How to make money from spread betting

[0007]

Stuart Wheeler knows a thing or two about this subject. Here's a couple of quotes from an article he's just written in the Spectator magazine:

"me: Darling, I thought you might like to know that I have made one and a quarter million pounds on a bet.
wife (in uninterested voice): Well done, darling.
wife (in animated voice): Now, about the flowers…."

"The fact is that spread betting is a boon to the Chancellor."

"Well, there are two ways [of making money]. You can own a chunk of a successful spread-betting firm or you can be a spread-better and get things right. Miraculously, I have managed to do both."

Encouragement for us all eh? Read the article here How to make money from spread betting » The Spectator

 

[Trader333]

"Well, there are two ways [of making money]. You can own a chunk of a successful spread-betting firm or you can be a spread-better and get things right. Miraculously, I have managed to do both."

Does that mean bets were being placed with their own company in which case they couldn't really go too far wrong.

 

[timsk]

Does that mean you were placing bets with your own company in which case you couldn't really go too far wrong.

No Paul, according to the article, he traded via a competitor, covering his short Dow trade just after 9/11. Not too sure how I'd feel about making millions out of an event like 9/11.
Tim.

 

[the hare]

Not too sure how I'd feel about making millions out of an event like 9/11.
Tim.

I remember having a few moral issues at the time of the London bombings.

It probably sounds cold and heartless but I suspect you'd feel worse if you lost a couple of million due to 911.

 

[timsk]

It probably sounds cold and heartless but I suspect you'd feel worse if you lost a couple of million due to 911.

Yes, fair comment the hare, I suspect you're right.

Tim.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

No Paul, according to the article, he traded via a competitor, covering his short Dow trade just after 9/11. Not too sure how I'd feel about making millions out of an event like 9/11.
Tim.

Hiya Timsk,

Always an interesting one for which has come my way on occasions whenever I engage in conversations with people and this event comes into play.

The bottom line is you did not cause the event nor did you know about it. Therefore you cannot have won/earnt the money immorally in this incidence.

If you sell Ice creams and one day it is extremely hot where loads of people want to buy from you but yet a few people die from heat stroke.....Is it your fault for selling ice creams????

That analogy is as pathetic as someone thinking that traders should give their 'immoral earnings' away to charity.

We are simply betting on an outcome of a price governed by the group of peoples mentality of what it should be , not a specific event happening in the real world, after all, how real is the market anyway.

Lee

 

[timsk]

Hi Lee,
I hear what you're saying and, broadly speaking, I agree with you. However, imagine this scenario . . . You're Mr Wheeler, you've covered your Dow short and withdrawn your winnings. The following week, you're floating around the Med' on you're brand new £1m gin palace hosting a party for your friends, when one of them comes up to you and says 'Havin' a great time Charlie ol' boy, luuuuuv the boat - what did you have to do to get it?' And Charlie replies, "You know that nasty business in NYC last week, well, thanks to those terrorists, I'm (even more) minted and you're having a wonderful time".

You gotta admit, whilst it may not be immoral, it's pretty tacky to say the least. I think most people who spend money on themselves that's been acquired as a result of something like 9/11 aren't going to feel that great about it - that's my only point really.
Tim.

 

[malaguti]

Hi Lee,
I hear what you're saying and, broadly speaking, I agree with you. However, imagine this scenario . . . You're Mr Wheeler, you've covered your Dow short and withdrawn your winnings. The following week, you're floating around the Med' on you're brand new £1m gin palace hosting a party for your friends, when one of them comes up to you and says 'Havin' a great time Charlie ol' boy, luuuuuv the boat - what did you have to do to get it?' And Charlie replies, "You know that nasty business in NYC last week, well, thanks to those terrorists, I'm (even more) minted and you're having a wonderful time".

You gotta admit, whilst it may not be immoral, it's pretty tacky to say the least. I think most people who spend money on themselves that's been acquired as a result of something like 9/11 aren't going to feel that great about it - that's my only point really.
Tim.

Mr Wheeler might then argue that given the Dow had already been tanking the few months earlier that 9/11 had nothing to do with his winnings.

 

[Vasco da Banana]

Was it Liberace who said he cried all the way to the bank?

 

[Mr. Charts]

Was it Liberace who said he cried all the way to the bank?

It was Fred Goodwin.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Hi Lee,
I hear what you're saying and, broadly speaking, I agree with you. However, imagine this scenario . . . You're Mr Wheeler, you've covered your Dow short and withdrawn your winnings. The following week, you're floating around the Med' on you're brand new £1m gin palace hosting a party for your friends, when one of them comes up to you and says 'Havin' a great time Charlie ol' boy, luuuuuv the boat - what did you have to do to get it?' And Charlie replies, "You know that nasty business in NYC last week, well, thanks to those terrorists, I'm (even more) minted and you're having a wonderful time".

You gotta admit, whilst it may not be immoral, it's pretty tacky to say the least. I think most people who spend money on themselves that's been acquired as a result of something like 9/11 aren't going to feel that great about it - that's my only point really.
Tim.

Morning Timsk,

I can see by the way you write that I agree with you. It seems you have a problem with this.

Personally I don't. For one, anyone questioning me without understanding doesn't get told anything other than the basics, ie, I trade, I earn money - Thats it. To a seasoned trader then they could say I got lucky on a single event, a single event to which was:

Out of my (control) - The power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events.
No prior (knowledge) - Information and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject
Not (cause)d by me- A person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.

You made money from doing your job. So, having said that, does a manufacturer that sell tents to the red cross feel bad when a bad event happens,

Or, a pharmaceutical company that develops an anti dote for a disease that has just come out, even though many will die as a direct result of side effects. An example of this was swine flu in 1970's America, more people died from the anti dote than the disease itself. But theres many many more examples.
Or
Even more immoral perhaps, weapons manufacturers. If so, we are all bad when we pay our taxes then fight wars we don't feel we should fight and its with our money. Do we feel bad? should we feel bad?, or do we just get on with our lives.

Simple, that's it. So I would ask, especially some one that's on this forum but even more so STAFF of this forum. What do you believe is your solution to this problem, and it really is a problem from a psychological aspect.

Come on Tim, give it to me.

 

[donaldduke]

Hi Lee,
I hear what you're saying and, broadly speaking, I agree with you. However, imagine this scenario . . . You're Mr Wheeler, you've covered your Dow short and withdrawn your winnings. The following week, you're floating around the Med' on you're brand new £1m gin palace hosting a party for your friends, when one of them comes up to you and says 'Havin' a great time Charlie ol' boy, luuuuuv the boat - what did you have to do to get it?' And Charlie replies, "You know that nasty business in NYC last week, well, thanks to those terrorists, I'm (even more) minted and you're having a wonderful time".

You gotta admit, whilst it may not be immoral, it's pretty tacky to say the least. I think most people who spend money on themselves that's been acquired as a result of something like 9/11 aren't going to feel that great about it - that's my only point really.
Tim.

Actually he can proudly say, "while others were selling after the 9/11 event, i was there doing my patriotic duty and buying the market."
Makes no difference he was buying to cover his short or initiating a new long position after the event.

 

[timsk]

So I would ask, especially some one that's on this forum but even more so STAFF of this forum. What do you believe is your solution to this problem, and it really is a problem from a psychological aspect.

Come on Tim, give it to me.

Hi Lee,
I've expressed a personal view that has nothing at all to do with me being on T2W staff, so I don't understand your point I'm afraid? Be that as it may, what is clear is that we have different views on this issue and that's absolutely fine - it's not a problem at all. So, without a problem, no solution is required. You think and act in a way that you're comfortable with and I'll do likewise. Simple, that's it!

Tim.

 

[the hare]

Hi Lee,
I've expressed a personal view that has nothing at all to do with me being on T2W staff, so I don't understand your point I'm afraid? Be that as it may, what is clear is that we have different views on this issue and that's absolutely fine - it's not a problem at all. So, without a problem, no solution is required. You think and act in a way that you're comfortable with and I'll do likewise. Simple, that's it!

Tim.

I'm kind of with you on this one, despite all of the rationalization, and despite the fact that the cause of those deaths could be firmly laid at someone else's door, I did feel some uncomfort at profiting from the London bombings, and I certainly wasnt the only trader who felt that way.

I don't have a problem with a member of t2w staff showing some compassion and humanity, although it does surprise me.

I know I have a reputation as a critic of t2w, but these types of businesses operate in what can only be described as a very grey area, for me personally its a line I wouldn't want to cross.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Hi Lee,
I've expressed a personal view that has nothing at all to do with me being on T2W staff, so I don't understand your point I'm afraid? Be that as it may, what is clear is that we have different views on this issue and that's absolutely fine - it's not a problem at all. So, without a problem, no solution is required. You think and act in a way that you're comfortable with and I'll do likewise. Simple, that's it!

Tim.

Wow, I wasn't expecting that kind of response. You having a bad day ?????

 

[Pat494]

What about the conspiracy theorists who claim the terrorist movements are directly funded by speculators who expect 24hr prior warnings and are right in the driving seat when it happens ?

 

[the hare]

Wow, I wasn't expecting that kind of response. You having a bad day ?????

Surely not, every day working at the shining beacon must be pure bliss

I would be interested in hearing why you think that a member of staff would not have particular problems with this issue. Clearly part of t2w's aim is to get people to hand over their hard earned money to brokers, and to encourage punters to trade in such a way that its to their paymasters financial benefit. Anything that discourages punters from doings that isn't really good for business, but do you think staff tow the party line out of loyalty to their employer, or for their own financial benefits, or because their personal moral framework is such that they can't empathize with their victims, or perhaps they don't understand what the score is ?


I guess that like most organizations t2w's staff are going to have a range of views and opinions ranging from a small minority people who are uneasy about the whole thing, most will be completely apathetic and won't have given the issue any serious thought, and one or two will be megalomaniac psychopaths who could give a dam who gets hurt or how much damage they cause as long as they are making a buck.

I was a bit shocked by Tim's response, I thought he'd gone over to the dark side years ago

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Surely not, every day working at the shining beacon must be pure bliss

I would be interested in hearing why you think that a member of staff would not have particular problems with this issue. Clearly part of t2w's aim is to get people to hand over their hard earned money to brokers, and to encourage punters to trade in such a way that its to their paymasters financial benefit. Anything that discourages punters from doings that isn't really good for business, but do you think staff tow the party line out of loyalty to their employer, or for their own financial benefits, or because their personal moral framework is such that they can't empathize with their victims, or perhaps they don't understand what the score is ?


I guess that like most organizations t2w's staff are going to have a range of views and opinions ranging from a small minority people who are uneasy about the whole thing, most will be completely apathetic and won't have given the issue any serious thought, and one or two will be megalomaniac psychopaths who could give a dam who gets hurt or how much damage they cause as long as they are making a buck.

I was a bit shocked by Tim's response, I thought he'd gone over to the dark side years ago

Hi bud,

No I think my post could've been worded a little different. I hope he didn't take offence by it as I hold Timsk in high regard. He does a very difficult job here.

I was attacking him on the issue of having a conscious about making money from a disaster. I made it clear in my last post that this should have no bearings on a trader or business person whatsoever, good or bad. As a trader we do not make the outcome, we simply bet on a predicted outcome and take our chance, if a black swan event occurs for which we have profited from then we should not feel bad in the slightest from it. We should also refrain from showing elation.

After all, when someone goes for a job interview and gets the job, comes home and gets congratulated by all the family and friends, they don't stop for a minute and hold silence over the many that didn't, they go home with bad news (again) and can't afford to put food on their family .
Some even give up in more ways than one over such events.
A less conscious situation but nonetheless a situation that goes unnoticed by most and is very serious and very real to the one/s that haven't got the job.

For every winner there has to be several losers. Like it or not, that's capitalism for you.

PS: @ Timsk, sorry if I hit a nerve, was never meant that way - just a bit of fun with the bring it on thing.

Lee

 

[Mr. Charts]

FWIW I didn't trade the aftermath of 9/11 although many in my trading group did and profited handsomely as a result.
I simply wasn't comfortable profiting from the death and suffering of so many by shorting the market. The subject can be discussed sensibly and logically and I can see why people were happy to make money but it's a matter of personal choice and life isn't all about only doing the logical thing.
My decision felt right to me and still does all these years later.

 

[timsk]

I was a bit shocked by Tim's response, I thought he'd gone over to the dark side years ago

Hi the hare,
Like all things trading related, it very much depends upon how you're defining 'dark side'. If one defines it as wanting to help fellow members and to do everything possible that's in their best interests, then yes, I'm firmly in that camp. Then again, that applies to all T2W staff and moderators.
:cheesy:
Tim.