Lost BIG this week - come here to talk.

[nitrader]

Hi All

I (like others here) followed someone on T2W and then on twitter.

I will not mention his name as he does not deserve any further thought or consideration.

I have received great help and support from the honest members of this site and want to thank them all, but don't want to take up their scalping thread anymore.

If you want to get your anger or feelings out then please post here and let it all out!

BUT - I want us all to have grown from this experience and NOT allow this "person" to drag us down.

If you like also please post your thoughts and how you intend to recover from this episode and to become a better trader/person in the future.

If you think this is all a bit touchy feely physco babble the please feel free to simple post.

Xxxx you are a F@cking C@@t and I hate you!

If that Twitter **** does want to post here and gloat then please just Feck Off back to the hole you crawled out of you insignificant excuse for a man.

 

[ACstudio]

1st----Why would anybody follow someone else's trades? O
2nd----Once you place the trade you own it. It doesn't matter what brought you to that decision....at some point it becomes your responsibility.
3rd----When I first started lurking forums I would find someone that made a lot of directional recommendations. Then I would go back through their posts and track the success and failure of previous recommendations ignoring obvious scalp type or daytrades. (simply because I don't scalp at this point). What I found was that whether you looked at 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months they would be right about 50% of the time. Meaning that at some point they might eventually be right. I did notice that those who tended to go long on positions that were correlated to the S&P they had a higher tendency to be right (since the market has been on a tear throughout that time) but still managed to under perform the actual S&P when averaged together.

My conclusion...nobody knows nothin'. Even Cramer has below a 50% for his show picks. I would expect that the total success or failure of trade suggestions or strategies would fall right into a standard bell curve distribution. I get more bang for the buck fading people that act like they have an edge.

 

[nitrader]

1st----Why would anybody follow someone else's trades? O


I guess because I thought that since they were having success that I may learn something from following their logic.

I don't really think that is a bad reason but I do 100% agree that not taking responsibility for the trade after entered is a bad error,
but not a bad as not placing a stop.

do you have much success fading other peoples direction?

 

[ACstudio]

do you have much success fading other peoples direction?

I do just fine whether I'm fading/following/flipping a coin or reading the entrails of my enemies. The results are about the same. For me it comes down to strategy management.

If you tell me the pick they made and an idea of an expected return on capital I would tell you the strategy I would have used for the same directional assumption.

 

[forker]

Oh man I know how that feel but not from following others signals, rather my own doing. When I started trading I had a few weeks of buildup success underpinned by an easy trend.At the very end I had made about 40k leveraged up to my ears on 150 a point. It all ended over the course of 4 days where the previous winnings all diminished into a margin call leaving me with practically an empty account.

I did it again about 6 months later in truly astonishing style on oil where I lost 8k in less than 10 seconds on some news announcement. I know your pain but you just have to pick yourself up, stop throwing money at this and start learning how to do it yourself. You might never make it and to be honest even having the determination to keep you at it is not guaranteed to be enough. I don't want to put salt on an open wound but this the reality you face. If you keep yourself open to ideas and sufficiently research in line with the way you want to trade you will be on the right road. If I can suggest anything else it would be to accelerate your trading through a good simulator that allows you to replay and pause historical data. This would enable you to gain experience fast and allow you to test your ideas rapidly.

Take a week or 2 off to clear your head and give you a fresh start

 

[ABTrading]

Hi All

I (like others here) followed someone on T2W and then on twitter.

I will not mention his name as he does not deserve any further thought or consideration.

I have received great help and support from the honest members of this site and want to thank them all, but don't want to take up their scalping thread anymore.

If you want to get your anger or feelings out then please post here and let it all out!

BUT - I want us all to have grown from this experience and NOT allow this "person" to drag us down.

If you like also please post your thoughts and how you intend to recover from this episode and to become a better trader/person in the future.

If you think this is all a bit touchy feely physco babble the please feel free to simple post.

Xxxx you are a F@cking C@@t and I hate you!

If that Twitter **** does want to post here and gloat then please just Feck Off back to the hole you crawled out of you insignificant excuse for a man.

You just learned a great lesson in trading, the tuition at the University of Wall Street is often high but the lessons learned there can not be learned anywhere else.

One of the first things you'll have to learn in trading is that you alone are responsible, you made the decision to follow someone else, he did not force you. I'm sorry for your losses but it is indeed a good lesson that must be learned early, if you don't accept that up front then you better look for another way to make money.

Also, unless someone is calling their trades before they are taken and you can follow the trade closely then take it with a grain of salt. Learn to make your own decisions in the market, if you don't know how to design your own trading system, then learn, and don't trade until you understand everything about your system, your edge, when it works, when it doesn't and what to expect.

So now that you know other people aren't going to lead you to riches, educate yourself and follow your own path to becoming a profitable trader.

Good Luck!

 

[itspossible]

https://twitter.com/KVolatility/status/534788411677503488

 

[nitrader]

Hi Forker

Many thanks for posting your story - wow you won and lost in BIG style!

I did not know about simulators so thanks!
also when my DAX trade is over I agree a break is in order!

Cheers

 

[nitrader]

You just learned a great lesson in trading, the tuition at the University of Wall Street is often high but the lessons learned there can not be learned anywhere else.

One of the first things you'll have to learn in trading is that you alone are responsible, you made the decision to follow someone else, he did not force you. I'm sorry for your losses but it is indeed a good lesson that must be learned early, if you don't accept that up front then you better look for another way to make money.

Also, unless someone is calling their trades before they are taken and you can follow the trade closely then take it with a grain of salt. Learn to make your own decisions in the market, if you don't know how to design your own trading system, then learn, and don't trade until you understand everything about your system, your edge, when it works, when it doesn't and what to expect.

So now that you know other people aren't going to lead you to riches, educate yourself and follow your own path to becoming a profitable trader.

Good Luck!

Thanks for your post.

Can't disagree with anything you have said - I need my own trading system and money management - I guess I hoped I would learn it as I went along

LESSON LEARNED - and it cost less than a Uni education these days!

 

[nitrader]

I do just fine whether I'm fading/following/flipping a coin or reading the entrails of my enemies. The results are about the same. For me it comes down to strategy management.

If you tell me the pick they made and an idea of an expected return on capital I would tell you the strategy I would have used for the same directional assumption.

Hi AC

You made a great point that I forgot.

I actually did a coin flip test just the week before to teach my 8 year old about probability but also to remind myself how many loses you can get in a row before you get a winner and how you have to control loss levels. I should have got my 8 year to trade for me!

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Oh man I know how that feel but not from following others signals, rather my own doing. When I started trading I had a few weeks of buildup success underpinned by an easy trend.At the very end I had made about 40k leveraged up to my ears on 150 a point. It all ended over the course of 4 days where the previous winnings all diminished into a margin call leaving me with practically an empty account.

I did it again about 6 months later in truly astonishing style on oil where I lost 8k in less than 10 seconds on some news announcement. I know your pain but you just have to pick yourself up, stop throwing money at this and start learning how to do it yourself. You might never make it and to be honest even having the determination to keep you at it is not guaranteed to be enough. I don't want to put salt on an open wound but this the reality you face. If you keep yourself open to ideas and sufficiently research in line with the way you want to trade you will be on the right road. If I can suggest anything else it would be to accelerate your trading through a good simulator that allows you to replay and pause historical data. This would enable you to gain experience fast and allow you to test your ideas rapidly.

Take a week or 2 off to clear your head and give you a fresh start

I've done something similar to you in the past (and more than once), but I must admit that 150 a point is truly heroic!

Agree with your advice to the OP (except I'd say a month or two, or in my case, year or two), and might add that perhaps we all need a large notice above our trading desk which reads "The only person responsible for your current predicament is YOU".

EDIT: A reason that "coin toss trading" can "work", is of course, that it takes the emotion out of the decision. Any system, even a bad one, can also do this if followed consistently, but of course, you still have to do the risk & money management properly.

 

[Wicked_Daddy]

Years ago I made a game with a friend of making all trade decisions on a coin toss. We used a demo account for safety but wanted to prove a point about MM and psychology. We traded the same stock but made our entries and exits on the toss of the coin. Of course, some exits were automatic if stops were hit, as we allowed ourselves the use of stops but not as trailing - only protective. The results were actually pretty interesting. We both exited after 1 week with a profit and we both enforced the value of MM and the psychology of approaching the market with a very mechanical mindset.

I've been tempted to do this again - I've made a few bad decisions recently that have dented my confidence. Five losers in a row that immediately reversed and rocketed almost the moment I exited the trade. Still can't wrap my head around what the hell went on with those trades... I need to get my head back into a mechanical, non-emotional mindset.

It's times like that I have to remind myself that trading beats the BS of corporate politics, A-hole bosses, employee issues, traffic and etc - even on my worst day.

 

[nitrader]

Hi Wicked_Daddy

The more I spend on looking at methods and looking at what went wrong / right with my trades I come back to the fact that the trading is limited by the mind and not the method.

I also did a coin toss, but with a dice - weighted in my favour - but it could still give losing runs of 5 in a row, even when the odds were 3:2 to me.

 

[tomorton]

nitrader - I admire your enthusiasm and determination to stick at this game.

There are good points already on this thread, many pointing to the fact that entries are secondary importance to exits, and trade management is how you get to the best exit.

Its good practice to have 2 exits in sight before you enter - a stop in case the trade goes against you (which a percentage inevitably do) plus your profit target. Both should be supported by TA, not £ loss you can live with or £ profit you would like.

 

[Wicked_Daddy]

Hi Wicked_Daddy

The more I spend on looking at methods and looking at what went wrong / right with my trades I come back to the fact that the trading is limited by the mind and not the method.

I also did a coin toss, but with a dice - weighted in my favour - but it could still give losing runs of 5 in a row, even when the odds were 3:2 to me.

True that. Every losing trade I have ever made was clearly my fault after a thorough analysis. Losing money pisses me off but beating myself due to stupid mistakes is the worst punishment of all.

 

[forker]

Perhaps your problem is rushing the process and taking shortcuts

 

[Splitlink]

I've always advised the placing of a stop. I may not do it at once but, that being the case, it is my fault if I get caught in a spike or if the site or computor crashes.

At the same time, I've read, so many times, that dealers look for my stops that, even after years of doing this, I have a nudging feeling that it could be true. When I get stopped, the market reverses, nearly always! So it anyone wants to know where my stops are, so that they can enter in reverse, I am sure that we could work out something beneficial to both of us.

This brings me to yesterdayt's FT. I entered short at 6489, with a stop a 6505- 5 points. The reasons for shorting, I am not going into, we've heard it all before. The question that I ask myself is "Why did I not reverse to long when it became clearer to me that the market was breaking up?

I seem to be too obstinate to accept that I could have been wrong, before. Or, is it that I do not want to be stopped out twice, quickly. I think its one of those psycho things. Please, please, tell me that I am not that, at this stage of the game.

 

[NVP]

hey there dude

we've all been there and bought the T shirt ..............just shrug it off and move on (bigger the loss the bigger the lesson) ............over the many years I can think of many dumnass thngs ive done that will always make me laugh ..heres a few

Bought into a company in Australia and then got deported and couldn't get my money back - despite my Aussies partners "best efforts" to repatriate me (yeah right ??)

bought precious jewels cheaply from a dealer in Thailand that I could sell on for wonderous profits in Australia when I got there .......

thought my rally prepared Audi Quattro could continue to travel at 140 mph up the A1 without hindrance from the local constabulary (spoilsports)

paid a lot of money for products in a MLM scam called Merchandise America back in the day .............but MLM is the future - right ?

put a substantial deposit down on some dubious Russian mobster sponsored apartments in Cyprus........(you go ask them for the money back - gulp)

bought so many damn worthless trading systems/training over the years it hurts .......(so snap to you sir)

been involved in far to many horseracing schemes (both sides of the fence) that cant remember ...............the one I remember most was significant disagreements with the guys at Goldline / Winchester club / Dorchester plan .jees so many names doing the same damn bad things

and so on and on and on ................we all live and learn (eventually)

don't beat yourself up dude ............millions of dollars a day are made /lost on many dubious activites............ and people much smarter than ourselves are conned !

N

 

[NVP]

Hi Wicked_Daddy

The more I spend on looking at methods and looking at what went wrong / right with my trades I come back to the fact that the trading is limited by the mind and not the method.

I also did a coin toss, but with a dice - weighted in my favour - but it could still give losing runs of 5 in a row, even when the odds were 3:2 to me.

not quite ..........but I suggest you bring your A game on both of those to the table to win in the long term...........

 

[Splitlink]

hey there dude

we've all been there and bought the T shirt ..............just shrug it off and move on (bigger the loss the bigger the lesson) ............over the many years I can think of many dumnass thngs ive done that will always make me laugh ..heres a few

Bought into a company in Australia and then got deported and couldn't get my money back - despite my Aussies partners "best efforts" to repatriate me (yeah right ??)

bought precious jewels cheaply from a dealer in Thailand that I could sell on for wonderous profits in Australia when I got there .......

thought my rally prepared Audi Quattro could continue to travel at 140 mph up the A1 without hindrance from the local constabulary (spoilsports)

paid a lot of money for products in a MLM scam called Merchandise America back in the day .............but MLM is the future - right ?

put a substantial deposit down on some dubious Russian mobster sponsored apartments in Cyprus........(you go ask them for the money back - gulp)

bought so many damn worthless trading systems/training over the years it hurts .......(so snap to you sir)

been involved in far to many horseracing schemes (both sides of the fence) that cant remember ...............the one I remember most was significant disagreements with the guys at Goldline / Winchester club / Dorchester plan .jees so many names doing the same damn bad things

and so on and on and on ................we all live and learn (eventually)

don't beat yourself up dude ............millions of dollars a day are made /lost on many dubious activites............ and people much smarter than ourselves are conned !

N

I know what the difference is between us. You think bigger than I do!