Newbie dilemma

You'd probably learn more about trading and definitley about yourself by loading £5k in to a spreadbet account rather than paying some guru to "teach" you.

For the avoidance of doubt, given that someone has 'reported' my answer to the mods :rolleyes: I totally agree that putting 5K into a SB account and trading with it is a far better spend of money than giving it as a charitable donation to a slick marketing operation. However, I am not and would never suggest that someone 'brand new' to trading simply bangs in 5K and alternatively donates it as a charitable donation to, for example, IG.

I've never budged from the opinion that you should do the IG 'trade sense' approach; 10p per pip bets up to 50p per pip over a four-six week period. Then, once convinced you have a chance at making it, you could fund the account with perhaps £1,000 and trade no more than £1 per pip risking no more than 3% - £30 per trade including stop and cost of spread...and please no legions telling me only risk 1%...at this 'learning' level 3% is right and acceptable for a multitude of reasons...IMO the 1-2% risk is far more important/relevant once trading for bigger stakes..

IMHO you will not create a decent equity curve out of this £1K, when/if you witness it reduce by 25% you should stop and evaluate your mistakes etc. Making that £1k last perhaps a year, whilst you make/learn from just about every possible initial mistake will form the basis of a sound market education...a far better market education than you could possibly achieve from a 2 day residential course.
 
Afternoon all...

QUOTE FROM CEYDABABY: "Letting profits run, Risk/reward - Its all non-sense. You don't just set a profit target and a stop loss and leave it, you can do, i'm sure.... But its not neccesary the best way to go about it; Another option would be to constantly adapt your target and stop loss in corespondance with market conditions".

QUOTE FROM TOMORTON: "One way I have found it useful to build 'cut your losses, run your profits' into trades without becoming obsessive about it is to re-TA each open position at the close."

Yessss! That's great to hear you both say those things. I've been doing that so far on both my own developing strategies, ie redoing the TA on all my open or prospective trades plus checking Reuters et al every night for expected announcements, but I was doing it feeling very unsure whether it was a legitimate approach.

I think my doubts were coming from the fact that the one strategy I was taught by the TU (the seven-day powerplay) is built around setting a stop-loss and a target then not moving them for the first five days of the trade being live, and thereafter moving them to a rigid pattern? (I'm not saying the PP strategy doesn't work, it just doesn't seem to work very well for me, and when a fellow-weekender queried his lack of success with it, he was told that we're in the wrong kind of market right now).

QUOTE FROM TOMORTON re. re-TAing: ..."if I was not already long here would I buy now? If I can't find a good reason to be a buyer, why would anyone else? Its the new buyers who make a price rise, not the number of people holding, price does not float up on its own. Without a continuous influx of new buyers, price will not rise."

I hadn't thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense, thankyou!

QUOTE FROM BLACK SWAN: "IMHO you will not create a decent equity curve out of this £1K, when/if you witness it reduce by 25% you should stop and evaluate your mistakes etc. Making that £1k last perhaps a year, whilst you make/learn from just about every possible initial mistake will form the basis of a sound market education...a far better market education than you could possibly achieve from a 2 day residential course."

sorry, dumb question here...by "create a decent equity curve from 1k", did you mean that once I'm fairly confident that I can trade profitably and consistently that I'll need to fund a much bigger a/c so that what I'm risking (and hopefully making) will be "real money", rather than the price of a pint or two? If so, then yup, that was my plan,though if I'm honest, I'd hoped to get to that stage in six months or so, and then use my annual bonus from work to fund the "real thing". But if it takes a year, or longer, then so be it, I guess. (and if my 1k "apprenticeship" a/c lasts me the whole of my training year, I'll be delighted TBH!)

errr...and if that's not what an equity curve is, then pleeeze ignore that waffle, and explain? *g*
 
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I still maintain reading some of the excellent trading books available is worthy of a hundred or two quid of your money. Learning on the job is one way of doing it, but why not read about it first. For goodness sake, how many other careers or businesses would you simply start throwing money at before doing some research.. then demo trading, then trading in small amounts. There are traders' clubs one can attend, e.g. Traders and Investors club, once a month in the City, £30 a time (I've been but am not connected with it financially).
 
hi meanrevision

I agree totally about the "books" part, for sure. I see there's a lot of recommendations out there, here and other places, so I think a reading list might be a plan, hey. I've seen a couple of titles that seem to be pretty widely recommended, but if you had anything particular in mind?

As far as the demo a/c thing goes, in hindsight yup, it wouldprobably have been a good idea, but I was launched before I knew they were an option, and I think my "apprentice" account is just going to have to serve the same purpose. If I ever tried Forex, tho, or intraday, I'd definitely do a demo a/c first.

cheers
Tess
 
Afternoon all...

QUOTE FROM CEYDABABY: "Letting profits run, Risk/reward - Its all non-sense. You don't just set a profit target and a stop loss and leave it, you can do, i'm sure.... But its not neccesary the best way to go about it; Another option would be to constantly adapt your target and stop loss in corespondance with market conditions".

QUOTE FROM TOMORTON: "One way I have found it useful to build 'cut your losses, run your profits' into trades without becoming obsessive about it is to re-TA each open position at the close."

Yessss! That's great to hear you both say those things. I've been doing that so far on both my own developing strategies, ie redoing the TA on all my open or prospective trades plus checking Reuters et al every night for expected announcements, but I was doing it feeling very unsure whether it was a legitimate approach.

I think my doubts were coming from the fact that the one strategy I was taught by the TU (the seven-day powerplay) is built around setting a stop-loss and a target then not moving them for the first five days of the trade being live, and thereafter moving them to a rigid pattern? (I'm not saying the PP strategy doesn't work, it just doesn't seem to work very well for me, and when a fellow-weekender queried his lack of success with it, he was told that we're in the wrong kind of market right now).

QUOTE FROM TOMORTON re. re-TAing: ..."if I was not already long here would I buy now? If I can't find a good reason to be a buyer, why would anyone else? Its the new buyers who make a price rise, not the number of people holding, price does not float up on its own. Without a continuous influx of new buyers, price will not rise."

I hadn't thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense, thankyou!

QUOTE FROM BLACK SWAN: "IMHO you will not create a decent equity curve out of this £1K, when/if you witness it reduce by 25% you should stop and evaluate your mistakes etc. Making that £1k last perhaps a year, whilst you make/learn from just about every possible initial mistake will form the basis of a sound market education...a far better market education than you could possibly achieve from a 2 day residential course."

sorry, dumb question here...by "create a decent equity curve from 1k", did you mean that once I'm fairly confident that I can trade profitably and consistently that I'll need to fund a much bigger a/c so that what I'm risking (and hopefully making) will be "real money", rather than the price of a pint or two? If so, then yup, that was my plan,though if I'm honest, I'd hoped to get to that stage in six months or so, and then use my annual bonus from work to fund the "real thing". But if it takes a year, or longer, then so be it, I guess. (and if my 1k "apprenticeship" a/c lasts me the whole of my training year, I'll be delighted TBH!)

errr...and if that's not what an equity curve is, then pleeeze ignore that waffle, and explain? *g*

An eye for detail is probably a good attribute to have when trading, and without sounding harsh you attribute a quote to me that I don't remember typing !

I do disagree with Black Swan. I think you can create a decent equity curve from most amounts if you keep the risk to a sensible level. There have been guys out there who've turned small amounts in to Mega Money, Dan Zanger and Paul Rotter are two names that spring to mind.

I would be very sceptical about anything called a "seven day power play" It sounds more like something associated with American Sport than a sound trading strategy.
 
An eye for detail is probably a good attribute to have when trading, and without sounding harsh you attribute a quote to me that I don't remember typing !

I do disagree with Black Swan. I think you can create a decent equity curve from most amounts if you keep the risk to a sensible level. There have been guys out there who've turned small amounts in to Mega Money, Dan Zanger and Paul Rotter are two names that spring to mind.

I would be very sceptical about anything called a "seven day power play" It sounds more like something associated with American Sport than a sound trading strategy.

On a probabilty basis (;)) a new trader is highly unlikley to make his/her initial market stake grow immediately. I had made it clear that if (once) the initial stake reduces by 25% then perhaps stop trading and re-assess.
 
eeep! Sorry, ceydababy AND GladiatorX! It was originally said by GladiatorX in #48, and quoted in #50 by ceydababy. Home is where you hang yer head, huh?
 
Hi, Tess, from your posts, and between all the TA bs lines, you actually sound pretty clued up to me.
 
Hi Tess, no offence intended, but are you writing a freelance article (on, say, retail level punters during recession time)? (BTW I think it would be great if you are). You opened this thread two or three days ago and you have got the TA patter down like a pro (or, maybe it just sounds that way to me as I can't make head or tail of TA).

Again, no offence intended, and I wish you the best of luck.
 
Hi Tess, no offence intended, but are you writing a freelance article (on, say, retail level punters during recession time)? (BTW I think it would be great if you are). You opened this thread two or three days ago and you have got the TA patter down like a pro (or, maybe it just sounds that way to me as I can't make head or tail of TA).

Again, no offence intended, and I wish you the best of luck.

LOL...none taken. But no, I'm not. Just working on getting the TA itself down like a pro instead of just the patter! :confused:
 
Hi Tess, no offence intended, but are you writing a freelance article (on, say, retail level punters during recession time)? (BTW I think it would be great if you are). You opened this thread two or three days ago and you have got the TA patter down like a pro (or, maybe it just sounds that way to me as I can't make head or tail of TA).

Again, no offence intended, and I wish you the best of luck.

no flies on you mate...:D
 
okay, anyone got a view they feel like sharing on the differing weight they'd give to technical analysis and fundamental analysis? I'm looking at a trade at the moment, and all the TA seems to support setting a break-out ambush, going long, but it's an oil company, and the FA I'm seeing on oil prices, plus the uncertainty about the upcoming Iraq bids make me wonder.

Not asking anyone to tell me whether to take the trade, I've already decided. But while I was weighing it up, I got to wondering what weight other stocks traders place on TA/FA, respectively...

keep on truckin
Tess
 
Hi Tess - possibly an extreme view but I give zero % weight to FA. I can admit I don't know anything fundamental about the companies I have had positions in recently aprt fropm their name and sector. FA will move the market however, and I then join in, but TA tells me the right target and the right time.
 
Hi Tess,
Yes, I very much agree with Tom. As a rather crude rule of thumb, funnymentals increase in significance the longer you hold your positions. For traders who have positions for a few minutes to a few weeks, they are less important. Having said that, this is very much 'received wisdom', which is probably as good a reason as any to ignore it completely and do something completely different!
TIm.
 
dimsdaletraders,
This is one of the best "newbie" threads I've seen and judging from your posts you will surely succeed at trading.
Enjoy the intellectual challenge and the journey - it's even better when you get to your destination :)
Richard
 
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