I honestly CAN recommend that anyone develops, or follows up an interest in trading..

[N Rothschild]

Of course not. Plenty of comedy value here for free.
Look, your friend ODT recc'd your post!


Peter

i know i think i might retract my statement after it was endorsed by that clown

 

[N Rothschild]

Of course it is very possible.

Richard Dennis started with all of 400 bucks remember your history lessons people, and went on to turn that into hundreds of millions ?

Jesse Livermore started with nothing and became what in todays money would have been a Billionaire. (And yeah yeah I know he blew up a couple of times and later shot himself but he also suffered from clinical depression yada yada !)

Our very own TWI here who is at a hedge fund now and started out at a prop firm wrote this about the returns his colleagues were generating:

Many people think if you make 20-30% a year that you are doing brilliantly well. Many here will make 50-100% per month. It is not a methodology you could apply to large amounts of capital such as fund trading but for individuals accounts it cannot be bettered.

Or remember this incredible guy here who is still doing very well from trading his own account:

55000 % in ONE month !

Lot's of things are possible if you open your minds and align the forces of teh Universe behind you !

Of course only few are chosen while many feel called, but that's the same everywhere, and that's not to say it can't be done, the evidence is clearly there that it can be done.

so like a handfull of people in the last century, out of possibly millions? yes your right its so doable.

 

[N Rothschild]

In your opinon Roths (I've read many posts from you over the years and respect your opinions) do you think it's possible to make a modest living from a 5-10k account?

There are people who want to become rich, then there are people who want to make a living.

Is the term rich subjective? I'd class myself as rich if I could make 2k a month trading. No boss, no daily commute etc... Could I make between 1k and 2k a month off a 5-10k account? I hope so, is 20% returns a month achievable? You tell me.

im sure you could make a modest living, but who wants that?

 

[BSD]

so like a handfull of people in the last century, out of possibly millions? yes your right its so doable.

Our very own TWI here who is at a hedge fund now and started out at a prop firm wrote this about the returns his colleagues were generating:

Many people think if you make 20-30% a year that you are doing brilliantly well. Many here will make 50-100% per month. It is not a methodology you could apply to large amounts of capital such as fund trading but for individuals accounts it cannot be bettered.

Or remember this incredible guy here who is still doing very well from trading his own account:

55000 % in ONE month !

Cher Monsieur Rothschild this is all very current and fresh out of the fridge mon ami ;-)

 

[N Rothschild]

Cher Monsieur Rothschild this is all very current and fresh out of the fridge mon ami ;-)

not saying its not possible to be a successful trader, just look at yours truely

but to start from nothing, you are highly unlikely to succeed and if you did it would almost certainly be down to luck lol

 

[BSD]

but to start from nothing, you are highly unlikely to succeed and if you did it would almost certainly be down to luck lol

There I do agree, and as far as I'm concerned that's really the only justification for these prop firms, funding people who don't have say 50K or what squirrelled away somewhere.

Right, now I really need to get out and see what's happening outdoors, last night of the worldcup and all that, should be fun again just like the whole summer has been one big fairy tale again like 2006 when we hosted that.

 

[oildaytrader]

shut up moron i dont need to compound, im already filthy rich.

If you don't know compounding , or don't need to use it , must be a spastic trader on demo

 

[cr6196]

yeh i think this would only hold if you followed a random system, if you look at ppl like dennis he took a lot of risk at the start and was at the right place and the right time i.e lucky. Market Wizards is surviorship bias in the extreme, trendfollowing worked well in the 70s...thats all it reli tell us. and although CAPM is bull****, risk and returns are loosely related.

the professional advantage is pretty obscene in every area. i know this as i reguarly have to spend hours on the internet looking for a bit of info that bberg could put out in a second...the internet gives you only the most old and useless information, unless you pay. the only way to beat this is to go to places where pros aren't (never nice), building up some analysis skillz (too much work for most people) or try finding out your own obcure methods like Ken Griffin and convertible bonds (yeah right! lol)...this is easier said than done though and new strategies often are illquid, risky and still dependent on a massive amount of luck to ensure that you don't get screwed by either the "market" or somone else. Having an SB account gives you nothing to work with, and most statiscally proven strats need more.

i think trading and esp some of the random and unprovable TA strats which are inferred in the OP's posts lend themselves to human weaknesses in a big way, so although some may do it, if you look at how they did it its usually ridiculous and random. there will always be a place for the small fish somewhere though.

btw trading isn't scalable, liquidity is pretty relative to what your trading, some small caps dont trade for days. again it assumes spreadbetting and forex. dangerous stuff.

 

[cr6196]

if you give a **** about what other people think ur in the wrong game i would say

 

[arabianights]

Reasons to be cheerful, parts 1,2 and 3;

Reason one; how many businesses (and that's what it is) can you start from such a low capital base? I've lost count of the individuals I've known/met that have (bright eyed and bushy tailed) set up businesses that have taken 4-5 years of trading to just break even but mostly failed. And who wins, a few employees (temporarily) and the tax and vat man, your principal job during the failure has been unpaid tax collector for the revenue...mug...

Look at the past 7 years of ridiculous unsustainable hubris and we can all pin point businesses that are on respirator or will die. Can *we* ride out the next ten years and more importantly profit from it, coming out the other side winning? Too fookin right...

90% of new businesses fail, don't buy into the meeja 5hite re. self employment, it's incredibly hard to make a niche work, equally hard raising the risk capital; unless you're Nat Rothschild who has just raised 750ml to *buy up* mining assets...and that's another thing, wanna borrow 50K to set up another 5hitty cafe on your high st? Banks'll lend it to you if you hock the homestead. Want 500K line of credit to play markets? You may be surprised at how seriously the great and good of the city will give your plan an audience and the introductions 'they' may help you with, particularly if you reckon/can prove only 10% if it will be risked. Tell me another legal business were the upside is limitless? Assuming capitalism doesn't eat itself...

Reason two; you can really be in this game for less than 5K with no overheads, no obligations, no pressure, other than the self inflicted pressure to perform. Stop moaning re. the price of the spreads, the clunky platforms, the spikes, the whipsaws...FFS spreads on cable were 20 pips 10 years ago, and you didn't have broadband and free state of the art platforms and charting packages, and suites of forums to increase your knowledge exponentially. It is unfookin believable what we get for free and the oportunity this represents. And with that 5K you can make consistently a grand/two grand a month after a year or two of *learning*. That's not fireworks, but again I've known multi million T/O businesses never make a dime before having the plug pulled and as they go the collateral damage can be significant..

Reason three; the freedom, the creativity, the intelligence spike, the being there at the event horizon of business on a daily basis, the lack of risk (if managed), the contest, the intellectual curiousity...

I admire the sentiment but this post is mostly bulli****.

 

[Black Swan]

not saying its not possible to be a successful trader, just look at yours truely

but to start from nothing, you are highly unlikely to succeed and if you did it would almost certainly be down to luck lol

Truly amazing how certain folk always see what they want in posts and fail to *read*. Nowhere in the original statement did it mention "becoming rich" from a 5K account. Similarly 90% of new start ups fail to make a decent profit, perhaps 90% of folk who 'have a go' at trading don't either. However, I'll bet they (have a go traders) lose a lot less than average Joe who sets up the average retail business who then loses £40K with a new start failure...but heh, well done you and ODT...again...

 

[Black Swan]

esp some of the random and unprovable TA strats which are inferred in the OP's posts lend themselves to human weaknesses in a big way, QUOTE]

'kin 'ell...where?

 

[Black Swan]

he speaks the truth.

almost seems you wrote the thread to give your self faith you can do it

Nope it was in response to the other thread with a similar title, I just changed the words, ever so slightly...

 

[JRP2891]

Sorry BS, but your post just doesn't reflect the day to day realities of trading.

 

[cr6196]

esp some of the random and unprovable TA strats which are inferred in the OP's posts lend themselves to human weaknesses in a big way, QUOTE]

'kin 'ell...where?

just to clarify, i wasn't ripping into you or anything and it doesn't say that you did say it. i said "inferred", by which the general idea of the orginal post seemed to imply a certain kind of trading style. this was admitedly an abstracted point.

what i meant was that if you trade just using ig (for example) your not using any information that is typically found in the most well known and proven strategies and that kind of setup lends itself to reckless behaviour. i also was trying to say why would you choose a high-risk, potentially random strategy against something that has consistently worked before and has a logical basis...the reason is usually hope or lack of money to get access to good information. so even though its possible to make money this way, the trading process is based on something random and undefinable and thats pretty risky (like believing that ****** octopus predicted the world cup, if you get what i mean). but it was an abstract point and i may be overstating the informational differences, but i have found it to be pretty obstructive.

 

[Sang Froid]

SHEEESH.

A lot of animosity here tonight, I can almost smell the testosterone through my screen.

To be honest, I don't think many here care who has the larger bank balance, who trades the bigger lots, or whose ***** is bigger. I like to read posts from other people who are in this game so I can say.... I need to adopt this approach, or this guy is a numpty don't do what he's doing.

Anyway, I've somewhat lost the plot of what the hell this thread is about anymore. From what I can gather the last couple of pages I think a few people are saying that a 5k account is not worth having, or along those lines.

Well, if this is correct: a 5k account risking just 3% per trade. £5 per pip take profit at 30pips will net me £150. If I do that just twice a week I'll be earning exactly what I'm earning in my job now sweating my t*ts off 39 hours a week. If I only average 20% per month I'm still taking home a grand. I'm not saying this is ideal, and in reality I'd like an account double that size, but again this is not in the realms of the unbelievable. Some guys want to make a million. I just want to be able to tell my boss to shove his job right up his a**

Can I do that time and time again? Who knows. Is that a realistic target? I think so. If i pick up a golf club now and try and hit a ball 300 yards could I do it? Could I bo****ks. I wouldn't even hit the effing thing. If I practice everyday for the next three years, solidly, learn and study, could I hit that ball 300 yards, who knows, but chances of doing it would improve one hell of a lot.

 

[MrGecko]

...
what i meant was that if you trade just using ig (for example) your not using any information that is typically found in the most well known and proven strategies and that kind of setup lends itself to reckless behaviour.

IG know this.

.
i also was trying to say why would you choose a high-risk, potentially random strategy against something that has consistently worked before and has a logical basis.

I wouldn't, I'd buy IG.

 

[MrGecko]

SHEEESH.

A lot of animosity here tonight, I can almost smell the testosterone through my screen.

To be honest, I don't think many here care who has the larger bank balance, who trades the bigger lots, or whose ***** is bigger. I like to read posts from other people who are in this game so I can say.... I need to adopt this approach, or this guy is a numpty don't do what he's doing.

Anyway, I've somewhat lost the plot of what the hell this thread is about anymore. From what I can gather the last couple of pages I think a few people are saying that a 5k account is not worth having, or along those lines.

Well, if this is correct: a 5k account risking just 3% per trade. £5 per pip take profit at 30pips will net me £150. If I do that just twice a week I'll be earning exactly what I'm earning in my job now sweating my t*ts off 39 hours a week. If I only average 20% per month I'm still taking home a grand.

Can I do that time and time again? Who knows. Is that a realistic target? I think so. If i pick up a golf club now and try and hit a ball 300 yards could I do it? Could I bo****ks. I wouldn't even hit the effing thing. If I practice everyday for the next three years, solidly, learn and study, could I hit that ball 300 yards, who knows, but chances of doing it would improve one hell of a lot.

I echo many of the sentiments in this post. Regarding the $5k account thing, I will try to draw a simple but effective analogy:

Before the tri-nations, or before the autumn internationals, the New Zealand rugby management run a series of "practice" games... colloquially known as the "probables vs. possibles".

Which team do you think $5k is going to get you in?

 

[Black Swan]

just to clarify, i wasn't ripping into you or anything and it doesn't say that you did say it. i said "inferred", by which the general idea of the orginal post seemed to imply a certain kind of trading style. this was admitedly an abstracted point.

what i meant was that if you trade just using ig (for example) your not using any information that is typically found in the most well known and proven strategies and that kind of setup lends itself to reckless behaviour. i also was trying to say why would you choose a high-risk, potentially random strategy against something that has consistently worked before and has a logical basis...the reason is usually hope or lack of money to get access to good information. so even though its possible to make money this way, the trading process is based on something random and undefinable and thats pretty risky (like believing that ****** octopus predicted the world cup, if you get what i mean). but it was an abstract point.

No it wasn't an abstract point it was wrong...and sly...tbh I'm a bit pi55ed off with folk trying to put words in other's mouths on this suite of forums, just try reading the original post from an objective viewpoint without *thinking * that I'm speaking in tongues..

Amazing how 3 simple paras has been so mistranslated..How you (or others) can even begin to suggest that the possibility of making 40-80 quid a trading day from a 5K account would be "pretty risky" is beyond me..Anyhow I'm done with this thread...

 

[Black Swan]

SHEEESH.

A lot of animosity here tonight, I can almost smell the testosterone through my screen.

To be honest, I don't think many here care who has the larger bank balance, who trades the bigger lots, or whose ***** is bigger. I like to read posts from other people who are in this game so I can say.... I need to adopt this approach, or this guy is a numpty don't do what he's doing.

Anyway, I've somewhat lost the plot of what the hell this thread is about anymore. From what I can gather the last couple of pages I think a few people are saying that a 5k account is not worth having, or along those lines.

Well, if this is correct: a 5k account risking just 3% per trade. £5 per pip take profit at 30pips will net me £150. If I do that just twice a week I'll be earning exactly what I'm earning in my job now sweating my t*ts off 39 hours a week. If I only average 20% per month I'm still taking home a grand. I'm not saying this is ideal, and in reality I'd like an account double that size, but again this is not in the realms of the unbelievable. Some guys want to make a million. I just want to be able to tell my boss to shove his job right up his a**

Can I do that time and time again? Who knows. Is that a realistic target? I think so. If i pick up a golf club now and try and hit a ball 300 yards could I do it? Could I bo****ks. I wouldn't even hit the effing thing. If I practice everyday for the next three years, solidly, learn and study, could I hit that ball 300 yards, who knows, but chances of doing it would improve one hell of a lot.

nailed... as stated you only have to roughly net 80 quid a trading day, from an 5K account, to make average wage in the UK, and (perhaps) it'll be tax free.