FXCM -vs- DCFX Spread Challenge II

[the hare]

I couldn’t find any dirt on them post NYSE listing.

I'd be amazed if anyone could change the culture in an organization like FXCM at the drop of a hat.

On the balance of probability, you'd have to bet its because they haven't been caught yet.

Anyone even attempting to trade with those spreads needs psychiatric treatment (unless their objective is to lose money, in which case I'd suggest donating to a charity rather than FXCM)

 

[Vaco]

if your swing trading gunning for 100+ pips I don't see how those 'spreads' would cause a hinderance so severe that the trader should get his head examined.

Also when trading with limit orders rather then market, I would rather pay the broker via the spread instead of commision.

 

[R.Charnock]

if your swing trading gunning for 100+ pips I don't see how those 'spreads' would cause a hinderance so severe that the trader should get his head examined.

Also when trading with limit orders rather then market, I would rather pay the broker via the spread instead of commision.

Even if you trade with 100 pip/pt targets, why give away 1-2% of the profit?

 

[Vaco]

Even if you trade with 100 pip/pt targets, why give away 1-2% of the profit?

I'm not saying you should, all i'm saying is that you can still be profitable.

Also you ignored my point regarding limit orders vs market orders.

lets say I place a limit order with both brokers to buy EJ at 96.00 and sell it at 97.00

both orders are hit and I make 100 pips I pay DCFX the commision of $6.

What have I paid FXcM and how has it effected my profit on that trade?

 

[R.Charnock]

I'm not saying you should, all i'm saying is that you can still be profitable.

Also you ignored my point regarding limit orders vs market orders.

lets say I place a limit order with both brokers to buy EJ at 96.00 and sell it at 97.00

both orders are hit and I make 100 pips I pay DCFX the commision of $6.

What have I paid FXcM and how has it effected my profit on that trade?

Yes, fair enough, but if you don't close everything with limits a wider spread just eats into your profit, or increases your loss. Trading shorter tfs with lower targets, paying 4pt instead of 1pt, as with US30, makes a huge difference.

 

[Vaco]

Yes, fair enough, but if you don't close everything with limits a wider spread just eats into your profit, or increases your loss. Trading shorter tfs with lower targets, paying 4pt instead of 1pt, as with US30, makes a huge difference.

Yes thats true,

I'm not defending higher spreads, I'm just saying that it is not always the issue its been made out to be on here.

 

[jungles]

you could be right, perhaps they just havent been caught again

.........but do you have proof or are just saying so because you can type!?

if you have proof, great lets see it, i'll be first to move to LMAX

at present i can only go with my own experience and the changes that have occurred for FXCM since public listing........everything's been good and the spreads (as shown) are no problem to me

I'd be amazed if anyone could change the culture in an organization like FXCM at the drop of a hat.

On the balance of probability, you'd have to bet its because they haven't been caught yet.

Anyone even attempting to trade with those spreads needs psychiatric treatment (unless their objective is to lose money, in which case I'd suggest donating to a charity rather than FXCM)

 

[Jason Rogers]

at present i can only go with my own experience and the changes that have occurred for FXCM since public listing........everything's been good and the spreads (as shown) are no problem to me

Hi Jungles,

Glad to hear you're happy with our service

I only wanted to point out a few key facts that the original poster left out of his video. The biggest one is that it compares FXCM's spreads which include our pip markup to another company's spreads which do not include the additional commission they charge you.

FXCM gets its forex prices from 10+ liquidity providers and the best bid/ask spread is automatically displayed on the platform with FXCM’s pip mark-up which acts as a commission. Full disclosure: even after you factor in their commission, their quoted spread stills seems cheaper, but that brings me to my second point. The original poster posed the question: "What extra are you getting from FXCM?"

Well for starters, you get to deal with an industry leader, one of the few publicly traded forex brokers listed on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE: FXCM). That gives our clients the confidence that a privately held broker simply cannot, and safety of funds is especially important after the failure of firms like PFG and WorldSpreads.

I know that spreads for some traders are the only factor they focus on when trading, but if that were the only important factor when choosing a broker then other brokers would probably have more clients than FXCM. As an example, WorldSpreads out of the UK used to offer 0 spreads, so they must have been very popular, but you can read what happened to them. And information on futures brokers operating on razor thin margins. Experienced traders know that the spread is but one important factor in addition to others such as 24 hour customer support, trading platforms offered, education, resources, etc.

Since FXCM is compensated by trading volume via NDD forex execution, we are able to offer lower spreads/commission for traders that trade at least 10 million notional volume per month or have an account balance of at least $50k. Below are the typical spreads for the top traded currency pairs on active trader, and the starting commission is $3.50 per side for a 100k lot.

Good trading, everyone!

Jason

 

[R.Charnock]

Hi Jungles,

Glad to hear you're happy with our service

I only wanted to point out a few key facts that the original poster left out of his video. The biggest one is that it compares FXCM's spreads which include our pip markup to another company's spreads which do not include the additional commission they charge you.

FXCM gets its forex prices from 10+ liquidity providers and the best bid/ask spread is automatically displayed on the platform with FXCM’s pip mark-up which acts as a commission. Full disclosure: even after you factor in their commission, their quoted spread stills seems cheaper, but that brings me to my second point. The original poster posed the question: "What extra are you getting from FXCM?"

Well for starters, you get to deal with an industry leader, one of the few publicly traded forex brokers listed on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE: FXCM). That gives our clients the confidence that a privately held broker simply cannot, and safety of funds is especially important after the failure of firms like PFG and WorldSpreads.

I know that spreads for some traders are the only factor they focus on when trading, but if that were the only important factor when choosing a broker then other brokers would probably have more clients than FXCM. As an example, WorldSpreads out of the UK used to offer 0 spreads, so they must have been very popular, but you can read what happened to them. And information on futures brokers operating on razor thin margins. Experienced traders know that the spread is but one important factor in addition to others such as 24 hour customer support, trading platforms offered, education, resources, etc.

Since FXCM is compensated by trading volume via NDD forex execution, we are able to offer lower spreads/commission for traders that trade at least 10 million notional volume per month or have an account balance of at least $50k. Below are the typical spreads for the top traded currency pairs on active trader, and the starting commission is $3.50 per side for a 100k lot.

Good trading, everyone!

Jason

That's all been said before, but surely you realise that some traders have to focus on spreads because if they didn't they'd make a loss instead of a profit? If, for instance, someone makes an average of 50pt a day on US30/WS30/Dow/YM, or whatever you want to call it, making maybe 20-70 trades with 1pt spread, it doesn't take rocket science to work out that trying to do the same with FXCM with 4pt spread is a non-starter.

 

[TraderNumber7]

PDT rule needs to change IMO.

100% in agreement.

 

[TraderNumber7]

Sir, you make me laugh. Perhaps you should try stand up comedy. You individually attempted to pick apart EACH sentence in my post. A bit anal, eh? I stand behind every word I said. You are telling us that commissions don't mean anything when comparing a non-comm broker to a comm broker?? Also I suggest YOU review the video. And of course if you actually read some threads here on t2w and get involved then you'd understand about the "loose" and "lose". But of course you can't be @arsed to actually contribute positively on the forum, only bash FXCM.

You want links/proof of your vendetta or other issues against FXCM?? How about the 4 threads you started one right after another all bashing FXCM, (1 thread was removed!) and the pages and pages of Jason bashing on the FXCM thread. I'm not putting those links here. If you want to advertise your personal issues with FXCM then do your own dirty work.

Oh, and in case you forgot where you put those threads, PM me and I'll send you the links.

Peter

It would seem to me, given the material inside the video, that you are flying cover for FXCM. The only question is why?

As for me, I don't trade retail anymore. I've been off Retail FX platforms for over 3 full years now. I spent about 2 years with BARX and now trade on FXAll with a PB relationship that I like very much (thank you).

What's so transparent here, is your total lack of understanding. And, what I find funny, is the fact that someone can put such a video right on your screen and yet, you find a way to protect FXCM. I would say that you might want get your fact straight and probably re-view the videos once again. These videos clearly show a problem with FXCM and its statements about "lowest spreads in the industry."

Lastly, you don't see a single post here from me that tells anyone that commissions have no effect on the cost of doing business for the trader. What I clearly pointed out is that even WITH the DCFC commission, the differential in spreads between both FXCM and DCFX, are more than large enough to create a huge differential in the total cost of doing business for the Trader, on a per trade basis. Apparently, you did not do the math.

FXCM, has none of my Production Trading Business. They are not FXAll and the over $300k that I net out live in under 72 hours right here on Trade2Win in another 17 pair simultaneous trade profile, was NOT done on the FXCM trading platform. That profile as done on BARX, back in 2010.

The videos speak for themselves.

 

[TraderNumber7]

Hi Peter,

Where to start '

How about with whether or not FXCM takes a position against ANY of its Retail Customer Accounts?

Does FXCM carry its Retail Customers to the Interbank Market for execution?

Does FXCM offer ANY spread advantage to ANY of its "other" Customers for ANY FX trade?

Does FXCM prevent its prices from keeping pace with the rest of the "Retail OTC" FX Market? (be very careful how you answer that one)

Why does FXCM refuse to publish the names of each of its 10 liquidity providers, in the same manner that other Retail FX Brokers do?

Why does FXCM execute a customers' order on MT4, and then "account" or "book" that same transaction on Trade Station II, where the differential in execution, timing and price, does not match what the customer knows to be factual about their transaction?

These are just a few of the questions that I and many others have with respect to "where to start."

First of all regarding the video, FXCM receives prices from 10+ liquidity providers ....

Blah, blah, blah. You've been cutting and pasting that same tired statement all over the net, instead of answering the question forthrightly, honestly and squarely. Try giving an answer that actually has something to do with the question, please.

While I believe the vast majority of traders on the forum are here for an actual legitimate discussion, some users are here simply to spam and have an agenda. Traders can decide for themselves:

So, if I post a series of videos that show DIFFERENT problems with FXCM, FXCM's statements to the public, FXCM's marketing habits and FXCM's false claims about its spreads - then I'm 'spamming' the board?

That means that we cannot post FACTS at anytime that are contrary to what FXCM publishes, has published in the past, and/or continues to publish today? Do I understand your logic correctly?

Jason, you can't win this argument. So, why even try? Why not just come forward and admit that FXCM is a genuine Bucket Shop? You are not providing true Interbank liquidity to your customers, yet FXCM used to plaster that false and misleading message all over its website, years ago.

You talk out of both sides of your mouth. One the one hand, FXCM claims to have some of the lowest spreads in the industry. Yet, out of the other side of the same mouth, you claim that FXCM is not like other Brokers who "fix the spread." That implies that FXCM is offering TRUE Interbank spreads, which is completely false and misleading. Somehow, you can't see that as being dishonest and false.

The other video that I posted was produced by ANOTHER FXCM CUSTOMER - not me. That video CLEARLY showed that when FXCM is not "fixing" its spreads, that it suppresses its Core Pricing. Are you going to deny that the video actually shows this fact?

How do you explain the suppression of FXCM Core Pricing? In the video, all the other Retail platforms moved in generally the same direction AT THE SAME TIME. Only FXCM's Core Pricing lagged the rest of the market - sometimes by as much as 15 pips! How does FXCM account for this, Jason?

You can sit here and try to shoot the messenger all day long, and it will only get more transparent for the astute reader.

You work for a Bucket Shop. Just admit that and stop pretending that things are otherwise. Your entire business model is predicated on BEING a Bucket Shop, Jason. You can't be anything other than that, given the Business Model you operate under. It would be impossible to do!

So, the fact that you are here pointing to useless threads where I am correcting equally as clueless people about the nature of Retail FX, people who obviously have not done the homework, or people truly on some kind of vendetta mission, rather than simply get honest with the FXCM Retail Customer and the Newbie, seeking information about which Retail Broker to open an account with, is proof positive that these videos must have struck a nerve.

You keep back peddling any faster and you will single handily create a new Olympic Event, all by yourself.

Now, please, deal with the questions above in an honest and professional fashion.

 

[TraderNumber7]

You make a fair point and I certainly agree but in this case T7's motives are not entirely clear but it's not due to a suspicion. His posts are deliberately misleading and full of questionable "facts" as he states them. You don't attempt to prove your broker is dishonest by being dishonest or manipulative yourself.

Peter

How the heck do you know anything about me, or my motives? You don't know me, my motives and apparently, not much about how the Retail Bucket Shop Industry works.

Can you please provide some links that back-up your claims? I've provided factual evidence in the form of multiple videos up to this point. What have you provided this thread, other than off the wall commentary that you can't back-up, even if your life depended on it?

Start providing some facts. Like post a video that clearly shows FXCM spreads as they advertise "some of the lowest in the industry." Then post a video showing that FXCM Core Pricing does not lag the rest of the so-called "Retail" market.

If you knew anything at all, then you would already know that most of these Retail Buckets are using the EXACT same LPs and thus, their Core Pricing should be relatively close - unless somebody is manipulating the aggregate Retail sentiment on price.

If you are going to defend FXCM, then you really need to do a better job than this.

 

[TraderNumber7]

dear sir if the core spread is 10-20pips away from other spreads why dont u sell it and go long a spread with another broker which has a spread 20pips below?

I never said that an Arb moment did not exist. That wasn't the point of posting the other individuals video.

I posted the video to demonstrate the Core Price manipulation by FXCM relative to the other Retail Brokers. I never said the CP was lagging, I simply posted a video that showed it was lagging.

But, I think you do have an excellent point regarding the potential for Arbing that stuff, if it continues - that much is for certain.

 

[TraderNumber7]

Its a smear campaign against FXCM by competing business interests to malign the excellent reputation it has built for itself over the years.

Tradernumber7 is as much an institutional trader as Mike Bagndaddy is a world champion of trading. The word "institutional trader" is molested by scam artists on frequent basis.

This kind of hate crime should not be tolerated.

Institutional means that you trade OFF the Retail Bucket Shop platforms for produce mode trading. That's all it means. If you are capable of a PB relationship, then you can legitimately call yourself an Institutional Trader. I did not create the term - the industry did.

You might want to go look at the live trades I have done on this board, the cost basis used in the trades and the net profit from each trade, as well as the aggregate net profit for the entire trade profile, and then come back here and repeat your claim.

I'm not going to do your homework for you - the thread is here that contains some of my live trading and the level (size) at which I traded back in 2010.

I'm about 3 times that size today (cost basis per trade), so do the math on that.

 

[TraderNumber7]

in terms of spreads, the attached FXCM spreads are pretty representative,
so no complaints from me.......but i'm not a scalper

Can you post a video done LIVE on the FXCM platform that produced these spreads, please?

A picture is worth a thousand words, but a video with time and date stamps is priceless. That's what I've posted - please do the same.

 

[TraderNumber7]

I'd be amazed if anyone could change the culture in an organization like FXCM at the drop of a hat.

On the balance of probability, you'd have to bet its because they haven't been caught yet.

Anyone even attempting to trade with those spreads needs psychiatric treatment (unless their objective is to lose money, in which case I'd suggest donating to a charity rather than FXCM)

In fact, I run a small live test account on FXCM. Why? I use a Retail platform to Stress Test my designs - period. I do development testing and debugging of automated systems in the back-tester, as I use multiple time frames on MT4. I then expand the spread to match what I consistently observe on FXCM's live platform. After that level of testing, I move the project over an small cash account, where I learn whether or not the system can at least break-even on that platform.

None of my production trading systems are ever proofed on the production system first. I proof them on a Retail platform first, and THEN shift the testing program over to my live institutional platform (FXAll). At that point, I already know what to expect from the system.

This way, I make it harder for the system to prove itself, before going live in a production environment. That's my way of doing things. Not everyone has to do it my way. That's the way I feel comfortable bringing a new design to market. If I can design it to be profitable in a Retail Bucket environment, then I know it will do better than expected in production mode. I don't have a single failing system running in production mode using this approach to design.

 

[TraderNumber7]

Hi Jungles,

Glad to hear you're happy with our service

I only wanted to point out a few key facts that the original poster left out of his video. The biggest one is that it compares FXCM's spreads which include our pip markup to another company's spreads which do not include the additional commission they charge you.

FXCM gets its forex prices from 10+ liquidity providers and the best bid/ask spread is automatically displayed on the platform with FXCM’s pip mark-up which acts as a commission. Full disclosure: even after you factor in their commission, their quoted spread stills seems cheaper, but that brings me to my second point. The original poster posed the question: "What extra are you getting from FXCM?"

Well for starters, you get to deal with an industry leader, one of the few publicly traded forex brokers listed on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE: FXCM). That gives our clients the confidence that a privately held broker simply cannot, and safety of funds is especially important after the failure of firms like PFG and WorldSpreads.

I know that spreads for some traders are the only factor they focus on when trading, but if that were the only important factor when choosing a broker then other brokers would probably have more clients than FXCM. As an example, WorldSpreads out of the UK used to offer 0 spreads, so they must have been very popular, but you can read what happened to them. And information on futures brokers operating on razor thin margins. Experienced traders know that the spread is but one important factor in addition to others such as 24 hour customer support, trading platforms offered, education, resources, etc.

Since FXCM is compensated by trading volume via NDD forex execution, we are able to offer lower spreads/commission for traders that trade at least 10 million notional volume per month or have an account balance of at least $50k. Below are the typical spreads for the top traded currency pairs on active trader, and the starting commission is $3.50 per side for a 100k lot.

Good trading, everyone!

Jason

$3.50 per side, is $0.50 more than DCFX, and with DCFX there is no $50k maintenance requirement, nor is there any volume requirement. So, even with Active Trader, FXCM still can't compare to DCFX and its vanilla offering.

What Nube, just getting into the business for the first time, having attended your Vega light show any particular year, will typically lay down the $50k to open an Active Trader account?

Why not simply offer the "lowest spreads in the industry," to all of your Customers? BTW - your Active Trade spreads are still 50 - 125% higher than the most basic DCFX Currenex Hub spreads for its Retail Customers. Why does DCFX beat FXCM hands down, on every platform offering that FXCM has to date?

 

[wackypete2]

You might have had too much coffee today.

Peter

 

[wackypete2]

Did anyone actually read all that gibberish? That's some serious non-stop posting. 9 consecutive posts in an hour and a half. Must be some olympic record. You could have just given us the concise version and told us you don't like FXCM.

Peter