Nothing works consistently

On a serious note. S/R prices work, even on a 'blind' basis you can put the odds in your favour, but they are main decision points. Some can see the decision in a candle chart or a line chart, some cannot.

What's on offer, what's the going rate, what's the going sentiment?

Consistently profitable trading is a reality, but can you get everything right?

Should the business of buying and selling anything, wether it be financial instrument contracts or second hand sports cars, be 100% guaranteed profit on every deal?

I suppose it depends.



PS. Just because you can't do something....doesn't mean it can't be done.
 
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Paul is right.

The core stuff does work consistently. Although evaluation of the situations may change so blindly applied patterns etc are likely to come and go with the ebb and flow of market memes.

I recently read the Trend Dynamics "book" that came from the course. A beautiful thing based on what has worked in the past which works today and because of the way it's taught will still work 30 or 100 years into the future.

Market profile concepts work. Although Dalton's and what's his names original setups probably faded and many people have failed to use it after a brief infatuation. Frank's simple approach to it will stand the test of time assuming the US can provide him with reliable electricity: My.WallSt.net - Blogs

So the core works. You just have to learn how to make it work for you today. Cheers :)
 
I've been trading for approximately six months now. What am having a hard time grasping is what worked yesterday doesn't work the following day.

For instance on one day I was scalping NASDAQ stock anddoing well well, and then using the same method the next day or a week later and I have devastating results. When trying to trade breakouts and momentum trades, majority of the breakout turn out to be false. Sometimes prices bounce off the EMA, sometimes they go straight through.

My point is nothing seems to work on a consistent basis. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


You've been given advice on how to put the odds in your favour. The hourlies are great for you,.....apparently. Time frames don't reduce risk,....remember that!

You'll just have to rework your capital to make a living,....so it's all relative.

So you can throw the darts, just make sure you throw them at a target you know, and not somebody elses target,......they may be wrong.
 
I think one of the problems is the question. nothing works consistently. what is that? consistency is winning month after winning month. not winning trade after winning trade. one of the toughest mental skills to aquire is being indifferent to losing. its part of winning, after all. why work out what works only to be discouraged when your looking at negative p&l. i guess its all down to fear and greed management.
 
seeing as this thread has gone this way...slightly off topic... was talking with a long term successful trader today, we were talking about time and effort. We both think that the time and effort we have put in to knowing when not to do the thing that looks like the right thing to do is the key to keeping what we get lucky and make all the other times!!!!
 
consistency is winning month after winning month. not winning trade after winning trade.

That in a nutshell is what trading is all about, at least for those that trade for a living.

Certain woulda-coulda-shoulda-artists living a make-believe parallel life of pretense on boards to help them forget their real existence which consists to a large degree of asking customers if they want fries with their order will inevitably voice vociferous opposition to said simplicity, albeit with the small but pretty relevant blemish that they will never be able to back up their bragging.

;-)

But back to real life.

As I've said here many times, Mark Douglas is spot on in his analysis that anything can and will happen at any time in the markets (think, all it takes is one massive order that can be anything, a hedge, a position being covered, somebody entering the market with a view diametrically opposed to yours, but that will all have the same effect of throwing all of your clever analysis overboard and triggering your stop loss).

The very simple reason why markets cannot be predicted consistently is based on the fact that markets are made up of a conglomeration of huge numbers of participants all following totally different objectives...

You have hedgers, you have speculators.

You have fundamental traders, you have technical traders.

You have scalpers, daytraders, swing traders, position traders.

You have participants that see the same price levels, yet for some price is too high, for others it's too low.

Etc etc.

Every participant in markets has a different perceptive, different objectives, and different risk parameters.

That is why the notion of predictable markets that follow some inner system is nonsense.

The market is composed not of an inner logic or system that would be seperate from it's constituting participants, no, a market is nothing but the sum of it's constituting participants, each of whom has his own agenda, doing his own thing.

Thats why a quest for consistency is largely nothing than an irrelevant brain fart.

Not only is such a search for a holy grail a total waste of time, far worse, systems that are right more often than they are wrong are decidedly less net profitable than their lower hit rate brethren:

Brett Steenbarger:

"...As a rule, maximizing batting average/minimizing drawdown comes at the cost of lowering overall system profitability...."


"William Eckhardt:

The Win/Loss Ratio
“One common adage on this subject that is completely wrongheaded is: You can’t go broke taking profits. That’s precisely how many traders do go broke. While amateurs go broke by taking large losses, professionals go broke by taking small profits. The problem in a nutshell is that human nature does not operate to maximize gain but rather to maximize the chance of a gain. The desire to maximize the number of winning trades (or minimize the number of losing trades) works against the trader. The success rate of trades is the least important performance statistic and may even be inversely related to performance. …

What really matters is the long-run distributions of outcomes from your trading techniques, systems, and procedures. But, psychologically, what seems of paramount importance is whether the positions that you have right now are going to work. Current positions seem to be crucial beyond any statistical justification. It’s quite tempting to bend your rules to make your current trades work, assuming that the favorability of your long-term statistics will take care of future profitability. Two of the cardinal sins of trading - giving losses too much rope and taking profits prematurely - are both attempts to make current positions more likely to succeed, to the severe detriment of long-term performance.”

Market Wizards

If you want a high hit rate system you can very easily achieve that through having stop losses that are larger than your take profits, that is all there is behind high hit rate strategies.

They do no more than provide psychological comfort at the cost of lowering your net profitability, and making it much harder and eventually impossible to keep compounding due to eventual liquidity issues.

The following is probably the single most important insight on the way to wealth and fortune through trading:

Kenneth Grant, in "Trading Risk: Enhanced Profitability through Risk Control", depicts his experience as risk manager for some of the best and most successful hedge funds, amongst others Paul Tudor Jones funds and Steve Cohens SAC Capital, that:

ACROSS ALL MARKET CONDITIONS, TRADING STYLES, TIME FRAMES AND TRADERS, ONE RULE HOLDS TRUE:

10% OF ALL TRADES INEVITABLY ACCOUNT FOR 90% OF PROFITS !


Truly grasp that and you're on your way.

Have problems with that path that simply needs to be taken on the way towards your objective of net profitability and it's next to guaranteed that you'll end up as one of tradings 95% net losers, and you'll need to keep on asking customers what they want with their order.

Super_Size_Me_Poster.jpg
 
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Was that image really necessary?! I'm about to have my lunch! Urgh!

Otherwise, good post.
 
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Hehe

Thought I'd make some unpaid advertising for Super Size Me while I'm at it, and point out the inevitable correlation between certain eating habbits and certain changes to ones physique, ahem.

;-);-);-)

Bon appetit nevertheless :)
 
I've been trading for approximately six months now. What am having a hard time grasping is what worked yesterday doesn't work the following day.

For instance on one day I was scalping NASDAQ stock anddoing well well, and then using the same method the next day or a week later and I have devastating results. When trying to trade breakouts and momentum trades, majority of the breakout turn out to be false. Sometimes prices bounce off the EMA, sometimes they go straight through.

My point is nothing seems to work on a consistent basis. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


The key thing to understand here is that the market goes through various phases, during which price movement is different from the previous phase. This alters the parameters of the indicators that you are using(if any), or the structure around which price volatilty can move.

You have to first be able to identify the different phases the market i going through, then you have to define a seperate strategy for each phase.

If you keep using the same method , you will experience the kind of results that you just reported. Part of your trading plan should cover this aspect before you attempt to follow indicators or price action.
 
The key thing to understand here is that the market goes through various phases, during which price movement is different from the previous phase. This alters the parameters of the indicators that you are using(if any), or the structure around which price volatilty can move.

You have to first be able to identify the different phases the market i going through, then you have to define a seperate strategy for each phase.

If you keep using the same method , you will experience the kind of results that you just reported. Part of your trading plan should cover this aspect before you attempt to follow indicators or price action.

Interesting stuff Market Wizard, but how do you identify the phase the market is going through?
 

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NT has shown some classic trading action, it happens all the time,.....why?
 
Nothing works consistantly?

What's the definition of consistantly, and from what perspective?

I suppose it's all just conversation.
 
Interesting stuff Market Wizard, but how do you identify the phase the market is going through?

A very good question NT, but its one i cannot go into discussion here, i dont have the time and only frequent here occasionaly whilst the markets are slow.

The difficulty in doing this is trying to get people to breakout of their own mindset about the markets. If people have a simple system that works, many will not want to explore further because it may put the existing understanding (and profits) at risk. That can be lot of hard work down the drain for most, and if you are used to taking small points from the market, letting it go is not easy, as something for your efforts is better than nothing.

Secondly most traders view the market from the perspective of finding a system that generates profits ,without trying to develop an understanding of how the markets them actually work and are structured. This i can understand because it is a very complex subject with little information, real fact and practical issues and more on personal ideas and opinions.

How does one identify the opinions from real fact when there is no benchmark for comaparison? You cant, it just has to be folowed and tested, this is very time consuming and costly with no guaranteed results , thus posing a huge risk.

But at the very basic level you have to know what phases of the market exist : up trend, sideways, pullback, retracement, reversal action etc. There are several, I know that everyone knows they exist, but the key is understanding how they develop so one can begin to identify the signs and then begin to utilse this information in their trading plan.

One thing to remember though is that even if you do not develop a complete understanding, you should look to develop a little of the above, this alone will alter your success ratio because it allows you to correct your trading parameters with known reasons , beyond this things can only get better.
 
and you'll need another arm.... i can only hold two books..... ;)

im off to amazon, appears my library is incomplete...again.....

Taleb's book was too deep for me. In the beginning the reader understands that Black Swans are around every corner. What he does not explain to me is how to figure out when they are going to take place and in what form.

Quite often we can tell that a bubble is forming and we know that it will have to end at some point. The important word here, though, is when.. When is never known.

Traders will never know when "when" is going to be the next to happen and, in trading, that is of extreme importance.

Statistics play an essential part of trading but we can only go so far with them. The Black Swan is,also, a new component of anyone's population count. When it enters, the whole plan is thrown into confusion.

Many were short on the day that the Twin Towers massacre occurred and, equally, many were long. It is ridiculous to suggest that that could have been forecasted, but I believe that we had a premonition that, somewhere in the world, a similar incident would occur. No one knew, though, the "when" or "where" and, so, we all had to work on the charts as we saw them.

I'd save your money with Taleb's book. It does not tell us anything that we did not know already. Unfortunately, I did mention it a few months ago. Now, I wish I had not.

Split
 
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LOL !

I've met a lot of traders in my time, people I contacted to learn what they do and how they do it while I was trying to figure out how to make a living at this.

If there was ever one correlation it was between perceived simplicity of markets and wealth.

The dingier the abode was the more rubbish was spouted on markets being oh so complex and rocket sciency.

Not a single one of the rich guys I visited ever claimed that there was anything even remotely hard to grasp about markets, or that there were big secrets between you and success, their view was strictly markets go up, down, or sideways, and what happens next is strictly not predictable, but prediction is also entirely irrelevant to trading profits.

The truly wealthy were most definitely all in the KISS camp.

Ttrading is dead simple, which is not to say that it's easy, but thats about yourself and not about markets.

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That guy is a REAL market wizard running a hedge fund and with a fortune commensurate with his ability to print money.

Jesse Livermore, who came from a farm and started with zero yet earned himself a fortune that would have made him a Billionaire in todays money credits his success with pretty much the same what the other rich guys I met credited their success with:

“It was never my thinking that made me money but my sitting tight.”

Don't waste a lot of time searching for some holy grail...

It doesn't exist.

Markets are nothing than the sum of what their participants are doing, and the the one thing they are not doing is dancing to the tune of the Great Invisible Conductor.

That's just what the people driving the Nissan Micras like to believe to find an explanation for their lack of success as per the famous complexity experiment that Harvard did where two groups of students had to come up with explanations to simple problems. The first group got the correct evaluation from the professors, ie if they had come up with the correct explanation they received a "correct", if not they got a "wrong", while the second group got random evaluations, so that even if they were right they might have received a "wrong" and vice versa.

The first groups solutions were all admirably simple, while the second groups explanations became increasingly complex as they tried desperately to force the inexplicable facts to fit the theory.

The same goes for trading.

As William of Ockham very rightly observed in what came to be known as Occams Razor, "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

All other things in trading are very equal, and you'll make more money than you can ever spend by being right no more than 30% of the time provided your winners average out at 3 times the size of your losers.

Bill Lipshutz who was featured in the "New Market Wizards" was for his 8 years at the then Salomon Brothers their biggest and most profitable FX trader, earning, on average, US$ 250 K / day for his employer, before he started his own hedge fund, and the way he did that was by going for excellent risk / reward levels where he was right no more than 20 -30 % of the time, but by vigorously cutting his losses short while letting his gains run.

But then his focus was on profits, not some wild goose chase to unearth secrets that don't exist in the first place.
 
It seems to me that the world is roughly comprised of 2 parts with a fuzzy bit in between.

There are those ( the Arts lot ) that work up a theory and expect the facts to fit their theory. And it does to some extent but not totally.

And the other group ( the Science lot ) that try to make a theory from the facts and then expect the theory to fit the facts. Which it usually does in part but never totally.

Thus you get a large number, well almost everybody, totally confused when their theories only partially work.

The trick is to bet enough on the bits of the theory from either camp that are right - to make a profit. So both camps do make profits but mainly losses.

Seems clear enough to me QED
 
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