Mastering the game.

[SOCRATES]

A-Ha

Yes !

...Because he was able to express an idea that makes the difference very clear, and from memory, I quote:~

".....I heard what you said....but you must understand...that if I did as you suggest...I would LOSE MY POSITION....I didn't say I would LOSE MY JOB....I said I would LOSE MY POSITION....and that is something that no experienced trader can afford to give up."

 

[new_trader]

Yes !

...Because he was able to express an idea that makes the difference very clear, and from memory, I quote:~

".....I heard what you said....but you must understand...that if I did as you suggest...I would LOSE MY POSITION....I didn't say I would LOSE MY JOB....I said I would LOSE MY POSITION....and that is something that no experienced trader can afford to give up."

Very good. I remember reading that..

So, is 'fun' (Dare to dream :| ) a state of mind or a state of proficiency...or both...or neither...or something else?

 

[Profitaker]

When will you be satisfied that you have mastered the trading game?

Never. I am never satisfied, because there is always room for improvement in just about any human endeavour.

And there are very few similarities between playing Chess and Trading the Market.

 

[Citizen2007]

When i no longer try to dictate the market but flow effortlessly within its endless waves- that's it for me.

 

[Rhody Trader]

When i no longer dictate the market but flow effortlessly within its endless waves- that's it for me.

Very poetic, but if you're dictating the market can you let me know ahead of time which way you're sending it?

 

[black bear]

When i no longer dictate the market but flow effortlessly within its endless waves- that's it for me.

From NQ in Cornwall ~ Fistral Beach you get a great view of natures market at work watching the surfers catching waves, depends on their skill and experience which waves they can catch and for how long.

Primary Waves and their smaller brothers and sister"s

You see it all ~ Scalpers going for short quick rides right up to the large position players who will sit for hours waiting for the right Wave Set, they climb up and stop out many times, (short paddle back to take off) then they are up and you just no this time they"ll make every move at the correct time , skipping effortlessly from set to set avoiding all the dead waves and dumps and finding the true Wave that will carry them all the way to shore. Its a hell of a long paddle back to take off and a long wait for another good Wave, they don"t mind they know its worth it.

Cribber to the beach only top quality wave riders make this one
(very large wave that starts up when the swell is 5ft +)

You see surfers making careful board selection ~ Long board or Short true honest

You see all the surfer"s all gathered up out there watching the Sun going down , comparing notes etc best board/Wax/ area to sit and wait. Looks like a great forum out there.

Ye great post Citizen Thats the way I see it to

Andy @ NQ

 

[SOCRATES]

Very good. I remember reading that..

So, is 'fun' (Dare to dream :| ) a state of mind or a state of proficiency...or both...or neither...or something else?

Fun is one of the rewards of having attained fusion.

 

[THE WOLF2222]

I would add, without the slightest doubt, when it ceases to be work, and becomes fun.

Doesn't a large part of the 'mastery' in trading revolve around emotion, and the way those emotions are directed?

The word 'fun' stood out to me as going against the grain. Fun suggests a buzz, or entertainment, whereas trading in that mindset would not be conducive.

I have not reached a stage of mastery, but during moments when trading had become fun clouded my unbiased judgement and cost me dear.

 

[black bear]

And I would agree with your disagreement.

Before it can become fun, there is a lot of work to do.

Only after all the work is done, can it be elevated to become fun.

Once it has become fun, it remains fun always.

You are wrong Mr Socrates, very wrong

the work is FUN

From NQ in Cornwall ~ Fistral Beach you get a great view of natures market at work watching the surfers catching waves, depends on their skill and experience which waves they can catch and for how long.

Primary Waves and their smaller brothers and sister"s

You see it all ~ Scalpers going for short quick rides right up to the large position players who will sit for hours waiting for the right Wave Set, they climb up and stop out many times, (short paddle back to take off) then they are up and you just no this time they"ll make every move at the correct time , skipping effortlessly from set to set avoiding all the dead waves and dumps and finding the true Wave that will carry them all the way to shore. Its a hell of a long paddle back to take off and a long wait for another good Wave, they don"t mind they know its worth it.

Cribber to the beach only top quality wave riders make this one
(very large wave that starts up when the swell is 5ft +)

You see surfers making careful board selection ~ Long board or Short true honest

You see all the surfer"s all gathered up out there watching the Sun going down , comparing notes etc best board/Wax/ area to sit and wait. Looks like a great forum out there.

The new surfers are on the beach with their Mentors learning the basics before they enter the water for the first time and try and catch their first Wave. Their boards and wet suits are only suitable for the smaller waves. That is where the Search starts and they are better for it no matter how far the search takes them.

They all have fun :!: Without fun we are just robots and without fun we will not learn.

 

[Crap Buddist]

Maybe , enjoyable is a better word for it than fun ? pleasant, something you like to do, youve worked so hard at maybe over the years . Mosts traders (i expect) will go through a "worry stage ?" especially if its their own money on the line as opposed to managing or being paid to trade other peoples money , to those maybe its just a job and not deeper or as rewarding personally. ?

 

[SOCRATES]

Doesn't a large part of the 'mastery' in trading revolve around emotion, and the way those emotions are directed?

The word 'fun' stood out to me as going against the grain. Fun suggests a buzz, or entertainment, whereas trading in that mindset would not be conducive.

I have not reached a stage of mastery, but during moments when trading had become fun it always cost me dear!

I can see you have become confused a bit. I will explain somewhat.

Fusion is a state of "being" one attains by combining Mindstate, Mindway, Mindmap and Mindset AFTER having mastered all the technical aspects of trading, the mechanical bits.

At this stage of development the mind is able to direct responses so that emotions do not come into it at all, as if they become evaporated, irrelevant (which of course they are).

In this supercooled mental state everything is very clear, and untainted by emotion, opinion, ego or doubts.

It allows the developed trader to act, and to act without let or hindrance of any sort, and furthermore, to sustain this mental state indefinitely, on command, at will.

Then trading takes on a different reality to the one held before.

It becomes a real pleasure, and fun.

 

[THE WOLF2222]

Socrates,

You mean as in a zen like state? You have gone beyond a certain point, as in the emotion (fun) is not influencing the trading and vice versa?

I see.

 

[SOCRATES]

The fun does not influence the trading. Fun is the result of trading and not the other way round. It is the reward for doing something really well and enjoying it.

 

[black bear]

Doesn't a large part of the 'mastery' in trading revolve around emotion, and the way those emotions are directed?

The word 'fun' stood out to me as going against the grain. Fun suggests a buzz, or entertainment, whereas trading in that mindset would not be conducive.

I have not reached a stage of mastery, but during moments when trading had become fun it always cost me dear!

Perhaps you are not in the right take off spot for your personality, There are many waves and many take off spots and it is your job to find one that is FUN or whats the point :?: . I have not reached a stage of mastery myself but I do have fun even if it means changing something regarding my method to allow fun back into the work. I am a painter by trade and considered above average, I always had fun when I was an apprentice and still do, when I don"t I will stop and do something else or do it another way.

That does not mean I have not the nine o"clock news on in the background when I am trading, to be honest it would do no harm in my opinion.

 

[black bear]

The fun does not influence the trading. Fun is the result of trading and not the other way round. It is the reward for doing something really well and enjoying it.

arr you did that on purpose, know Iv gotta agree with him

Im off to have some FUN you win

 

[THE WOLF2222]

I see what you mean. Is 'fun' the right word though? I am not doubting it's fun but would have imagined a feeling of satisfaction would be more befitting to mastery?

I was thinking of fun as more a euphoric state, which although complimentary to many occupations would be destructive to trading due to the brains natural reward system making ill judgements to try and repeat the 'fun'. However, if the fun/satisfaction/enjoyment is linear, as opposed to just being experienced on profitable days, then of course the direction of the emotion is not tantermount to the trading.

This is where a lot of beginners come unstuck, I've been guilty of it, and approached it, and analysed it in great depth. Anyway, I will save that for another time as it might stray from the thread title.

 

[Citizen2007]

I can see you have become confused a bit. I will explain somewhat.

Fusion is a state of "being" one attains by combining Mindstate, Mindway, Mindmap and Mindset AFTER having mastered all the technical aspects of trading, the mechanical bits.

At this stage of development the mind is able to direct responses so that emotions do not come into it at all, as if they become evaporated, irrelevant (which of course they are).

In this supercooled mental state everything is very clear, and untainted by emotion, opinion, ego or doubts.

It allows the developed trader to act, and to act without let or hindrance of any sort, and furthermore, to sustain this mental state indefinitely, on command, at will.

Then trading takes on a different reality to the one held before.

It becomes a real pleasure, and fun.

Interesting post socrates about mindstates.

Not sure if i am deviating from what you say but I believe the only mindstate you need is understanding. There is no real psychology involved in the markets except from its unknown factors. Once a trader has attained the RIGHT technical know how about how the markets work, that is when trading takes on a different reality, and the psychological elements related with trading dissipate.

 

[Citizen2007]

From NQ in Cornwall ~ Fistral Beach you get a great view of natures market at work watching the surfers catching waves, depends on their skill and experience which waves they can catch and for how long.

Primary Waves and their smaller brothers and sister"s

You see it all ~ Scalpers going for short quick rides right up to the large position players who will sit for hours waiting for the right Wave Set, they climb up and stop out many times, (short paddle back to take off) then they are up and you just no this time they"ll make every move at the correct time , skipping effortlessly from set to set avoiding all the dead waves and dumps and finding the true Wave that will carry them all the way to shore. Its a hell of a long paddle back to take off and a long wait for another good Wave, they don"t mind they know its worth it.

Cribber to the beach only top quality wave riders make this one
(very large wave that starts up when the swell is 5ft +)

You see surfers making careful board selection ~ Long board or Short true honest

You see all the surfer"s all gathered up out there watching the Sun going down , comparing notes etc best board/Wax/ area to sit and wait. Looks like a great forum out there.

Ye great post Citizen Thats the way I see it to

Andy @ NQ

Thats a great analogy of the market as a whole there.

 

[SOCRATES]

Never. I am never satisfied, because there is always room for improvement in just about any human endeavour.

And there are very few similarities between playing Chess and Trading the Market.

These hasty and ill considered comments you make........ just for the sake of contradicting...give the clue you are not as expert as you think yourself to be.

The Markets are the closest you can get to multidemensional chess apart from Rubik's Cube...and they are in fact......if you were to pause to consider....."The Ultimate Game" or even better still.... "The Game of Games".

 

[SOCRATES]

Interesting post socrates about mindstates.

Not sure if i am deviating from what you say but I believe the only mindstate you need is understanding. There is no real psychology involved in the markets except from its unknown factors. Once a trader has attained the RIGHT technical know how about how the markets work, that is when trading takes on a different reality, and the psychological elements related with trading dissipate.

Understanding on its own is not enough. The Game of Games demands more. Otherwise everyone could start trading 80 contracts straight away.