How To Trade: Full Stop

[The Expert]

1. USA
2. Only $20,000 (lost all my money multiple times, I can lose again, but I'm not going to, never again)
3. Single
4. 0 Kids
5. Yes......normal job
6. All day (until my company notices I don't do anything)

Please don't tell me I don't have enough money. Even if I have to start making tiny but consistent profits I'll take it. Plus I can keep saving more.

I"m also not a total newbie. I trade worse than one though. I was a stockbroker (glorified telemarketer) at one of the deep discount brokers a few years ago. I've traded stocks, options, NQ futures for about 12 years. Never had a profitable year. Never !

Now you have me thinking, but as others may benefit, I will continue.

1. USA - that puts you at a major disadvantage right away, and you can thank your regulators for that
2. $20K will not get you past the pattern rule, so you will have to go with one of the prop firms and put in no more than $5K dollars, keep the rest as you will need it if you listen to what they try and teach:cheesy:
3. Big advantage here
4. Big advantage here
5. Good - you need to have a normal job until you know EXACTLY what you are doing
6. Be careful, as you must be just and honest, else you will get caught out and might end up one sorry person. Why not swingtrade after work, with just the occasional look during the day, and get that working first:?:

I had many unprofitable years, and, I made big money and then lost it again, more than once

Now, after all that I am a better person and a far better trader, as, there is no substitute for experience, no matter what anyone tells you, so, with that, what do you think is the most important thing for you to do now:?:

TE

 

[MacAttack]

Now you have me thinking, but as others may benefit, I will continue.

1. USA - that puts you at a major disadvantage right away, and you can thank your regulators for that
2. $20K will not get you past the pattern rule, so you will have to go with one of the prop firms and put in no more than $5K dollars, keep the rest as you will need it if you listen to what they try and teach:cheesy:
3. Big advantage here
4. Big advantage here
5. Good - you need to have a normal job until you know EXACTLY what you are doing
6. Be careful, as you must be just and honest, else you will get caught out and might end up one sorry person. Why not swingtrade after work, with just the occasional look during the day, and get that working first:?:

I had many unprofitable years, and, I made big money and then lost it again, more than once

Now, after all that I am a better person and a far better trader, as, there is no substitute for experience, no matter what anyone tells you, so, with that, what do you think is the most important thing for you to do now:?:

TE

I've been doing next-to-nothing at my job for a few years now. Nobody seems to care, but I don't go around advertising it. Weird place.

I think the most important thing I need to do is come up with a plan, because I guarantee I'm never trading without one ever again. And once I have a plan I'm going to test it until I am extremely confident in it. I'm just having a heck of a time with a plan because I have so much misinformation in my head and I'm not sure what I "should" be concentrating on. I feel like I'm lost in the woods and I don't have the skills to find my way out. So right now I'm hunkered down in my tent and not moving until I have a plan.

What about trading futures until I get some more capital? Is there just not as much edge there as US stocks?

 

[The Expert]

I've been doing next-to-nothing at my job for a few years now. Nobody seems to care, but I don't go around advertising it. Weird place.

I think the most important thing I need to do is come up with a plan, because I guarantee I'm never trading without one ever again. And once I have a plan I'm going to test it until I am extremely confident in it. I'm just having a heck of a time with a plan because I have so much misinformation in my head and I'm not sure what I "should" be concentrating on. I feel like I'm lost in the woods and I don't have the skills to find my way out. So right now I'm hunkered down in my tent and not moving until I have a plan.

What about trading futures until I get some more capital? Is there just not as much edge there as US stocks?

If you were living in Australia, or Europe, then maybe, but as you are stuck in the US, then your odds are greatly reduced, again, all thx to your regulators

It is up to each and every trader to find out what works best for him/her.

The one that makes the most money is the best, always

TE

 

[MacAttack]

If you were living in Australia, or Europe, then maybe, but as you are stuck in the US, then your odds are greatly reduced, again, all thx to your regulators

It is up to each and every trader to find out what works best for him/her.

The one that makes the most money is the best, always

TE

That's kind of what I thought. Once you have the essentials down trade whatever the heck you want to trade if you determine it's the best, enter using whatever trigger you want to use. Trade whatever strategy you want to trade. It'll be different for different people.

 

[timsk]

1% is WAY TOO HIGH for a newbie starting to learn about daytrading.

In fact, if I was mentoring someone I would not allow them risk any more than .15% per trade, and if I caught him/her doing otherwise I would give them one almighty KICK up the rear end :cheesy:

I know I said that there are no rules but to make money, but, no rules means exactly that, which means that having no rules is not a rule

There are certain KEY phrases that every newbie must memorize, and for daytrading US stocks, one is as follows.

"If I can't make money trading 100 shares, then how the hell am I going to make money trading 5000 shares" :smart:

Never be afraid to be a baby

Forget about the experts, excluding The Expert, of course

What you do not like to hear, is usually what you should be hearing:whistling

TE

Hi TE,
You've quoted my post in yours which leads me to conclude that you are responding to the points I made in some way. Either I'm mistaken about this, or you've accidentally quoted the wrong post. As it stands, your post is something of a non-sequitur. For example, you start off by saying that 1% is way too high for a newbie which implies (to me, anyway) that I've recommended this in my post. I've made no reference whatsoever to percentages of equity to risk and, for the record, in general terms I agree with you on this issue. Additionally, none of your subsequent points address the issue of volatility - which was the real point of my post.
Tim.

 

[Trader333]

2. $20K will not get you past the pattern rule,

There are ways around this even for those resident in the US and still be able to use DMA to day-trade stocks.


Paul

 

[Geraldo]

About Full Stop, I can say that for an experienced prices-reader, this signal can also generate considerable profitable trading opportunities, mostly signalling beginnings of short-time price trends

 

[temporarilylight]

There are ways around this even for those resident in the US and still be able to use DMA to day-trade stocks.


Paul

You mean an offshore broker, like 'alliance' for example?
Thing is, people looking for alternatives to bypass the PDT rule will likely be trading very small size, and the commissions and erroneous costs charged at these sorts of places would kill wipe out any profit and then some!

What else is there: Maybe a remote prop firm where you put down $5k and they topup your account to be able to daytrade?

Are we missing anything? This question pops up from time to time, but people generally just say 'there are ways around it' without being specific. Are there rules that im unaware of which would be broken in discussing such things?
cheers

 

[Trader333]

You mean an offshore broker, like 'alliance' for example?

No I didn't mean this.

Thing is, people looking for alternatives to bypass the PDT rule will likely be trading very small size, and the commissions and erroneous costs charged at these sorts of places would kill wipe out any profit and then some!

Not necessarily. It is possible to join a trading group where commissions are less than even IB.


Paul

 

[temporarilylight]

'Trading groups' - Not really hears that term before
any links out of interest?

 

[avasfx]

2-5 cents

What do you mean by that??

We must have a daily target, otherwise we have no plan

OK, lets' assume that we have average daily ranges, and it is 1 dollar. So our target should be at around 1 dollar? I would say 80% of that range would be OK, just to be sure . Why can't we use for example trailing stop to get everything from the stock what it can give us?

When you have an objective to achieve, the mind works differently than when not having an objective:smart:

Absolutely agree!

The market will give you, or take away from you, exactly what YOU allow, for, if you have a small loss and let it get bigger then that is YOUR fault, if YOU have a nice profit and let it half in a few seconds/minutes, then that is also YOUR fault, and so on and so forth.

Agree, if i allow some amount of cents for price to go against me - that's all i am going to give away. I think that most people are smart enough not to make bigger their risks...

The reality is such that you MUST make good money, else you are just wasting YOUR time and before not too long YOU will get fed up and give up, like most do

Making good money is great, but to achieve it trader should have experience - a lot of screen time, practice and skills! So at the beginning i think new traders have just to survive with 100 - 200 shares, working for experience rather than money, controlling their risks.

IMHO of cource

 

[The Expert]

No I didn't mean this.



Not necessarily. It is possible to join a trading group where commissions are less than even IB.


Paul

OK then Paul, give some names and we will see exactkly what they have to offer, and give an honest answer as to the setup.

TE

 

[The Expert]

what do you mean by that??

2-5 censt is crazy and only for those who trade with other peoples money


ok, lets' assume that we have average daily ranges, and it is 1 dollar. So our target should be at around 1 dollar? I would say 80% of that range would be ok, just to be sure . Why can't we use for example trailing stop to get everything from the stock what it can give us?

because your stop will have a 90% chance of being hit as soon as you move it up


Absolutely agree!


Agree, if i allow some amount of cents for price to go against me - that's all i am going to give away. I think that most people are smart enough not to make bigger their risks...



Making good money is great, but to achieve it trader should have experience - a lot of screen time, practice and skills! So at the beginning i think new traders have just to survive with 100 - 200 shares, working for experience rather than money, controlling their risks.

yes, 100 to 200 shares at first, but not for too long, else one will never make money:smart:

If you do as everyone else does you will get the same as everyone else, remember

Imho of cource

te

 

[MacAttack]

How do you pick which stocks and which setups to concentrate on in the morning?

If you have a watch list of 15 stocks for instance each one is probably going to have a little different setup. One may gap down, one might gap up, one may open even, one might consolidate and then breakout, one might run from the open and then pullback, etc, etc, etc...........

How do you pick? You don't want to have all these choices and then end up picking the 1 or 2 that go nowhere or the unlucky 1 or 2 that end up going down when everything else goes up.

 

[GammaJammer]

Because we need a goal. XT is the goal. To reach the goal we need to create a plan.

Surely X/T is the goal (large values thereof)

X TIMES T (implied when saying XT) is kinda meaningless.

 

[timsk]

How do you pick which stocks and which setups to concentrate on in the morning?

If you have a watch list of 15 stocks for instance each one is probably going to have a little different setup. One may gap down, one might gap up, one may open even, one might consolidate and then breakout, one might run from the open and then pullback, etc, etc, etc...........

How do you pick? You don't want to have all these choices and then end up picking the 1 or 2 that go nowhere or the unlucky 1 or 2 that end up going down when everything else goes up.

Mac,
What you describe is a skill all of its own and it's one I never really got to grips with when I day traded US equities. Every market has its pro's and con's and this is perhaps the biggest downside to equities. That and the screen real estate that charts, scans and what have you for your 15 stocks take up. As I always had a chart of the relevant index futures in view and spent as much time monitoring that as I did individual stocks, I concluded that I my life might be a whole lot simpler if I just traded the futures. The switch has - in one fell swop - solved all these problems. Unfortunately, they have been replaced by some new ones! Horses for courses etc.
Tim.

 

[The Expert]

How do you pick which stocks and which setups to concentrate on in the morning?

If you have a watch list of 15 stocks for instance each one is probably going to have a little different setup. One may gap down, one might gap up, one may open even, one might consolidate and then breakout, one might run from the open and then pullback, etc, etc, etc...........

How do you pick? You don't want to have all these choices and then end up picking the 1 or 2 that go nowhere or the unlucky 1 or 2 that end up going down when everything else goes up.

I only pick those that have the best odds of making me money, or, will not lose me too much in case the trade goes against me

One thing I do not do is look at any TA indicators what so ever, and, if I do look at volume it is each and every transaction size for the last 40-50 prints

The difference is this, when I LOOK, I SEE certain things that others do not see, and, it is this different way of looking that gives you the required edge, if you want to call it that, I prefer to say, "that makes you money":clap:

Let all the idiots talk about fractals, stochs, boll bands, bla, bla, bla, bla, for, what that really means is that they have not discovered the CORRECT way to look at a market so that the odds are in YOUR favor, most of the time

TE