only requests with 5000€ worth, following Broker indications: "Unfortunately, in exceptional cases where our e-wallet limitations clash with the existing high demand, we kindly ask our traders to resubmit their withdrawal requests in smaller amounts"
Same thing with Skrill requests (images attached).
In this way ****** has really no more reasons to avoid to pay me all my money back ....he can really do it in every possible way !

 

[foix]

Would be very nice if the Broker could explain me why he can't use a simple Bank transfer to refund me.

I attach again these my 2 email copies (I have already provided to the Broker my Bank details 2 months ago in one of these emails).
But these emails were written (5 and 16 August) after the last Broker email (4 August)....and after that no more answers from him.

In one of my previous reply in my Scam Alert thread, I wrote to the Broker:

In your Customer Agreement you claim:
"13.8. In exceptional cases (such as Force Majeure circumstances, termination of payment system operation, etc) Company is entitled to decline Client’s funds withdrawal in this payment system. Such cases shall be considered on a case by case basis.
13.9. To provide financial security for the Client in some cases the Company reserves a right to withdraw Client’s funds only to his/her bank account."

...then, can you explain me why you can't use a simple Bank transfer to refund me completely in only one solution, considering that you have so many problems with your e-wallet accounts (in one of my email - 16 August, attached to my first post, I have already provided you my Bank details.....but you never answered me)

But....in the second and last Broker reply, ****** answered me: "Unfortunately, we are bound by a limitation. And section 13.9 to which you’re referring to does not apply in your case, as we already began paying out your funds, and consequently, there is no reason to suspect your funds insecurity."

This means that he can use Bank transfer only in case of funds insecurity......but.... WHY he's unable to use it to pay me all my money back, since he claims his e-wallet limitations?
I don't know....****** never answered me about it.......but I can imagine the reason !

 

[gerryg]

Is your strategy based on swap arbitrage using different brokers? Don't want to advocate the broker that doesn't pay you, but arbitrage techniques are prohibited, cuz fair trading means that a trader is exposed to SAME amount of market risk as any other traders. Any ways to avoid that automatically fall under illegal practices.

But you can PM me we could discuss your trading technique, I mean was it fair or not.

 

[foix]

Is your strategy based on swap arbitrage using different brokers? Don't want to advocate the broker that doesn't pay you, but arbitrage techniques are prohibited, cuz fair trading means that a trader is exposed to SAME amount of market risk as any other traders. Any ways to avoid that automatically fall under illegal practices.

But you can PM me we could discuss your trading technique, I mean was it fair or not.

Dear @Gerrig, there is nothing of prohibited or illegal in my trading strategy (this was confirmed by the Broker investigation as well.....please read again post Nr. 15)
I have nothing to hide, so much so that I have attached my detailed statement in my previous post Nr. 11.
As everybody can see in 7 months I have opened and closed a total of 194 positions.
Therefore the answer is that ....I have a strategy and I trade...not a lot because I use a long term correlation strategy...but in any case....I trade....and all regularly...only manual trading, no robot, no scalping, no spike trading, no latency arbitrage, no high frequency, no news trading....I simply open a position and after some time I close it...and this is the basis of trading....if this is prohibited...I really don't know what can be permitted !
Swap is important for me, but only in order to reduce and keep under control the overall trading costs....I don't consider this aspect in order to reach my profits.
I'm not interested in very small profit percentage that is possible to gain only to collect positive swap....my strategy is much more complex and I have by far bigger goals.
Yes, I can use different strategies with different Brokers at the same time, but always with different pairs traded, depending of trading conditions offered for a particular pair....but I think that I can handle my own affairs ...without being called to account by the single Broker used !
The only thing that is important...is...Have I violated some Broker Customer Agreement rules? No? The Broker has to pay me my profit...nothing more to add !

 

[foix]

The third Broker answer:

Dear AsstModerator,

Thank you for your involvement in this thread.

With all due respect to Foixx’s posts and reference to our customer agreement we are unable to withdraw his funds via bank wire.

As all the transactions between Foixx and ****** were conducted via Neteller/Skrill we must act in accordance with the AML provisions. Any violation of these provisions by our company would be unlawful.

We are fully aware of the inconvenience Foixx is addressing here on FPA, but having regard to all of the above we will continue withdrawing his funds via Neteller.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards,
****** Rep.

 

[foix]

Oh sure....I have no problem to get payed with Neteller/Skrill.
The problem is that you want to impose me a 5 months waiting, to receive all my money back !
You said: "Any violation of these provisions by our company would be unlawful"
...but ...I would like to ask to all the readers......is it lawful to block a client withdrawal requests for months?

You said: "....reference to our customer agreement we are unable to withdraw his funds via bank wire"
...but...why you want reference to your customer agreement only when it's convenient for you?

And your customer agreement point 13.5 :
"If the Client requests to withdraw funds from the Trading Account, the Company shall pay the specified amount within three (3) Business Days once the request has been accepted......."
and your web site FAQ section:
13.7 What is the maximum amount for withdrawals/ deposits? ****** does not limit the amount you can withdraw or deposit into your account. The deposit amount is unlimited, and the withdrawal amount should not exceed free margin.

PLEASE, May I know WHERE is it indicated in your Customer Agreement or in your web site that if a client make profit, he will be able to withdraw a maximum of 5000/10000€ a week, and not more, due to your e-wallet limitation?

If you have failed to indicate clearly these kind of conditions....this appears only as an abuse...there is nothing to add !
I was disposal in several occasions to reach an agreement with you, but your total silence until now with me, constitutes in my opinion, not only an abuse .....but a full-on fraud !

I look forward to have the Traders Court public voting, in order to know the opinion about it of all the other forum members.

 

[foix]

In his last reply the Broker wrote:
"As all the transactions between Foixx and ****** were conducted via Neteller/Skrill we must act in accordance with the AML provisions. Any violation of these provisions by our company would be unlawful"

....but his statement is purposely inaccurate.

I have deposited always using Neteller, I never used Skrill to deposit.
After my trading account forced closure, was the Broker to write me, asking if I could provide a Skrill account, in order to accelerate the processing of my withdrawal requests (Can I prove it? Yes...look at the 3 emails copy attached, dated 2 August...the day after the account closing...I attach again the closing communication email)
So...the Broker had no problems to execute my withdrawals using Skrill, despite I had deposited only with Neteller.
No violation of AML provisions in this case?......and then...why using a simply Bank transfer is in breach of them?

I really don't think that support this kind of justification can be plausible !

 

[foix]

Moderator question:

If the client made a small deposit via bank wire, would ****** then be able to allow him to withdraw all of his money by bank wire?

If bank wire is not an option, does ****** have any other methods where the client could get all of his funds faster?

 

[foix]

The Broker answer:

Dear AsstModerator,

Thank you for your reply.

We typically process all withdrawals in one request, but in this specific case we had to ask foixx to submit several withdrawal requests.

Regrettably, we do not offer any alternatives to e-wallet payment systems.

Kind regards,
****** Rep.

 

[foix]

Really unbelievable! From the Broker answer seems that the problem is only the necessity to slip my big withdrawal request in several little requests.
I have already done it...from 1 September with Neteller and after with Skrill as well.
The real problem, that ****** seems to accurately avoid even only to nominee, is that he's paying me only a request a week, and he will need months to complete all them!
If the Broker would pay me a 5000€ request each day, there wouldn't be any problem !
Only yesterday, in fact, another little 5000€ weekly payment is arrived from the Broker.
Almost 3 months are already passed since my trading account forced closure and, with 85000€ still blocked, I will have to wait another 17 weeks in order to have all my withdrawal requests completed....another 4 months.....a total of more than 7 months of waiting !

Dear @****** Rep....it's really very sad to see how you answer only if @asstModerator makes you a question, while at the same time, you continue to ignore all my emails and all my questions in this thread as well.
This shows another time your total lack of consideration and attention towards your clients.

I want to try to make my previous question another time (and I think that, in case of your reiterated silence, I will try every week for the next 17 weeks, so my scam alert thread will be able to rest alive, maximizing the visualizations, in order to inform the greatest possible part of the other forum members, about your regrettable behavior):

When I opened the account with you, I had to agree only with your Customer Agreement (You wrote in the open account page: "By clicking open account, you confirm that you have read and agree with our customer agreement").

But.....in your customer agreement point 13.5, you said :
"If the Client requests to withdraw funds from the Trading Account, the Company shall pay the specified amount within three (3) Business Days once the request has been accepted......."

No mention at all about your maximum 5000$€ amount that a winning client can withdraw every week (note that I say "winning client", because, as I proved in my previous posts, you had no problem at all to complete my several 15000€ withdrawal requests when I was loosing money......and then....where was your 5000€ weekly e-wallet limitation in these cases?)

Moreover in your web site FAQ section, you are even more specific:
13.7 What is the maximum amount for withdrawals/ deposits?****** does not limit the amount you can withdraw or deposit into your account. The deposit amount is unlimited, and the withdrawal amount should not exceed free margin.

PLEASE....another time......may I know WHERE a potential client can be informed of these your withdrawal limitations, BEFORE the account opening, and not only AFTER.....WHERE is it indicated in your Customer Agreement or in your web site that if a client makes profit, he will be able to withdraw a maximum of 5000€ a week, and not more?
Do you think that it is lawful to change the rules to your advantage how and when you want?

And ...last question: for what reason you continue to think that your Customer Agreement must be valid and must be rigorously followed only by your traders, and you evoke it only for your convenience, while, at the same time, you can peacefully go in total breach of it and, with incredible arrogance, into thinking that you are always doing the right thing !

Your behavior is causing me a big financial damage....furthermore you are totally unregulated and you are not able to offer any kind of protection compensation fund for your clients, in case of your bankruptcy.
This fact will espose me for the next months to a big counter-party risk, with my money still retained with you....and this thinking is going to take my sleep!)

Since that by now, starts to be clear, from your totally insubstantial answers, that you have no intention at all to be collaborative, trying to reach a more favorable agreement with me....now I only hope that you can obtain, from this your unfair and unethical behavior, an equally big damage in terms of reputation and credibility, with an FPA Traders Court guilty verdict, that could remain in your review page for the next months, in order to inform of your abuses, and so dissuade, the bigger part of your new potential future clients.
I will post this story in other forex forums as well, in order to maximize these information.
No more anything else to hope for me !

 

[foix]

Moderator request:

I'm confused. What makes Foixx's withdrawal atypical?

Can you please lay out a time table for Foixx to withdraw all of his money as quickly as possible? How many withdrawals for what amounts over what period of time?

The Broker reply:

Dear AsstModerator,

To clarify we never considered foixx’s case atypical.

If you refer to our previous posts you’ll see that due to limitations on our payment systems we cannot process his withdrawal all at once.

It is not an uncommon practice to ask our clients to submit several withdrawal requests if it exceeds the limitation amount.

This is exactly what happened in foixx’s case, and we are continuously withdrawing his funds.

Once again, we understand the inconvenience as we keep note of all the posts that foixx is publishing in the thread and we wish to thank you for your involvement in it.

Please rest assured we are doing our best to withdraw his funds as soon as possible.

Thank you again for your understanding.

Kind regards,
****** Rep.

 

[foix]

A Forum Member comment:

This is hypocricy. In your terms and conditions you state yourself that "****** does not limit the amount you can withdraw" and "the Company shall pay the specified amount within three (3) Business Days". Yet you limit the withdrawal to 5000€ per week and instead of three (3) Business Days you keep him waiting for months now. This is ridiculous. What a joke of an offshore bucketshop Broker you are. You really deserve the SCAM label if you ask me.

Nothing more to add !!!

 

[foix]

The Broker continues purposely to avoid to talk about the crucial point.
The problem is not to split my big withdrawal request and execute only 5000€ worth withdrawal requests at a time....the problem is that he's paying me only 5000€ a week .....avoiding to indicates where this 5000€ weekly limitation is specified in his Customer Agreement or web site, in order to inform his clients.
In my opinion.... at this point .....a similar vague answer sound only as a joke !
I hope that FPA will decide for proceeding as soon as possible with the public voting, faced to a similar shameless behavior.

 

[gerryg]

The Broker continues purposely to avoid to talk about the crucial point.
The problem is not to split my big withdrawal request and execute only 5000€ worth withdrawal requests at a time....the problem is that he's paying me only 5000€ a week .....avoiding to indicates where this 5000€ weekly limitation is specified in his Customer Agreement or web site, in order to inform his clients.
In my opinion.... at this point .....a similar vague answer sound only as a joke !
I hope that FPA will decide for proceeding as soon as possible with the public voting, faced to a similar shameless behavior.

Is it pure profit you're withdrawing or initial deposit?
It sounds really ridiculous because for example with Нotforex, max withdrawal PER REQUEST is $10000, no other limitations. They're making scapegoat of AML policy and hiding under rules take out of thin air...