Level 2 Screen Use is DEAD !

triplepack said:
You have to monitor for a time and then you can then see at decision times/points their influence coming into play , most of the time subtly, but then as obvious as the nose on your face. Then the move happens.
Click to expand...

Triplepack, as an ex student well done! you're reading the story.
I dont know where to see Brut's ecn book.You can view the major ecn books at http://www.archipelago.com/

Its not easy,it takes time to get to grips with it.However in my opinion put it together with t/a and you'll see the moves on decent stocks set up before any chartist could.Which of course gives you such an edge.
 
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Naz, would you agree with Gerard's (and Trader333's) point that the Ax only shows his hands when it's a fake?

As Gerard says, given the options for masking or even completely hiding his intentions, and the commercial motivation to do so, why would any Ax choose to play an open hand?
 
Naz, would you agree with Gerard's (and Trader333's) point that the Ax only shows his hands when it's a fake?

My guess would be that he would show ordinary run of the mill trading when not planning a move. Otherwise it defeats the object. If he only showed on a fake, everyone would be expecting the move!
 
I think people have misunderstood what I said here with regard to what the Ax may or may not intend so I will clarify it. I did not say that the Ax "ONLY" fakes intended moves but that you can spot certain incidences of when he does, ie using very large size or sitting on the inside Bid with a size of only 1 whilst T&S is seeing nothing but trades going off on the bid and he is buying all of the stock.

The Ax will signal intetntion if and when it suits him, sometimes it will be fake and sometimes he doesnt care that others know his intention.

With regard to "Total View" I have looked at this and it is a waste of money in my view and doesnt give any better information than the basic level II screen.

For those who wish to find a way of determining who the Ax is then esignal do have an option on their level II screen that identifies how often each MM has been on the inside Bid or inside Ask. The only problem with this is that the Ax can change at different times during the day.

Using Level II is an essential part of my trading strategy for market entry but I do not even attempt to identify the Ax any more because the way I use Level II means that I dont need to.


Paul
 
Using Level II is an essential part of my trading strategy for market entry but I do not even attempt to identify the Ax any more because the way I use Level II means that I dont need to.

How can this be? If the ax is the key power player, surely you need to know who it is.
 
Not for the way I use Level II which I am pretty sure is different to everyone else but works for me.


Paul
 
I ALWAYS need to know if there is an axe actually active or not. With some stocks there often isn't so he/she is not significant. Some of the time they become an active participant when they are trying to move the price. You need to know so that you can identify when they do become active as that may well be important.
Some of the time I use level 2 in a different way which is very, very effective.
What is essential to remember is that a single image on screen of level 2 is like a still photo of a war situation - it might tell you something, but incorporating level 2 into your trading requires the equivalent of ongoing video footage.
Level 2 trading is war - you need to know what you are doing and I have yet to meet the person who can teach themselves how to fight such a war.
Although each to his/her own way of doing things if they work, (which is what matters, of course,) I'm sure Naz, as the other very experienced level 2 player here, would agree with this.
 
I still don’t see why an Ax would want to reveal his/her identity when they are working a stock. If a MM has a big order to buy a stock he/she is going to have to buy a number of lots. This will naturally tend to push the price up and result in a higher average price for the client. Continually placing orders on the inside bid will attract attention and bring in the daytraders. They will want to buy and can only do so by posting orders higher than the Ax thereby driving up prices quicker.

Perhaps MMs have a technique of attracting buyers and then dumping stock to collapse the price to lower so they can begin accumulating at a better price. In this case I can see that advertising you’re the Ax would be good. Overall the price might slowly go up like saw teeth.

Any MMs like to comment –yeah well no harm in asking but perhaps some ex MM traders might.

Gerard
 
That's the whole art of manipulation. The ax can put offers in while buying through brokers.
 
On the OVTI trade I watched, trying to figure out what the mms where thinking could be useful.
I would say that they arent always trying to sucker traders into losing their cash but trying to trade themselves (unfortunately the result can be the same we lose ) using some of the bigger calibre guns available.
In the couple of hours in the trade on OVTI the price action was in congestion trading between 16.05 and 16.20. What he could have been doing (the overall trend for the stock was down btw ) is, buying his stock at 16.05 and later on pushing it up, just a bit to around the 16.15-16.20 area selling, then letting it pullback to 16.05 to buy some more cheaper (wouldnt you do that ?)
Interestingly his move away from the best bid was around 20:45ish .He probably said,"time to pack the bags and off the to the pub ". Then the move down came.

I would imagine another scenario could be, that as the stock was in a down trend his strategy to flip bid-ask may have been starting to get a bit overwhelming at that 16.05 point and his conclusion would be cant hold at this point anymore time to let the market as a whole do what it wants aand again drops away.

Interesting to hear of anybody elses perceived scenarios apart from the big orders etc., that they have been able to interperet.

Cheers

Triplepack
 
I agree with Richard when he says "each to his/her own way of doing things if they work "

I've seen Paul, Trader 333 at one of my larger seminars and for 1-2-1.I can tell he's taken things and used the skills in his way.Triplepack has taken the skills and used them in his way.

I've traded with arguably one of the best Nasdaq level 2 traders in the US.I've taken some things from him and added it to some of my styles of trading.

The one key thing is we all use level 2 Nasdaq to get an edge.For me shadowing the ax is only one small part of using level 2 Nasdaq.But it always seems to be the thing that many talk about.

For instance if i get a strong move right on the open,there's no way i'm shadowing the axe.There is no way i'm even glancing at a chart.I'm just going to trade momentum right there in the screen.For that you need the hottest stocks out there and feel totally confident with your trading platform.ie level 2 direct access. In these moves you need to be 100% in control of your position,again the platform gives you this.

If your serious about day trading the Nasdaq in my opinion that is the tool you need to do the job.You need to learn how it works,practise and feel totally confident using it and then take it and use it in a style of trading that you feel comfortable with.

Is is dead? No way.
 
In view of the title of this thread and the comments, I thought I'd post my first trade this pm which was using level 2 my way.
Short SYMC, then covered half, then covered the other half a few seconds later.
Without level 2, this particular trade would have been impossible.
39c profit in a fast moving stock in just over 1 minute flat. There are many similar trades on the "Trading the US the Naz/Mr. Charts Way" thread if anyone is interested.
Yes this was a live trade in front of a friend I'm coaching in how I trade this way day after day.
Richard
 

Attachments

  • SYMCearlyshort150604.GIF
    SYMCearlyshort150604.GIF
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Mr. Charts said:
In view of the title of this thread and the comments, I thought I'd post my first trade this pm which was using level 2 my way.
Without it, this particular trade would have been impossible.
39c profit in a fast moving stock in just over 1 minute flat. There are many similar trades on the "Trading the US the Naz/Mr. Charts Way" thread if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

Hi Richard

Don't see the attachment, have a feeling this may be due to the move to the new domain ? Sharky ?

Cheers

Stew
 
Stew,
If you can't see it by tonight, let me know and I'll email it to you.
The chart shows no reason to have entered the trade or exited it.
My use of Level 2 told me what was going to happen before it showed on the chart and position management dictated the trade.

Richard
 
oatman said:
I can view it OK
Click to expand...
Thanks Oatman & JonnyT, I guess it is another setting on my side screwed up by the move. Will double check everything again...

I just see an empty box with no attachments. Don't worry Richard, I'd noticed missing attachments before but assumed it was a site wide problem rather than an issue on my end.

Cheers

Stew
 
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