Greedy p*gs

[counter_violent]

and bill clinton. glass-steagall for anyone?

saying the "majority" of bank traders are clueless is simply not true.

It is true...they all followed each other over the cliff...lemmings

 

[meanreversion]

No bank operates a formal training process to teach its traders how to trade. The idea is you sit next to a trader, and learn by osmosis. Not many traders are good teachers (why would they be), so the level of education is incredibly variable. (Is there any other profession where no formal training is required? Maybe being an MP?)

Senior managers have their own accounts in which to trade, even if they've never actually traded before. This is fatal. They take large positions which become high profile with the result that ego takes over, and they run their losses far too long.

However, as I said, this misses the point. The majority of bank traders have made large amounts of money for themselves, and until the current system of incentivisation changes, the imperfect system will continue.

 

[Pat494]

The future looks really rough on poorly run companies. Competition will definately increase imho. The one's unable to go up a gear in their game for whatever reason have a bleak future.

While the Govt has control of RBS it could upgrade its systems to make it more competitive, but will the present politicians have the will or be the spineless jellies that most people fear ??

That is the question ?????????????????

 

[Ferru]

I'm sure they are worth every penny...

Joking aside, if top bankers get millions because of what they've learned rather that what they are born with, then surely that can be addressed by the government devoting additional resources to training. Perhaps the top guys are born with extreme focus, determination and intelligence, and are simply cashing in on their genes, but I suspect their skills can be taught in the classroom. If thousands of footballers had Wayne Rooney's skills, he wouldn't get paid millions, and the same must apply to bankers on multi-million pound bonuses.

Jeff

I cannot see what the problem is here as the planned bonus of £1.5Bn only works out at £75K per employee


Paul

 

[Ferru]

I can't see why people object to paying bankers the bonuses they are contractually entitled to. This is a classic case of caveat emptor - the banks should have made sure that their bonuses were structured in such a way as to avoid rewarding failure. People don't clamour for footballers who have underperformed, resulting in their team's relegation, not to be paid, and the situation with bad traders is no different. Let's just hope that lessons have been learned, and in future bankers are rewarded for sensible, but not excessive, risk taking.

Jeff

And if they have lost £200 Billion that justifies a nice fat reward I suppose ??

No no no there must be retribution for a job very badly done.

Fair enough they get big rewards when they are making big profits BUT when they fail dismally on the 1st rule of banking they should suffer and be seen to suffer to deter others.

I'm not suggesting locking them up somewhere at the taxpayer's further expense !!
Oh no I'm suggesting they get stripped of all their assets bar £500 and the clothes they stand up in. Throw them out on the street - lesson learnt and probably never to be repeated. See if their rich buddies take them back in ?

 

[Ferru]

I could be wrong, but I imagine that top banks sack useless traders, rather than heaping huge bonuses upon them...

Jeff

When you win you keep the money
When you lose you get more money
When you start winning again, you keep the money

it's the perfect EA

 

[chilltrader]

Spoken like someone who knows sweet FA about how an investment bank works.

You want to know who is at fault? Look no further than one-eye in number 10 and his bunch of back-slapping cronies. I still remember THAT Mansion House speech...

So say we do let the "talentless" staff leave RBS; who then steps in? You don't pay enough nobody in the City would move there. That leaves the problem of who runs the books-I'm fairly certain my local plumber can't run a European swaptions book or a small cap delta-one equity book. People have plenty to say, much of it lacking substance and certainlt no concrete answers.

Oh wise one! didn't realise the one-eyed monster was busy creating financial derivatives
or "financial weapons of mass destruction" and swapping it across the globe single handedly, while the "heavily skilled and talented" b(w)ankers are mere victims!



There are enough people around to run these overly hyped businesses.

My plumber, electrician, barber etc do more complex, challenging and socially useful things... Thank You!

 

[N Rothschild]

human greed caused the financial meltdown, dont know what more of a reason people need to explain it?

 

[Prawnsandwich]

I can't see why people object to paying bankers the bonuses they are contractually entitled to. This is a classic case of caveat emptor - the banks should have made sure that their bonuses were structured in such a way as to avoid rewarding failure. People don't clamour for footballers who have underperformed, resulting in their team's relegation, not to be paid, and the situation with bad traders is no different. Let's just hope that lessons have been learned, and in future bankers are rewarded for sensible, but not excessive, risk taking.

Jeff

I think your missing the whole point - the bankers who brought the world to the edge of the abyss ARE being rewarded by bonuses, the same bankers who have plunged various nations into generations of debt...we're talking pain and misery for millions of people....

Feck their Contracts, whats happened should be viewed as a cause majeure rendering those contracts null and void.

IN any event they're effectively owned by the taxpayer now....its fairly pathetic to hear them referred to as talent etc.....particularly annoying is the pathetic weakness of government to act strongly on behalf of taxpayers / citizens in dealing with these parasites

 

[Ferru]

Hi Prawnsandwich

I can understand people's anger at rewarding the bankers who caused the financial crisis. But the bankers responsible for encouraging million pound mortgages to people on the dole are few in number. If you were a successful Forex trader who had naff all to do with causing the current crisis, you'd be a more than a little angry if some vote-grabbing politician tried to reduce your bonus!

As for the people concerned being talented, they get paid millions for the same reason that Premiership footballers get paid millions - because they have a valuable skill that few people possess. You need world-class remuneration to attract and retain world-class talent.

Jeff

I think your missing the whole point - the bankers who brought the world to the edge of the abyss ARE being rewarded by bonuses, the same bankers who have plunged various nations into generations of debt...we're talking pain and misery for millions of people....

Feck their Contracts, whats happened should be viewed as a cause majeure rendering those contracts null and void.

IN any event they're effectively owned by the taxpayer now....its fairly pathetic to hear them referred to as talent etc.....particularly annoying is the pathetic weakness of government to act strongly on behalf of taxpayers / citizens in dealing with these parasites

 

[Pat494]

Hi Prawnsandwich

IAs for the people concerned being talented, they get paid millions for the same reason that Premiership footballers get paid millions - because they have a valuable skill that few people possess. You need world-class remuneration to attract and retain world-class talent.

Jeff

I was flabbergasted to read that the UK's 4 top bankers hadn't got a single banking qualification between them. So where did they suddenly get their almost magical banking skills from ? the tooth fairy ???
Come on Jeff - face the facts unless you happen to be a banker. They are very ordinary and very greedy and wholly selfish. Tony Blair suddenly became a top banker at JP Morgan. I feel sure that wasn't because he knew much about banking !!
Political sleaze more like. No doubt US bankers benefited from his Marxist nonsense hahaha

 

[Ferru]

Surely the top 4 bankers' experience gives them the knowledge and skills they need. I imagine you learn a thing or two about your industry by working 16+ hour days over 20 + years... And I doubt very much that shareholders would let top bankers pay themselves bonuses totalling billions of pounds if it weren't in their own interest to do so.

As for Tony Blair, I suspect he became a top banker because of his contacts. How many other bankers can ring any world leader and expect to be put straight through? That said, if I were Morgan Stanley's PR director, I'd be a tad concerned about the fact that my company had taken on a man whose fine judgement had taken us into war with Iraq, and who is loathed at home and abroad for doing so...

Jeff

I was flabbergasted to read that the UK's 4 top bankers hadn't got a single banking qualification between them. So where did they suddenly get their almost magical banking skills from ? the tooth fairy ???
Come on Jeff - face the facts unless you happen to be a banker. They are very ordinary and very greedy and wholly selfish. Tony Blair suddenly became a top banker at JP Morgan. I feel sure that wasn't because he knew much about banking !!
Political sleaze more like. No doubt US bankers benefited from his Marxist nonsense hahaha

 

[PewPewPew!]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article6945945.ece

God I hope they recruit a lot of newbies. They could implode if they did.

 

[Prawnsandwich]

Hi Prawnsandwich

I can understand people's anger at rewarding the bankers who caused the financial crisis. But the bankers responsible for encouraging million pound mortgages to people on the dole are few in number. If you were a successful Forex trader who had naff all to do with causing the current crisis, you'd be a more than a little angry if some vote-grabbing politician tried to reduce your bonus!

As for the people concerned being talented, they get paid millions for the same reason that Premiership footballers get paid millions - because they have a valuable skill that few people possess. You need world-class remuneration to attract and retain world-class talent.

Jeff

Valuable skill being driving these firms into massive losses, bringing down economies and placing generataions in debt in order to enrich themselves in the short term, by setting their own bonuses, knwing full well that the policies they were persuing were likely to result in a massive crash...then using tax payer money to continue to pay themselves massively for such incompetence ?

Yup thats world class talent for ya !

 

[Prawnsandwich]

Valuable skill being driving these firms into massive losses, bringing down economies and placing generataions in debt in order to enrich themselves in the short term, by setting their own bonuses, knwing full well that the policies they were persuing were likely to result in a massive crash...then using tax payer money to continue to pay themselves massively for such incompetence ?

Yup thats world class talent for ya !

Obviously you cant just deal with one firm in isolation, or you have whats happening with RBS...

 

[Pat494]

Valuable skill being driving these firms into massive losses, bringing down economies and placing generataions in debt in order to enrich themselves in the short term, by setting their own bonuses, knwing full well that the policies they were persuing were likely to result in a massive crash...then using tax payer money to continue to pay themselves massively for such incompetence ?

Yup thats world class talent for ya !

What really bugs me is that they are continuing on in the same old way as if they hadn't been caught in the act. A sort of double sucks to you rabble, cos we are too important to touch attitude !!

The politicos, yes those "hands in the till" lot that we have learnt to despise, are too bought/intimidated to do something except make some feeble verbal protests obviously hoping to cool the fury.

 

[spreader_legger]

Problem is, if this Tobin tax proposal gets passed through, it will be the retail traders that will suffer the most. As usual, the many have to suffer for the indiscretions of the few (who are usually best equipped to bypass any new restrictions imposed).

Any sanctions should in effect be targeted at those responsible

 

[Ferru]

You are talking there about a small minority of bankers. Many bankers will have worked hard and added value to their banks. How is it fair that they get tarred with the same brush as the bankers who made the mistakes that lead to the financial crisis?

Jeff

Valuable skill being driving these firms into massive losses, bringing down economies and placing generataions in debt in order to enrich themselves in the short term, by setting their own bonuses, knwing full well that the policies they were persuing were likely to result in a massive crash...then using tax payer money to continue to pay themselves massively for such incompetence ?

Yup thats world class talent for ya !

 

[Mr. Charts]

You are talking there about a small minority of bankers. Many bankers will have worked hard and added value to their banks. How is it fair that they get tarred with the same brush as the bankers who made the mistakes that lead to the financial crisis?

Jeff

Absolutely spot on !

The same old sh*t......condemn everybody in an identifiable group, job, race, religion, whatever, for the actions of a few.........same in a thousand different situations in a thousand different places........condemn all British soldiers if a handful abuse and even kill an Iraqi prisoner.......condemn all rail maintenance workers if a team of two don't do their job properly and a train crashes.....condemn all lawyers if a handful are crooked......ad infinitum.

 

[Prawnsandwich]

Absolutely spot on !

The same old sh*t......condemn everybody in an identifiable group, job, race, religion, whatever, for the actions of a few.........same in a thousand different situations in a thousand different places........condemn all British soldiers if a handful abuse and even kill an Iraqi prisoner.......condemn all rail maintenance workers if a team of two don't do their job properly and a train crashes.....condemn all lawyers if a handful are crooked......ad infinitum.

Don't be ridiculous, what are you talking about ? Condemning all maintenance workers for the actions of two , iraq ? I'm not sure what discussion your having to but its not what is being discussed here ..

Of course not all bankers are being condemned, Im sure there are some great people in banking...what we're talking about is senior management and systemic incompetence and greed right across the banking sector right from the sub-prime / liars loans debacle in the states to Europe where banks complelely overexposed / over leverged themselves and moved away from any semblence of proper corporate governance and good practice..