Best Thread Keynes Vs. Hayek

I see the Swiss are going to try subsidising a minimum income of about £1,700 per month. The UK manages a measly £320 per month. Obviously it is better for the economy if the poor have money to spend. The capitalists seem to favour giving even more money to the rich in tax breaks etc. Their spending won't increase at all. A simple point that the world's economists are blind to and have been so for decades and they are meant to be clever.

Neither Keynes nor Hayek. Just good common sense
 
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Swiss know more about economics

I see the Swiss are going to try subsidising a minimum income of about £1,700 per month. The UK manages a measly £320 per month. Obviously it is better for the economy if the poor have money to spend. The capitalists seem to favour giving even more money to the rich in tax breaks etc. Their spending won't increase at all. A simple point that the world's economists are blind to and have been so for decades and they are meant to be clever.

Neither Keynes nor Hayek. Just good common sense

It's a good thing the Swiss know more about economics than you do Pat!

Switzerland's voters rejects basic income plan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36454060

Swiss voters have overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to introduce a guaranteed basic income for all.

Final results from Sunday's referendum showed that nearly 77% opposed the plan, with only 23% backing it.

The proposal had called for adults to be paid an unconditional monthly income, whether they worked or not.


Critics of the measure said that disconnecting the link between work done and money earned would have been bad for society.

Something anti-Capitalists will never understand...free money for people is bad for society.
 
I see the Swiss are going to try subsidising a minimum income of about £1,700 per month. The UK manages a measly £320 per month. Obviously it is better for the economy if the poor have money to spend. The capitalists seem to favour giving even more money to the rich in tax breaks etc. Their spending won't increase at all. A simple point that the world's economists are blind to and have been so for decades and they are meant to be clever.

Neither Keynes nor Hayek. Just good common sense


This is something that has been floating around and will gain more dominance as jobs become more scarce with greater automation and robots take over.

Will become more common in debates.


As for our sea-gull like friend who fies in to crap on debates and then flies-off with his tail between his web feet, squawks to be put on ignore only to quote one of my references for attention. :LOL:

Since the crash 2007-8 we have had 8 years of growth and recovery and he is still talking about being proven right.

I'm dying to know if our bird brain is still holding on to his gold from 1600s and why his calling for rise in interest rates when there is no inflation? Clueless!

Low interest rates assist with ROI and with liquidity provided by CBs effectively avoided the severe and prolonged recession of 1929. In fact despite the magnitude of this recessions it wasn't as bad as the one induced by Mrs Thatcher when unemployment reached higher % with the decimation of manufacturing.


fwiw the HS2 project can be perceived as Keynes type investment in infrastructure by government to stimulate investment up and down the country. :idea:
 
This is something that has been floating around and will gain more dominance as jobs become more scarce with greater automation and robots take over.
Talking about automation, Barclays I hear replaced cashiers in a branch my wife went to, there are just machines now. I guess that's the future. :)
 
Talking about automation, Barclays I hear replaced cashiers in a branch my wife went to, there are just machines now. I guess that's the future. :)

Yep, pretty much like the checkouts in Supermarkets.

Airports started introducing partial self check-ins too.

AI technology, speech recognition and expert systems all around us.

As for food, anyone seen these yogurts? There is approx 1-2cm missing from the bottom and at 125mg it's effectively about 50p a spoon. Manufacturing the container and packaging costs more than the contents. http://collections.lopolis.com/archives/2006/06/26/yoplait-good-yogurt-bad-container-design/


article-2205869-0D3F0A2900000578-416_468x427.jpg


Basically, to shrink fat and calorie units which people look at, simply keep or make packaging look big but shrink content. Simple. ;)

Rob Dickerson, senior global packaged food analyst at Consumer Edge Research, said in a phone interview that downsizing has occurred for "quite some time" among packaged food companies, which want to sell as little product as they can for the highest price possible.

"On average, usually when you're reducing the amount of product per unit, you're doing it because you want to have a lower price point on the shelf that the consumer sees so your product doesn't seem as expensive," he said. "It's a strategy that allows the consumer to still get some of the product at a price point that seems that more affordable without reducing profitability."


Capitalism rocks :LOL:


What ever next. GM cheese and yogurt they'll be produce without animals or dairy :rolleyes:

Coming to a supermarket near you very soon. :devilish:
 
Yep, pretty much like the checkouts in Supermarkets.

Airports started introducing partial self check-ins too.

AI technology, speech recognition and expert systems all around us.

As for food, anyone seen these yogurts? There is approx 1-2cm missing from the bottom and at 125mg it's effectively about 50p a spoon. Manufacturing the container and packaging costs more than the contents. http://collections.lopolis.com/archives/2006/06/26/yoplait-good-yogurt-bad-container-design/


article-2205869-0D3F0A2900000578-416_468x427.jpg


Basically, to shrink fat and calorie units which people look at, simply keep or make packaging look big but shrink content. Simple. ;)

Rob Dickerson, senior global packaged food analyst at Consumer Edge Research, said in a phone interview that downsizing has occurred for "quite some time" among packaged food companies, which want to sell as little product as they can for the highest price possible.

"On average, usually when you're reducing the amount of product per unit, you're doing it because you want to have a lower price point on the shelf that the consumer sees so your product doesn't seem as expensive," he said. "It's a strategy that allows the consumer to still get some of the product at a price point that seems that more affordable without reducing profitability."


Capitalism rocks :LOL:


What ever next. GM cheese and yogurt they'll be produce without animals or dairy :rolleyes:

Coming to a supermarket near you very soon. :devilish:

Been trying the dairy free lifestyle for a couple of years now.

Just can't kick eggs or dairy milk in tea.

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/dairy-free-shopping-list.php
 
Been trying the dairy free lifestyle for a couple of years now.

Just can't kick eggs or dairy milk in tea.

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/dairy-free-shopping-list.php

Well this is what TTIP is about with the US and EU agreement.

What people don't know is TTIP is the back door for GM to get into EU.

Thus far Germany and France don't like the deal and UK sponsoring US as always.
http://www.politico.eu/article/french-trade-minister-us-must-move-or-ttip-is-dead/

This one is very serious! Giving power to industrial group to sue Government courts. The same BREXITERS make a big song and dance about sovereignty but happy to let US have their way with their industrialist trumping our judicial law courts. Absolute shocking freaking madness. Wake up you sleepy logger heads!!!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35503885


NOW THIS IS VERY STRANGE... Cameron backs TTIP and UK position in EU supports TTIP. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/04/david-cameron-political-courage-ttip-trade-deal

However, BREXITERS will tell you that they are against it and EU supports TTIP. If they were they'd be infavour of our counterparts in EU resisting TTIP.

Very difficult for your average British Joe to judge whats what?


This is why together we are stronger and not all votes against us in the EU is against the British public. Damn bleeding lies and statistics distorting truths.

John Major is right. Thatcher's love child that he has become.

That's the problem with the Tories, very difficult to determine who's screwing who these days. :-0
 
What a swell recovery this is...

I'm not the one who has hissy fits and puts people on ignore :rolleyes:

Economically illiterate imbeciles can say whatever they want about the so called "recovery", but who are you going to believe, them or your lying eyes?

It's clear from the chart that all the FED's cheap money has gone into pumping up the stock market. The markets haven't made a new high in over 52 Weeks, roughly around the time the FED ended Q.E.

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But for the man in the street?

It's obvious, the FED's cheap money policy has helped Wall Street but it has not helped the man in the street.

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As for Automation: The economically illiterate dunces will never figure out the connection between the rise in Automation and the rise in the Minimum wage. If you make unskilled labour more expensive then businessmen are going to find ways around paying it!

If you ever get a chance to watch "How it's made" on the Discovery channel you will be amazed at how many things are made by machines. This is exactly the reason why those items are so easily affordable for so many people, including the poor! If all those items were made by humans, by hand, the cost for those items will become prohibitively expensive and the standard of living for most people would decline.
 

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I'm not the one who has hissy fits and puts people on ignore :rolleyes:

Economically illiterate imbeciles can say whatever they want about the so called "recovery", but who are you going to believe, them or your lying eyes?

It's clear from the chart that all the FED's cheap money has gone into pumping up the stock market. The markets haven't made a new high in over 52 Weeks, roughly around the time the FED ended Q.E.

Yes this is true. Money sloshing in the system can go either in to stocks and shares or tangibles like property. That way with capital gains, dividend income or in the case of property, capital gains and rental income one is able to protect ones savings and assets.

Alternatively, keeping money in savings accounts or buying commodities when shares are rising is just a recipee for a big loss.




attachment.php



But for the man in the street?

It's obvious, the FED's cheap money policy has helped Wall Street but it has not helped the man in the street.

attachment.php





As for Automation: The economically illiterate dunces will never figure out the connection between the rise in Automation and the rise in the Minimum wage. If you make unskilled labour more expensive then businessmen are going to find ways around paying it!

If you ever get a chance to watch "How it's made" on the Discovery channel you will be amazed at how many things are made by machines. This is exactly the reason why those items are so easily affordable for so many people, including the poor! If all those items were made by humans, by hand, the cost for those items will become prohibitively expensive and the standard of living for most people would decline.


fwiw NT I'd forget about the level of the price index and just focus on the economic cycle.

There is a great book by Murphy called Intermarket Technical Analysis that explains Bonds v Stocks, Commodities v Dollar and the Dollar v interest rates and stocks.

These markets are obviously cyclical and their phases vary.

One day you will be right yes. It may be in the next couple of weeks. However, you really should read more.

I notice you haven't shown what happened before Obama picked up the mantle piece from Bushy boy Jnr... Why is that? ;)
 
It mostly comes down to whether you think money or people are more important.
I agree some people make the decision hard. Governments should put the welfare of the people first imho
 
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FOMC Meeting

What I expect to happen.

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Why do you want them to raise rates?

Curve Inflation?
Reduce Investment?
Reward Savers?
 
Govt's around the globe should be aiming to cut spending and raising interest rates imho.

About time Govt. workers were paid to run the NHS etc. as to what the country can afford not to what the annual pay round rise can squeeze out of the Govt.
 
Govt's around the globe should be aiming to cut spending and raising interest rates imho.

About time Govt. workers were paid to run the NHS etc. as to what the country can afford not to what the annual pay round rise can squeeze out of the Govt.

That'll be death nails in to the recovery coffin.

Strap your selves in for the ride if that were the case.


imo - keep rates low, cut spending and raise taxation to balance books asap.
 
Mainstream FED cheerleaders are waking up!

Economically illiterate imbeciles can say whatever they want about the so called "recovery", but who are you going to believe, them or your lying eyes?

Bye, bye "recovery" that never was...hello more Q.E and more Q.E...

 
Bizarro World

That'll be death nails in to the recovery coffin.

Strap your selves in for the ride if that were the case.


imo - keep rates low, cut spending and raise taxation to balance books asap.

Dollar charges to 14-year high, bonds in full swing
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKBN13D040

"There are expectations for tax cuts next year - which were part of the Trump campaign's promises - and then there's also the idea of what type of fiscal boost are you going to have. That's what's driving asset prices – it's people's expectations for the fiscal impulse next year," he said.

On top of all this the US FED is expected to hike interest rates...and the stock market's response is...UP! :LOL:

This must really be confusing to dumbass Keynesians...:LOL:
 
Dollar charges to 14-year high, bonds in full swing
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKBN13D040



On top of all this the US FED is expected to hike interest rates...and the stock market's response is...UP! :LOL:

This must really be confusing to dumbass Keynesians...:LOL:


NT you still bitching about what exactly?

The policy of low interest rates has averted a painful World Global recession and it has been how long exactly.

As the US economy recovers and unemployment has fallen below 6% rates can be raised. So what's the big deal with your post?

fwiw Monetary policy has to be complemented by fiscal policy. It simply doesn't work on its own. Governments only now coming round to considering infrastructure and fiscal stimulus.

You still counting your gold sovereigns each night before you go to bed? :LOL:

How's that gold trade working out for you?


Life's a beach and then you drown? Make sure you learn to swim (y)
 
ding
ding derdingding
schlip
ddddddddddddingadongadingding! :LOL:

be right one day tho, cant not be :|:p
 
NT you still bitching about what exactly?

The policy of low interest rates has averted a painful World Global recession and it has been how long exactly.

As the US economy recovers and unemployment has fallen below 6% rates can be raised. So what's the big deal with your post?

fwiw Monetary policy has to be complemented by fiscal policy. It simply doesn't work on its own. Governments only now coming round to considering infrastructure and fiscal stimulus.

You still counting your gold sovereigns each night before you go to bed? :LOL:

How's that gold trade working out for you?


Life's a beach and then you drown? Make sure you learn to swim (y)

You said only a few months ago "keep rates low, cut spending and raise taxation to balance books asap."

Trump's stimulus plans involve cutting taxes, increasing Government spending and it looks as though the Fed is going to start hiking rates...and the stock market appears to like it...or so the mainstream media would have us believe.

I was expecting a more informed reply to the apparent contradiction but what I get is a bitter puerile one...

As for my gold investment, stay tuned to my journal (y)
 
You said only a few months ago "keep rates low, cut spending and raise taxation to balance books asap."

Trump's stimulus plans involve cutting taxes, increasing Government spending and it looks as though the Fed is going to start hiking rates...and the stock market appears to like it...or so the mainstream media would have us believe.

I was expecting a more informed reply to the apparent contradiction but what I get is a bitter puerile one...

As for my gold investment, stay tuned to my journal (y)


How much has the stock market risen compared to 2008? Put it in perspective before claiming you are right. Simply that it hasn't fallen and expectation is for him to curtail his rhetoric.

Has it become policy yet? Have they passed their bills to spend more and give away 5 trillion tax breaks?

Now when you post your dumbass I'm so freaking right posts try and be civil and comment what you exactly mean with some facts or numbers.


What do you think about the new emerging emphasis on fiscal policy and infrastructure investment? Any opinions? Does it not point to Keynesian bias?


Cheers (y)
 
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