GameOver22
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Good post there Frugi, i totally agree.
One thing i always tell people is, if you think its gambling, then stay away, trading shares is not for you.
Thanks Frugi
One thing i always tell people is, if you think its gambling, then stay away, trading shares is not for you.
Thanks Frugi
GameOver22
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Good for you RudeBoy
I do suggest you learn how to read charts better, the chart already know about news, and the chart already knows whats going to happen, because its in control by "smart money". Thats how ive never lost a penny.
Please excuse me though, as i dont know much about Forex, i would not trade it, i like stocks.
Matt
I do suggest you learn how to read charts better, the chart already know about news, and the chart already knows whats going to happen, because its in control by "smart money". Thats how ive never lost a penny.
Please excuse me though, as i dont know much about Forex, i would not trade it, i like stocks.
Matt
fxmarkets
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GameOver22 said:
Well try not to get too wrapped with satisfied feelings along those lines maybe..... I mean having locked opinions can be costly in the markets at times....... we might want to defend them in order to satify ourselves that we are correct etc. and this is how we are nurtured,conditioned and programmed to be in society.... theres a good boy thats right have a twinky bar....... or thats wrong, get to your room dont be or you are (instead of saying behaving silly) Silly and Wrong, bad,bad bad,,,,,,, 😛 and so with minds formed as adults we venture to the markets.......
time later and money spent... we may if lucky, or fortunate by association of a wise one reach for a rewire manual.....
nine
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GameOver,
A number of people have tried to convince you that trading and gambling are very close relatives. I'll have a go too 🙂
You choose the definition of gambling as:
"BETTING ON AN UNCERTAIN OUTCOME"
I'll stick with your definition and add an extension for the professional gambler (which I believe a good trader to be).
A professional gambler repeatedly "bets on an uncertain outcome" but uses money management, a positive statistical edge, and discipline to win money over a period of time.
I trade the HSI and place between 5 and 10 trades each day. Each trade has an uncertain outcome. Each day also has an uncertain outcome because the sequence is too small for the edge and statistics to play out with "near" certainty. If I obey my gambling rules then the odds mean that over a week with 25 to 50 trades I will almost always make money.
So, on a trade by trade basis I gamble (professionally, and I hope skillfully). But my weekly sequence is nearly certain.
Thats what traders do. Investors may take the "this isnt gambling view" and depending on how important this is to their self-belief they may do damage to their accounts to maintain it. You seem to be saying that each purchase WILL result in a postive outcome - but the only way you can achieve that is to hold each one for a profit (or die with it in your portfolio). THIS IS NOT TRADING - its investing and protecting ones self-view.
So a trader takes a risk with each trade placed.
His edge and his money management create an income stream.
The difference between a TRADER (not an investor) and a non-professsional GAMBLER lies in the experience and attitudes. A gambler gets a thrill etc etc ... a professional is calm and disciplined. Most traders have an element of gambler in them but work on themselves to change it to the extent that it damages their ability to generate an income stream.
OK. Thats my attempt.
Edit: LOL ... composed while Frugi replied and the last 6 posts occurred.
A number of people have tried to convince you that trading and gambling are very close relatives. I'll have a go too 🙂
You choose the definition of gambling as:
"BETTING ON AN UNCERTAIN OUTCOME"
I'll stick with your definition and add an extension for the professional gambler (which I believe a good trader to be).
A professional gambler repeatedly "bets on an uncertain outcome" but uses money management, a positive statistical edge, and discipline to win money over a period of time.
I trade the HSI and place between 5 and 10 trades each day. Each trade has an uncertain outcome. Each day also has an uncertain outcome because the sequence is too small for the edge and statistics to play out with "near" certainty. If I obey my gambling rules then the odds mean that over a week with 25 to 50 trades I will almost always make money.
So, on a trade by trade basis I gamble (professionally, and I hope skillfully). But my weekly sequence is nearly certain.
Thats what traders do. Investors may take the "this isnt gambling view" and depending on how important this is to their self-belief they may do damage to their accounts to maintain it. You seem to be saying that each purchase WILL result in a postive outcome - but the only way you can achieve that is to hold each one for a profit (or die with it in your portfolio). THIS IS NOT TRADING - its investing and protecting ones self-view.
So a trader takes a risk with each trade placed.
His edge and his money management create an income stream.
The difference between a TRADER (not an investor) and a non-professsional GAMBLER lies in the experience and attitudes. A gambler gets a thrill etc etc ... a professional is calm and disciplined. Most traders have an element of gambler in them but work on themselves to change it to the extent that it damages their ability to generate an income stream.
OK. Thats my attempt.
Edit: LOL ... composed while Frugi replied and the last 6 posts occurred.
Last edited:
fxmarkets
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Hello gameover , now these companies that you own..... start lisitng the risks of any company.. before you get to the creative accounting side of a persons nature. theres lots of risks as a shareholder, but you expect a return for assuming that risk.
dont forget about dumping shares to open a position, you dont need to be loyal sell it till it bleeds..
and... it may help if you can say what you objectives are ?
make money or be right...? do not worry about proving people wrong and yourself right, it will likely cost you big time, hasn't your mentor mentioned anything about this ? just welcome difference thats when opportunity to make money is greatest, when those opinions cant be changed by the owner.. err they will be forced.
dont forget about dumping shares to open a position, you dont need to be loyal sell it till it bleeds..
and... it may help if you can say what you objectives are ?
make money or be right...? do not worry about proving people wrong and yourself right, it will likely cost you big time, hasn't your mentor mentioned anything about this ? just welcome difference thats when opportunity to make money is greatest, when those opinions cant be changed by the owner.. err they will be forced.
GameOver22
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Again..........long.
I hold for up to 2 years.
I hold for up to 2 years.
nine
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Gameover,
And, acknowledging that you can't be convinced otherwise, I will simply be amazed that you are (and I suppose, will always be) able to select your purchases so perfectly that you never have a losing "trade" (which would make you a self-defined gambler).
You might note as well that very few here would consider you to be a trader. On the contrary you are almost certainly an investor and it would seem that you will probably become a very long term investor should you find your shares declining in value.
__________________
The things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the justifications and
arguments are the least important part of the belief. That's why you can win the argument, prove them
wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place. You've attacked the wrong thing.
So what do you do? Agree to disagree. Or fight. - C. Zakalwe.
And, acknowledging that you can't be convinced otherwise, I will simply be amazed that you are (and I suppose, will always be) able to select your purchases so perfectly that you never have a losing "trade" (which would make you a self-defined gambler).
You might note as well that very few here would consider you to be a trader. On the contrary you are almost certainly an investor and it would seem that you will probably become a very long term investor should you find your shares declining in value.
__________________
The things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the justifications and
arguments are the least important part of the belief. That's why you can win the argument, prove them
wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place. You've attacked the wrong thing.
So what do you do? Agree to disagree. Or fight. - C. Zakalwe.
GameOver22
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Heres the type of long term chart i like..........
Its 11:20pm now!
Its 11:20pm now!
GameOver22
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Damn, you cant see the dates, sorry guys.
The break out was in July 2005.
I dont like day trading, i like minimal risk.
Have a good night, and a happy new years eve.
Matt
The break out was in July 2005.
I dont like day trading, i like minimal risk.
Have a good night, and a happy new years eve.
Matt
fxmarkets
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That spunky attitude of his needs to be beaten out of him, as joe ross commented, the markets will yield the stick... then what are you gonna do.... i mean who can you gonna call Ghostbusters? and que Ray parker jnr.........# I aint frade of no ghost.......
Gameover22 now I got a film this chrimbo and I want to share this with you, the film is called "Freddie Got Fingered" 🙂
Now cut to scene of man dating cripple in wheel chair, and man whacking said cripples legs as hard as he can ,but I suspect not as hard as she would of liked, over and over again..... thats the market beating newcommers ........
Its a good film if not in taste for some, but escapism, fantastic.. best pressie I got.
Gameover22 now I got a film this chrimbo and I want to share this with you, the film is called "Freddie Got Fingered" 🙂
Now cut to scene of man dating cripple in wheel chair, and man whacking said cripples legs as hard as he can ,but I suspect not as hard as she would of liked, over and over again..... thats the market beating newcommers ........
Its a good film if not in taste for some, but escapism, fantastic.. best pressie I got.
"I dont know what to call Forex, but by definition, its not gambling, risk is involved, but its simply not gamling, i cant make it any clearer than i have already with two definitions for you."
By definition: Traders are merchants and speculators. We buy low sell high, Sell high buy low. If we're any good that is.
It's a business. We are business owners.
By definition: Traders are merchants and speculators. We buy low sell high, Sell high buy low. If we're any good that is.
It's a business. We are business owners.
mickandpete
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One thought for you Gameover
Your chart is NOT a forecast of future events ,it is a history of past prices.
Your chart is NOT a forecast of future events ,it is a history of past prices.
mickandpete
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Collins English Dictionary 21st Century Edition
Gamble:
1 To play games of chance to win money
2 To risk or bet (money) on the outcome of an event,sport,etc
3 To act with the expectation of :to gamble on its being a sunny day
4 (often foll by away) to lose by or if by betting; squander
5 A risky act or venture
6 A bet,wager,or other risk or chance taken for possible monetary gain
Invest:
( Too many definitions to list, the pertinent being)
1 (often foll by in) to lay out (money or capital in an enterprise,esp. by purchasing shares) with the expectation of profit
Profit:
2 the monetary gain derived from a transaction
IMO The purchase of shares cannot be defined as "Risk free" and therefore carry risk, and under definitions 5 & 6 are a gamble.
Gamble:
1 To play games of chance to win money
2 To risk or bet (money) on the outcome of an event,sport,etc
3 To act with the expectation of :to gamble on its being a sunny day
4 (often foll by away) to lose by or if by betting; squander
5 A risky act or venture
6 A bet,wager,or other risk or chance taken for possible monetary gain
Invest:
( Too many definitions to list, the pertinent being)
1 (often foll by in) to lay out (money or capital in an enterprise,esp. by purchasing shares) with the expectation of profit
Profit:
2 the monetary gain derived from a transaction
IMO The purchase of shares cannot be defined as "Risk free" and therefore carry risk, and under definitions 5 & 6 are a gamble.
GameOver22
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MikeandPete,
You are WRONG.
They ARE risk free, because as stated, not everybody buy shares to make a profit! Some people buy shares to gain control of a company, or just to be a share holder, to get the benefits of being a shareholder, so you are wrong.
Buying or selling shares is not gambling, and i thankyou for clearing that up further MikeandPete, good evening to all.
You are WRONG.
They ARE risk free, because as stated, not everybody buy shares to make a profit! Some people buy shares to gain control of a company, or just to be a share holder, to get the benefits of being a shareholder, so you are wrong.
Buying or selling shares is not gambling, and i thankyou for clearing that up further MikeandPete, good evening to all.
GameOver22 said:
No sir, you ARE WRONG - your emphases.
But thank goodness there are idiots like you around to hoover up the crap in the market
Its people like you that make up the majority of the 45k menmbers here, and fortunately make up the 80% of the so called market - long may you continue, and I wish you a happy new year.
