FuturesBetting? Holy Moly !!

[JonnyT]

You can make £8400 if single or £16800 if married without any tax implication trading via IB.

With IB you are more likely to make money as the charges and spread are less.

If you trade size then you are certainly better off with IB using the unbundled pricing structure...

Sorry but I cannot see why any serious trader would use this Company.

JonnyT

 

[bulldozer]

I disagree entrirely with most of the posters on EliteTrader.

IB really ar egood IMHO.

JonnyT

====================================================================

:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

Do you reckon theres a conspiracy going on at ET against IB Then Jonny???? :cheesy:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=8

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=15743

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=51251

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...?threadid=51251

 

[A Dashing Blade]

you pay tax with IB (and every other futures broker I can think of)

you don't with FB

and if you are a spread better who trades in size (i.e. not 1p a point at Finspreads) then you are probably better off at FB than anywhere else.

I'm not a tax expert (thank God). But I think I am correct here?

I'd say so. At the end of the day FB are going to win this argument.
1) Deal through IB & pay tax
or
2) Deal through FB & possibly/probably (delete as appropriate) don't pay tax

FB is fully regulated.

That alone makes it a bit of a no-brainer, throw in the ability to trade at the real market price . . .

 

[JonnyT]

FB do not give the true market price. They add on to the true markets spread...e.g Dow spread is 4 real market is 1. Nasdaq real spread 0.5 here it is 3

FB is not regulated in the UK.

JonnyT

 

[jmatt]

Hi Chaps,

Well, I have been with EDITED for about a week now and I have to say I love it. I am not a big trader, about £10 pp was my old size on the Dow/Wall Street but love the way it all works, and much better than normal spreadbetting.

JonnyT, you are wrong, you do get the market prices, i have even sat and compared them with eSignal and they are bang on, all they do is, rather than charge a commission (like IB), they add on a bit of spread upon execution. and yes it is Tax free. I started to open an account with IB but the application took about 3 weeks and didn't like the platform (saw the demo). plus, I have to phone trade occassionally and IB only allow you to close positions and are bl00dy expensive to do so.

And as for the FSA regulation thing, I went through EDITED to make sure I went through a uk regulated company. Much better than any other spreadbetting company EDITED Am going to see them next week.

So in conclusion:

tax free
low cost
tight spreads
better platform
faster execution
live charts and live squark

So Dashing Blade, you are right....it is a no brainer

 

[bullcar]

tax free, tax free, tax free - RUBBISH!!!!! not if you are a professional.
WAKE UP EVERYBODY.
as for your other points, thats all fair comment jmatt

 

[rossored]

Hi Chaps,

Well, I have been with EDITED for about a week now and I have to say I love it. I am not a big trader, about £10 pp was my old size on the Dow/Wall Street but love the way it all works, and much better than normal spreadbetting.

JonnyT, you are wrong, you do get the market prices, i have even sat and compared them with eSignal and they are bang on, all they do is, rather than charge a commission (like IB), they add on a bit of spread upon execution. and yes it is Tax free. I started to open an account with IB but the application took about 3 weeks and didn't like the platform (saw the demo). plus, I have to phone trade occassionally and IB only allow you to close positions and are bl00dy expensive to do so.

And as for the FSA regulation thing, I went through EDITED to make sure I went through a uk regulated company. Much better than any other spreadbetting company EDITED Am going to see them next week.

So in conclusion:

tax free
low cost
tight spreads
better platform
faster execution
live charts and live squark

So Dashing Blade, you are right....it is a no brainer

By pure coincidence (I imagine), you happen to share the same IP address as at least one other user on this board who has previously identified himself as a broker at TwoWayFutures.

You wouldn't happen to have an alterior motive, would you?

Any more posts along these lines will be dealt with in the usual manner (perhaps you could relay that to your colleagues, too)

 

[bulldozer]

tax free, tax free, tax free - RUBBISH!!!!! not if you are a professional.
WAKE UP EVERYBODY.
as for your other points, thats all fair comment jmatt

=======================================================================
I think ALL people who trade thru brokers are professionals! cause they trade in real cash!
And i reckon a great majority have good accountants too :cheesy:

What you need to make sure is that you make a profit at the end of the tax year and then let your accountant do the rest. But if your not in profit at the end of tax year then u got nothing to worry about have you? Cause it is said by most brokers that more than 80 % of traders go bust anyway!

So in conclusion:
Make the profits first! and then deal wiv the tax problems! :cheesy:

Focus ALL your energy and mind in working a way to make profits first. :cheesy:

Bull

 

[nilesreturn44]

Well and Good!

All of the post about futuresbetting.com were great, but as far as I am concerned the bottom
line is "has anyone made money?" All the research in the world, and what nice guys they are is meaningless if you can't enjoy the bottomline. JB

I've been ignoring t2w for a while, so maybe this has been discussed(search reveals nowt), so at the risk of annoying the regular smart arses here, have you seen this fantastic sounding new product?

http://www.futuresbetting.com/home.php

This is a Gibraltar based 'new improved' SB but anchored to the Futures market via IB. You trade the market price plus fixed cost in and out. The firm takes your SB order and places a Futures trade with IB (matched). But it is absolutely tight to the market, no front running prices and trading against clients. Sounds good.

Tax free status too.

Anyone using this firm?

I'm considering leaving IB for this. But this is a gut reaction as I was told about this new firm 5 minutes ago!

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Chaps,

Well, I have been with EDITED for about a week now and I have to say I love it. I am not a big trader, about £10 pp was my old size on the Dow/Wall Street but love the way it all works, and much better than normal spreadbetting.

JonnyT, you are wrong, you do get the market prices, i have even sat and compared them with eSignal and they are bang on, all they do is, rather than charge a commission (like IB), they add on a bit of spread upon execution. and yes it is Tax free. I started to open an account with IB but the application took about 3 weeks and didn't like the platform (saw the demo). plus, I have to phone trade occassionally and IB only allow you to close positions and are bl00dy expensive to do so.

And as for the FSA regulation thing, I went through EDITED to make sure I went through a uk regulated company. Much better than any other spreadbetting company EDITED Am going to see them next week.

So in conclusion:

tax free
low cost
tight spreads
better platform
faster execution
live charts and live squark

So Dashing Blade, you are right....it is a no brainer

He's my take.

Mini Dow on IB (ECBOT)is $5 per point, spread is 1 commission is $2.06 per contract. i.e. all in all roughly 2 points.

The equivalent on the other site is 4 points. This is twice what you would pay with IB.

IB are regulated by the FSA in the UK.

These are regulated by the Financial Services Commission, Suite 943, Europort, Gibraltar, and licensed by the Government of Gibraltar to conduct financial spread betting.

If you trade full time then the winnings are likely to be classed as income. Have a look at the Deal4Free website where they actually suggest this...

IBs dealing platform is very comprehensive and fast. Additional there is a API and lots of free and commercial front ends to make life even easier should you chose.

IB are a very large concern amd recently were rated as the US's most solvent broker in an independent report.

IB are purely a broker. The quotes you get are straight off the markets. IB only make money from the commissions not the spread.

I opened an account with IB for a limited company last week in less than 24 hours. IB essentially follow a code to stop money laundering just like any other FSA regulated business. But the other firm are not FSA regulated are they...Mods Note : This is not to suggest that FuturesBetting is an unreliable or unprofessional organisation

If I were to spreadbet then I would choose someone like Deal4Free or Capital Spreads not an offshore organisation. Mods Note : This is not to suggest that FuturesBetting is an unreliable or unprofessional organisation - purely JonnyT's opinion


JonnyT

 

[A Dashing Blade]

OK, this is how FB work,

They wrap a comission around the bid and around the ask prices of the underlying future.

You can only deal in the size of the underlying, 10EUR/cent for bund, 25EUR/point for Dax etc, you click to trade and they "straight through" trade it on the exchange keeping the comission. Ie you trade the underlying future at the current price + a small (and negotiable downwards) commisssion.

On their software you see live (repeat live) price and depth.

The "clever" thing they've done is to get it recognised as spreadbetting.

Your money is held in domestic (UK branch of Barclays) client segregated accounts.

Tax implications . . . I'd wait until I'd made money before worrying about that and then pay a serious accountant a serious amount of money to mitagate my tax liabilities.

I still maintain it's a no-brainer.

Quick question for the IB fans out there, are IB prices real time or (as I think I read somewhere)
5 second snapshots.

 

[JonnyT]

Quick question for the IB fans out there, are IB prices real time or (as I think I read somewhere) 5 second snapshots.

They are live.

However the volume is sent in a compressed format that has to be sorted out.

I still main that it's a no brainer as the trading costs at IB are smaller and you are thus more likely to actually make a profit.

No one has commented how this outfit behaves on NFP announcements etc...

JonnyT

 

[zigglewigler]

I'm in Lalaland for a few weeks and have had the pleasure of using IB's homegrown help desk, just as surly as the one out in Germany or where ever.

IB has a big market cap, but under invests in staff, hence development on the platform has been poor. Never come across anyone that loves it. And don't anybody tell me now that you love it just to make me look stupid.

Not accepting the argument about FBs costs. Total E-mini contract cost quoted is $6 for 0-2000 lots. And that's if they start you off on the worst pricing plan. They charge in part according to experience. Cheapest entry level costs at IB aren't any better. Plus for me, the IB platform is a frickin cost in itself, mainly hair!

What I love, is the idea that somebody had a product suggestion added in two days!!!! WWWhoooopppeeeee!!!!!!!! I begged pleaded and whined to Cantor Index for months to improve one of their products, they said 'yeah we're thinking about it, but it's up to the tech boys and we can't hurry them'. **** me sideways!

The FSA are in the process of approving FB. It doesn't happen over night. So I can't see this as fair criticism of a new firm. You hear that JT?

FB are replacing the system they use for the platform in three weeks, so no more double entry.

And as for the suggestion that you should sb with D4F and the like, well I've already used one expletive, and frankly since I'm on holiday I don't think it appropriate to use more.

 

[badtrader]

I had an account with IB , never could get bloody hold of them. so I changed to a new broker. I seen them on a live web event. anyway they are based in london they are called Berkeley futures. I also got an account with capital spreads and city index. in fact I got all the spread bet accounts out there. although I dont use them all. I am now real trader trading a real account with my new broker in London,dont it sound posh.

 

[JonnyT]

The FSA are in the process of approving FB. It doesn't happen over night. So I can't see this as fair criticism of a new firm. You hear that JT?

Well when they are FSA regulated I'll take a look at their accounts and who owns them etc to see whether they are an acceptable Company to trade through.

Until then...

JonnyT

 

[c6ackp]

EU/US Equities on-line in December, etc.

FYI

FuturesBetting.com is pleased to inform you of our new betting services:


Equities – Commencing Monday 5th December 2005 you will be able use FuturesBetting.com to make rolling daily spread bets on UK FTSE 350 stocks, European constituents CAC 40, MIB 30, DAX 30 and AEX 30, and US S&P 100, DOW 30 and NasDaq 100 stocks. Details are to be shortly available on our website www.futuresbetting.com



Futures & Commodities – With effect from Tuesday 1st November, the upper limit of Band 2 is reduced from 2000 lots to 1000 lots per month. http://www.futuresbetting.com/ratecard-1.pdf



Telephone contact – You may now ring through to our offices in Gibraltar for the price of a local call only*:

020 7183 0500 (Switchboard)

020 7183 0431 (Dealers)

020 7183 0432 (Admin)

020 7183 0433 (Support)



If you wish to find out more, please call us using the numbers above or our international switchboard number + (350) 47310, or alternatively reply to this message and we will contact you.



Best Regards

The FuturesBetting.com Team

 

[JTrader]

They sound quite good, but having spoke to them, their prices are not as good as I had first interpreted them as...........

They advertise a 0.20 point starting spread on ES (SP500 emini), with 0-250 lots per month. What this means is that there is the regular 0.25 point bid offer spread, plus a 0.20 point spread on either side of the bid and offer prices. Thereofre the actual spread is 0.65.

Their spread reduces with the greater amount of lots that you trade, 251-1000 lots = 0.120, 1001-4000 lots = 0.080 points spread.

The good thing is that the spreads are FIXED either side of the futures price.

I think with this example, it is only good value if trading 251+, or maybe even above 1001 lots per month, in comparision to trading ES via direct access with IB.

All trades are automatically executed and automatically hedged into the futures market.

Capital spreads offer a 0.40 spread on daily rolling SP500.

The 15% initial margin requirement is also high. $4000 needed to trade 1 contract. Ib require $1188 initial intrday margin on ES.

Nevertheless their business model is very promising for a spreadbet company, and perhaps their spreads will narrow a bit in time?

They also told me that profits are still tax free for UK customers, despite them being in Gibraltar. As they are trying to attract UK customers, they are monitored by the FSA, and if the FSA see any problems with them, they will report them to the FSC in Gibraltar.

Sixteen people currently work at the Gibraltar office.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

The other way of looking at it is that they provide you with (effective) access to the actual underlying market and charge you 0.40 points per round trip wrapped up in a tax-free structure.

I'm still a fan.

 

[dcarrigan]

have set up demo account today looks good. while testing today the dow futures was at 10937/10938 .on cmc at the same time they were quoting 10921-10929 or there abouts.
if i wanted to sell thats 16points difference. this may be a one off so i will monitor for a week.
be lucky

 

[A Dashing Blade]

I had it in my mind that the demo account facility didn't include a real time feed