Making Money Trading

[trader_dante]

Why are you prepared to reveal your trading methods if you have discovered a method which is highly successful? What are you going to achieve by revealing all the secrets in this thread?

Hanzam - I was waiting for someone to ask this.

Ultimately you will believe me or you won't but I will tell you hand on heart there are two reasons.

First is that lately, I've started to realise that there is more to life than trading. I've gone through hell to learn to trade. I've cut myself off from my friends and family and nearly wrecked a six year relationship with the girl I love. My attempts to learn this game have led to anger and frustration. I found that all I would do is be thinking about the market and I became gradually more introverted until I lost sight of everything that really matters in life.

And then suddenly it dawned on me: the market doesn't care who I am - it was here long before I was born and it will be here long after I am dead. I am giving up precious years that I can't get back in order to learn how to make money. And I am ignoring the things that really matter in life like: "Do I show the important people in my life that I appreciate them?", "Am I making the most of my time here?", "Will I be remembered after I die?".

I'm only 28 but I felt like I was having a mid-life crisis. My father died when he was only 44 so perhaps I am...

Anyway, by frequenting forums I read about people who are far older than me, people that just want to become financially independent, support their family, perhaps enjoy their life without becoming a slave to the markets. Or people that are where I was - struggling in their trading, losing money, becoming disillusioned with it all.

When I found I was making money and still hearing they were having difficulties I thought I would share what I know.

The second reason is slightly more egotistical. It has taken me seven years to find my way in this game. And now I am having success, I want to tell everyone about it. I will tell you now I've had many detractors in my life. Colleagues, friends, sometimes even close family that have told me I will never make it. To stop trading - to stop gambling and to pursue a "worthwhile career". This is my way of showing that I am making it and that I can help others make it too. Perhaps the irony of all this is that the people I want to prove myself the most too, will never see this.

Tom

 

[Chorlton]

I am aware that I will no doubt face criticism on this thread. But all I am trying to do is impart what I have learnt.

Hi Dante,

Full respect to you for creating this thread. I hope that others do not become critical of your posts/methods/etc.

As we all know the main purpose of these forums is to share knowledge and experience so I hope that everyone remembers this as we move forward.

I will give you an example. Recently in this other forum there was a price action signal to go short EUR/CHF. This setup looked picture perfect but for some reason I didn't want to take it. Those that did lost money because it went straight up. Somewhere in that decision I made was my "reading" of the market that differed from what I had been taught.

The comment in Bold is very important. Just because a method is taught to others, does not automatically mean that everyone will be profitable especially when there is a discretionay element to it which, clearly your method definately has.

Additionally, IMO two elements that can shift a strategy from profit to loss is the Exit rules & the overall Money Management side. Out of interest, will you also be sharing your thoughts on these important elements or will you be only focusing on the entry conditions?

All the best,

Chorlton

 

[trader_dante]

Just because a method is taught to others, does not automatically mean that everyone will be profitable especially when there is a discretionay element to it which, clearly your method definately has.

EXACTLY the reason why I want us all to be looking at the same market when I teach this. If I show you what I am doing on the DAX and you go away and apply it to the GBP/USD you may not be profitable for a while. If you watch the same market I am and perhaps even trade it you will, I sincerely hope, get a feel for why I am doing what I am doing.

Additionally, IMO two elements that can shift a strategy from profit to loss is the Exit rules & the overall Money Management side. Out of interest, will you also be sharing your thoughts on these important elements or will you be only focusing on the entry conditions?

I will certainly share my methods regarding exits. I think exits are even more important than entries and they are an area that I want to devote most of my attention too.

I may talk a bit about my money management but I am hesitant to make recommendations about what others do as it all depends on the traders individual comfort zone. The friend whose account I trade, for example, is willing to take much more risk than I am because he was always playing with the houses money (it was an account opening bonus). He will frequently try to persuade me to up the risk which I warn him against.

Since trading my personal account I have not experienced 2 back to back losers. As a result of this I took as much as 10% risk per trade until the money started to mean something and now I have cut it right down.

I know 2-3% risk per trade is regularly touted as being the conservative risk to take. I think this is perfectly acceptable although I strongly believe that it is a good idea to commit as much of your account to one position if that position offers you entry points in a strongly trending market where your OVERALL reward is increasing and risk is diminishing with each increment. We will talk about this in due course.

 

[hanzam]

trader_dante

If a finance House / company decided to offer you a substanial amount not to reveal your real trading methods but just to skirt around and reveal some of the techniques will you sell out to such a proposal? If you do not sell out to them why would you reject a substanial amount say a six figure sum can you guarantee us traders that this will not happen and we won't be mislead or deceived any way and you are not part of any hidden motive.

 

[trader_dante]

Hi t_d,
Anyone who dares to stick their head above the parapet as you appear to be doing now can expect to be shot down in flames. Such is life. Given that you have expertly got everyone's interest and attention and that you are already on page 4 of the thread, may I suggest that you offer the masses a little 'cud' to chew on over the weekend? This will help to keep the prospective dissenting voices at bay and to ensure that the faithful - and eternally hopeful - remain on side, supportive and as enthusiastic about your intentions as they appear to be thus far. Forgive me if this sounds a tad harsh but, trust me, in my not inconsiderable experience of T2W there will be those who, as I write, are waiting in the wings to shoot you down in flames. So far, everything you've said is 'by the book' and hard to criticize but, sooner or later, the rubber meets the road and you're gonna have to follow through on your intentions. PLEASE don't leave it too long!

Tim.

Hi Tim,

Your post is accepted and appreciated!

I'll say one thing: if anyone wants to constructively criticise anything I say / do then feel free - perhaps we will all learn something in the process. I'm not some guru and don't wish to be treated as such. I have a lot to learn still. Right now I am just a trader whose consistency in winning is telling him he is getting somewhere further than others out there. So I will pass information back down the line as it were

I am sure there are many of you that have performed much better than me and if so I hope I can learn something from YOU!

I personally play devils advocate in my personal life. When anyone takes the consensus I usually find something wrong with it so don't think you are going to offend me.

Please try not to just gun me down for sharing things though.

It's like someone that argues: "I am going to prove the existence of extraterrestrials. Firstly, a good reason why they exist is because no one has proven since time began, that they don't exist".

You could constructively criticise this by replying: "That is ridiculous. The reason this hasn't happened is that it is virtually impossible to prove something doesn't exist. Only that it does exist."

If however, someone says: "I am going to prove extraterrestrials exist...because I have one in my wardrobe..." pulls open the door and out it walks. Well then the criticism becomes harder.

Whatever you want to say about how I am doing things, the undeniable fact is that I am making money right now. And have been for several months. If anyone actually wishes to see screenshots of my trading account history or a trading equity curve I will post one.

I also always talk in terms of money made when I make a trade aswell as in terms of ticks won/lost. Some may appreciate this out of genuine interest into what can be made, others may find it crass. But I do it nonetheless.

Ok rant over. Lets get on with this.

 

[trader_dante]

If a finance House / company decided to offer you a substanial amount not to reveal your real trading methods but just to skirt around and reveal some of the techniques will you sell out to such a proposal? If you do not sell out to them why would you reject a substanial amount say a six figure sum can you guarantee us traders that this will not happen and we won't be mislead or deceived any way and you are not part of any hidden motive.

Hanzam! I'll make you a deal. If a finance house offers me a substantial amount not to reveal my real trading method, I will tell you all that I am knocking this idea on its head and not posting anymore.

I'll be brutally honest. I'm probably not going to put a group of people I've never met in my life, before a six figure sum of money from a finance house but I will also tell you that I will not be misleading or deceiving anyone.

Your post has actually vaguely worried me. I feel like I should write some kind of legal disclaimer now.

Please realise that past performance is no indication of future results. I am going to show you what is working for me. If it suddenly stops working because the markets change then the only guarantee I can give you is that I will be losing money too, right infront of all your eyes because I am going to trade what I speak about.

Please, please, please, demo what you see and never use money you cannot afford to lose. Take things slowly and build up confidence in this method. The market is not going anywhere. There is plenty of time to learn this and use it profitably.

This is not going to be a signal service. I am not going to tell you buy X when it reaches Y - I will tell you what I am doing and why I am doing it. If you choose to follow me it is at your own risk. I don't think this is any different to keeping a journal. If anyone knows anything more about this regarding the legality, than I do, please tell me now!

 

[trader_dante]

If so, can I ask what your average time in Trade is and what your Max DD is?

Hi Chorlton,

I missed the latter part of this question the first time round.

Maximum individual trade drawdown has been 9.6%. That was back when the account was very small and I had little or no say in risk taken when trading at minimum size.

Even including this time when I was taking such risk, maximum weekly drawdown since I began trading the method has been 6%.

Current return on equity as of the Friday close is 2,164%.

 

[reddragon]

Hi,
I'm looking forward to you explaining your method, and ignore
the flamers .

 

[trader_dante]

Special thanks

Ok the last thing that needs to be done before I start is to credit everyone that helped me along the path.

First and foremost is the james16 Chart Thread over at Forex Factory. This man did more for my trading than any source I have come across in seven years. There is a huge amount of free information in his thread which taught me the fundamentals of price action and how to trade it profitably. There is also a private forum which is a paying service for subscribers. I am not here to sell that but I would like to say that I am a member and it an absolutely incredible source for all traders and an excellent value for money. There are systems and ideas on price action, money management and trading psychology in that forum that have turned many traders around. They will not be revealed here.

Secondly I would like to give credit to Phi Nell who also posts over on Forex Factory. He has several strategies that have gained a good following but I refer to his strategy called the "5m intraday system" which is the foundation of my EMA system. I have made some minor changes to it and of course trade it on the longer timeframes but credit for the idea must go to him. Since this is an actual system I have asked Phil Nel's permission to refer to it. This was his reply: "I have no problem with that. We are here to help people to gain success. You have my full permission and good luck with it. You can add this notes to the thread so that people can see you have my blessing on it - Phillip".

So I have taken these works and then added something discretionary to it. In short, I have combined them with my own experience in the market which has been fairly extensive spanning seven years.

I have done a lot of reading in that time. Some of the key books which have given me ideas / beliefs (and perhaps most importantly the peseverance to pursue this despite years of difficulty) are, in no particular order:

How I made $2,000,000 in the stock market - Nicolas Darvas
Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
The New Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
Stock Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
Bulls, Bears, & Brains - Adam Leitzes and Joshua Solan
Trend Following: How great traders make millions in up or down markets - Michael W. Covel
Technical Trading Online - Jerold Roth
High Probability Trading - Marcel Link
Reminiscences Of A Stock Operator - Edwin Lefevre
Jesse Livermore: World's Greatest Stock Trader - Richard Smitten
How To Trade In Stocks - Jesse Livermore
Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds - Charles Mackay

I would recommend these to all traders from amateur to highly experienced. I am a strong believer in keeping things simple and as a result I still read books that teach the basics even though I have now been doing this a long time.

I have found that most books, even if they are aimed at the beginner will often teach you something new. It may be that little piece of information or thought process that it sets off, that will take you down a new path that could lead to profitability.

 

[cats eyes]

hi trader_dante I,m a newbie to forex trading and found it very interesting reading your new thread. Looking forward to it starting.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

I have done a lot of reading in that time. Some of the key books which have given me ideas / beliefs (and perhaps most importantly the peseverance to pursue this despite years of difficulty) are, in no particular order:

How I made $2,000,000 in the stock market - Nicolas Darvas
Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
The New Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
Stock Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
Bulls, Bears, & Brains - Adam Leitzes and Joshua Solan
Trend Following: How great traders make millions in up or down markets - Michael W. Covel
Technical Trading Online - Jerold Roth
High Probability Trading - Marcel Link
Reminiscences Of A Stock Operator - Edwin Lefevre
Jesse Livermore: World's Greatest Stock Trader - Richard Smitten
How To Trade In Stocks - Jesse Livermore
Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds - Charles Mackay

I would recommend these to all traders from amateur to highly experienced. I am a strong believer in keeping things simple and as a result I still read books that teach the basics even though I have now been doing this a long time.

I have found that most books, even if they are aimed at the beginner will often teach you something new. It may be that little piece of information or thought process that it sets off, that will take you down a new path that could lead to profitability.

As you don't mention the only 3 authors of whom any notice should be taken whatsoever, Dr. Alexander Elder, Daryl Guppy and John Murphy, I can only conclude, along with your continual postponement of anything concrete or of substance, that You Sir are a Charlatan. or in other words, enough already, post something of value or get off the pot.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

I want to show you how to make money trading the markets.

trade a 21 RSI-ema x-over of the 21 RSI, coupled with a 8/15 EMA x-over, Stop Buys above last high for the next opening. that's all anyone ever needs to know.
enough already of this mystic danteism
there you go, the only money making system you'll ever need.

 

[new_trader]

Being very much a rookie here I am looking forward to hearing more on this! One question re your returns, are this based largely on one market or a good mixture?

I'd say a good imagination. But you won't believe me because you are a rookie. There are no shortcuts. OK? But you still won't be able to keep away from this thread. It has been very interesting to see who has expressed an interest in it. Hard to determine whether it is genuine or not....can't be genuine....surely....

 

[trader_dante]

I'd say a good imagination. But you won't believe me because you are a rookie. There are no shortcuts. OK?

I beg to differ. It depends what you mean by a shortcut. If anyone thinks they can learn this overnight then I think they are sincerely mistaken. However, if you don't think that someone with a good few years experience can impart some wisdom that it would take others a much longer time to naturally find out for themselves, then I think you are the one that is mistaken. Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you my account history.

 

[trader_dante]

trade a 21 RSI-ema x-over of the 21 RSI, coupled with a 8/15 EMA x-over, Stop Buys above last high for the next opening. that's all anyone ever needs to know.
enough already of this mystic danteism
there you go, the only money making system you'll ever need.

You heard him people. No need to read on!

Sounds good. Perhaps you'd be so good as to extoll your systems virtues - maybe by way of your account performance? We can compare

 

[new_trader]

I beg to differ. It depends what you mean by a shortcut. If anyone thinks they can learn this overnight then I think they are sincerely mistaken. However, if you don't think that someone with a good few years experience can impart some wisdom that it would take others a much longer time to naturally find out for themselves, then I think you are the one that is mistaken. Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you my account history.

I'm not interested in your account HISTORY. Make some LIVE CHARITY trades on your own account here on T2W. THAT will give you some credibility. Let me guess, this is the sort of system that makes it impossible to do that....

Live trade calls...nothing else matters...

At least OSCAR does that to a degree

http://www.futurestraders.com/

 

[rathcoole_exile]

You heard him people. No need to read on!

Sounds good. Perhaps you'd be so good as to extoll your systems virtues - maybe by way of your account performance? We can compare

I don't want to compare anything, i just want you to ****e or get off the pot after several pages of BS. But at least I openly state my methodology.

Poll ? Just do something ! Nobody cares if its EURUSD, Crude or Google. it'll be crap anyway so just get on with it.

 

[rols]

Surprising it took as many as 50 posts before the hecklers appeared.

Now here's a guy - dante - who has opened up to us all and sincerely (though IMO foolishly) offered to pass on some of his hard earned knowledge.

Does he have to get on his knees and beg to show a little generosity or are we all so battle weary and cynical that we wouldn't recognize a genuine offer if it smacked us in the nose?

He should consider (if he wants to continue) side stepping the messy bit where insults and flaming abound and go straight to private forum.

Plus ca change......

 

[black bear]

He Wrote It Down

trade a 21 RSI-ema x-over of the 21 RSI, coupled with a 8/15 EMA x-over, Stop Buys above last high for the next opening. that's all anyone ever needs to know.
enough already of this mystic danteism
there you go, the only money making system you'll ever need.

Hi Rathcoole,

Great post, a method wrote down and complete" ish

awards in the post

Post a couple of chart examples and I"ll award some more points to somebody else so I can give you some more

If you can"t write your method down you have"nt got one :!: what's his name

 

[bbmac]

Thank you for wanting to share your system/methodology. Although I have a trading edge that I am comfortable with, I for one will follow this thread with interest and an open mind, cause you never stop learning. Good luck.