Best Thread How To Make Money Trading The Markets.

[D70]

Because this strategy is largely based on discretion and price action. Which you can't backtest.

Its not a case of if... a+b=c then trade. Hence he suggests trading this live.

I think you've nailed it.
This thread makes it out to be a+b=c (to a certain extent as the dream of easy money is being sold) but as you've highlighted. It is largely based on discretion which then begs the logic : that it cant be taught!

Or have I got what you're saying wrong?

 

[D70]

Mr Charts, your in the UK right? How and who do you use to trade US shares. What are the spreads like. I am developing a system to trade the US markets, off the 1hr timeframe. But im finding the spread too large.

He uses Interactive Brokers.
I recognise the charts.

Spreads can be as small as 1cent (plus comms).

 

[Mr. Charts]

Because this strategy is largely based on discretion and price action. Which you can't backtest.

Its not a case of if... a+b=c then trade. Hence he suggests trading this live.

Hi ffsear,
The particular method in this thread can be traded using SBs and CFDs and I successfully used CFDs myself years ago when I started and I know people who do now.

This particular method is mostly mechanical but there is always an element of judgement (discretion) involved - like many things in life. For example, I am reluctant to go long in a falling market unless the trend is very strong. It's difficult to put it into percentage terms but it's about 20% judgement / 80% rules when you start and as you gain experience the judgement becomes almost automatic and the percentage falls to about 10% or so (and the mechanical side rises to about 90%) as you discover more and more with experience. Analogies with trading are rarely good, but the nearest thing I can think of is driving. You know the rules and what to do but there is always an element of experience and judgement involved and you get better and better - and safer - with time and work and application - experience.
I use interactivebrokers.
Hope that helps.
To the objective and silent (overwhelming) majority, try this method paper trading for yourself as I suggested and see for yourself. Remember to concentrate only on the clearly and cleanly trending stocks, If you try and use it on choppily moving stocks you won't succeed.
Richard

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

Hi WallStreetWarrior,

It's a good idea but I remember a post by you saying that backtesting and forwardtesting was pointless if you could put together logical reasoning about why a particular strategy should "work".

Can you explain to the thread why this strategy should "work" ?

Thanks,.

Hi, yes you are correct, I have said that before, and because of the way I read the flow, I can see how this method can/will work ( to a very high success rate, should you know your expectation), but also I know where the pitfalls lie with this.

Like I say, I am just playing devils advocate, this is a simple to follow strategy that makes the most of clear momentum moves before they run out of steam. We are talking basic level here, long before we develop the ability to really understand orderflow.

The problem is that because no one will produce a live journal on this, there is no way to really tell if the trades are "correct" in the sense of this method. Therefore, no feedback can be given. Will they guys whom have stated that this does not work be willing to post the trades they took? Just 10 examples will do, and then they can get some feedback.

What I guess we will see are a lot of stocks that are very thin, have no size, erratic spreads, over $60 and below $20, not clearly trending, no real momentum etc.

So do you guys want some unbiased feedback?

If so, pop your entries and exits up.

Remember this is basic level first, then you evolve from this, but you have to start somewhere.

 

[DionysusToast]

Here's an idea for everyone commenting on this thread, with regards to whether or not it is possible to trade like this;

Why dont you follow the rules at the start of this thread, and then try to actually do this in a live, realtime environment for 100 trades, and post EACH and EVERY TRADE, here for everyone to see. Also explain the reason for each trade and how you spotted the prospect in the first place.

100 trades in the public domain will be enough to see if you are really using the method as it is explained (not just your interpretation of it). Then if the results really are as bad as some make out, you may have some fuel for a debate.

So, how many are willing to be put under scrutiny for 100 trades? It is not hard to do, but I reckon there will not be many that will stand the test of time (100 trades), but this will not surprise anyone experienced as the majority want a sure-fire, quick fix, way to make their millions.

So there is the gauntlet, for those saying it cannot be done, is there any of you that want to report the next 100 trades?

5 trades a day will only be a months trading, so not much to ask in the grand scheme of things.

Just playing devils advocate

Naaaa -people will try it twice and give up.

They think trading is a problem looking for a solution. They think if it fails 2 out of 3 times for them, it's a wash.

If they did what you suggest, they might discover that they improve over time.

Cannon fodder.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Naaaa -people will try it twice and give up.

They think trading is a problem looking for a solution. They think if it fails 2 out of 3 times for them, it's a wash.

If they did what you suggest, they might discover that they improve over time.

Cannon fodder.

Albert (Socrates to recent members) used to say most people on t2w weren't prepared to put in the time and effort and screen time to learn to trade properly so they were cannon fodder for other traders in the market......and he was right about that.
Richard

 

[D70]

MrCharts.

When you trade on interactive brokers. It leaves a blue dash and red dash when you buy and sell. Why dont your charts echo this?

Thanks,

 

[the hare]

Albert (Socrates to recent members) used to say most people on t2w weren't prepared to put in the time and effort and screen time to learn to trade properly so they were cannon fodder for other traders in the market......and he was right about that.
Richard

He was right about most things

 

[Mr. Charts]

He was right about most things

"most" - agreed
And he boosted the number of hits on t2w.......one way or another

 

[Mr. Charts]

Naaaa -people will try it twice and give up.

They think trading is a problem looking for a solution. They think if it fails 2 out of 3 times for them, it's a wash.

If they did what you suggest, they might discover that they improve over time.

Cannon fodder.

And as Tony (TheBramble for newbies) said in post #1777 about this thread:

"In all seriousness, Richard is probably the arch proponent of a belief that the majority will simply shy away from anything vaguely resembling effort or hard work. This is good news for those of us that do not and indeed who embrace the opportunity to do the hard yards.

For those blessed few, you will relish the opportunity to: Start at the beginning; avidly work your way through it all and then; arrive at the end, which is where you’ll begin. I strongly recommend you take the opportunity offered."

 

[Mayberry RFD]

And as Tony (TheBramble for newbies) said in post #1777 about this thread:

"In all seriousness, Richard is probably the arch proponent of a belief that the majority will simply shy away from anything vaguely resembling effort or hard work. This is good news for those of us that do not and indeed who embrace the opportunity to do the hard yards.

For those blessed few, you will relish the opportunity to: Start at the beginning; avidly work your way through it all and then; arrive at the end, which is where you’ll begin. I strongly recommend you take the opportunity offered."

Hard work is always a good. Trading smart is even better. You mention nothing about the markets true mechanics. What I mean is that electronic day trading has been evolving since it's creation. The last few years market makers have really turned the tables on retail traders. With "High Frequency Trading" and the addition of all the other ECN's. Market makers are able to legally front run bids & offers leaving retail traders with less profit. This also effects momentum trading which is what you do. Market makers are able to manipulate quotes that cause false breakouts at lightspeed. This was not happening 2 years ago.

Also what about Amit1986 who was a very good trader and put in the hard work but gave up because after a while he could not find consistency in the markets.

 

[mik1973]

MrCharts.

When you trade on interactive brokers. It leaves a blue dash and red dash when you buy and sell. Why dont your charts echo this?

Thanks,

Don't hold your breath expecting a reply to this...

 

[mik1973]

Trading 3 minute bars on SB platforms- good luck

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

So do you guys want some unbiased feedback?

If so, pop your entries and exits up.

Still no charts from anyone

Guess no one wants to play

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

Trading 3 minute bars on SB platforms- good luck

With all due respect, I haven't seen anywhere that advocates using a SB company for this.

CFD's at a push, but if you are serious it must be done direct.

It should be serious, as this is not a playground.

 

[mik1973]

With all due respect, I haven't seen anywhere that advocates using a SB company for this.




CFD's at a push, but if you are serious it must be done direct.

It should be serious, as this is not a playground.

And with the GREATEST of respect maybe YOU should read this posted by Richard:

Hi ffsear,
The particular method in this thread can be traded using SBs and CFDs and I successfully used CFDs myself years ago when I started and I know people who do now.

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

The last few years market makers have really turned the tables on retail traders. With "High Frequency Trading" and the addition of all the other ECN's. Market makers are able to legally front run bids & offers leaving retail traders with less profit. This also effects momentum trading which is what you do. Market makers are able to manipulate quotes that cause false breakouts at lightspeed. This was not happening 2 years ago.

This depends on the context of the situation. If there is a barrage of buyers wanting to come in to the market on a (genuine upside) momentum play, then no one will be playing games there as they will simply get rolled. But this is taking orderflow to another level, way beyond this thread. But this is the reason why trading this way can achieve very attractive results. You must know that the barrage will be coming along with you! (This is what take time to learn, sorry, there are NO shortcuts)

But once again, this is beyond the scope of this thread. This is about keeping it pure and simple, and finding out the true results from this. From then, we will begin to move forward.

So far no one can even be bothered to put up a few examples. That says a lot!

It only takes a few seconds to do a screen hunt.

 

[mik1973]

This depends on the context of the situation. If there is a barrage of buyers wanting to come in to the market on a (genuine upside) momentum play, then no one will be playing games there as they will simply get rolled. But this is taking orderflow to another level, way beyond this thread. But this is the reason why trading this way can achieve very attractive results. You must know that the barrage will be coming along with you! (This is what take time to learn, sorry, there are NO shortcuts)

But once again, this is beyond the scope of this thread. This is about keeping it pure and simple, and finding out the true results from this. From then, we will begin to move forward.

So far no one can even be bothered to put up a few examples. That says a lot!

It only takes a few seconds to do a screen hunt.

So why don't you post some charts and let us know how you get on

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

And with the GREATEST of respect maybe YOU should read this posted by Richard:

Hi ffsear,
The particular method in this thread can be traded using SBs and CFDs and I successfully used CFDs myself years ago when I started and I know people who do now.

My error, I did not see that, I was reading the beginning of the thread. My mistake, small loss taken lol.

Well unless the SBs are offering 1 or 2 pt spreads, then this would be near on impossible. So really I dont think Richard should have mentioned SB's unless he knows any that offer tiny spreads?

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

So why don't you post some charts and let us know how you get on

I dont need to

You guys are funny. You dont want feedback/help/bit of guidance. Fine, carry on.

BTW its better to prove something doesnt work, than proving it does. But so far no one has proved it does not.

This is not the way I trade so im totally unbiased either way.

Good weekend all!