From Poker to Spread Betting

[DOWnButNotOut]

Good afternoon/evening,

I've currently taken an indefinite break from poker after deciding it's not something which I'd like to base the rest of my life doing. Instead I would like to learn to trade and spread bet, I'm currently taking my 'first steps' and have done 2 months research, I'm currently planning on opening a simulation account to monitor my progress, with no real money changing into an account until I am making a consistent small profit. I've still got 2 more books I plan on reading, and I'm still properly familiarising myself with analysis of the markets. My preference would be to daily trade the DOW or FTSE100.

I'm extremely disciplined with bankroll management as the last 5 years of Poker have taught me, I guess my question is, does a successful poker player (over £100k) winnings have an edge when it comes to spread betting or financial betting? Are some of the 'needed' attributes already semi embedded. As previously mentioned BRM is something which is completely natural to me and I'm able to be strict with my money, I'm obviously well versed in ratios, %'s, odds and understanding a position I'm not favourite but I have a shot which is worth investment. Or am I just as at risk as everyone else?

Ay help, tips or thoughts of poker players, spread betters or investors are welcome, and I look forward to being a regular here.

 

[PollyM]

Good afternoon/evening,

I've currently taken an indefinite break from poker after deciding it's not something which I'd like to base the rest of my life doing. Instead I would like to learn to trade and spread bet, I'm currently taking my 'first steps' and have done 2 months research, I'm currently planning on opening a simulation account to monitor my progress, with no real money changing into an account until I am making a consistent small profit. I've still got 2 more books I plan on reading, and I'm still properly familiarising myself with analysis of the markets. My preference would be to daily trade the DOW or FTSE100.

I'm extremely disciplined with bankroll management as the last 5 years of Poker have taught me, I guess my question is, does a successful poker player (over £100k) winnings have an edge when it comes to spread betting or financial betting? Are some of the 'needed' attributes already semi embedded. As previously mentioned BRM is something which is completely natural to me and I'm able to be strict with my money, I'm obviously well versed in ratios, %'s, odds and understanding a position I'm not favourite but I have a shot which is worth investment. Or am I just as at risk as everyone else?

Ay help, tips or thoughts of poker players, spread betters or investors are welcome, and I look forward to being a regular here.

Consistency is the key. Both in method and management. Find a theoretical method that will be consistently profitable for all time and then put it into practice, either in demo or live account. Start with small stakes, plough profits back into capital, and let the compounding effect take care of capital growth.

Once you know a method works in theory then this helps with patience and discipline. Follow the numbers and stick to a plan. You will come across many methods which are illustrated by 'set plays', where some exceptional profit making is demonstrated. However, these 'set plays' are few and far between, and whilst they will provide the main profit thrusts, it is the minimising of the loss-making trades which you will come across in the to-and-fro of the more predominant open play which is just as important.

Start mechanical, minimising all 'discretionary' moves. In the beginning, 'discretionary' usually means the finger-in-the-air approach. As the mechanical approach gives you more of a feel for the melody and rhythm of the market, then you can introduce more 'discretionary' or fine-tuning measures.

Hope this helps. I've done a few posts on the 'Where do I start?' thread, it may be worth having a look.

 

[PollyM]

Find the order amongst the chaos. Just because price movement appears random does not mean it cannot be mathematically modelled. Price movement traces a fractal pattern which to a large degree is measurable. The daily timeframe exhibits a moderate degree of randomicity which can be allowed for in the calculations. As you move into the smaller timeframes the volatility becomes more and more haphazard, becoming increasingly difficult to trade profitably. Always look to find markets where the volatilities are minimised, different factors affect this.

The more consistent you are, the more inconsistencies you will notice around you, which you can then filter out, at all times keeping things as simple as possible.

 

[timsk]

Hi DBNO,
Welcome to T2W.

I don't play poker, so I can't comment from personal experience. However, there are a couple of observations I can make. The first is that - as you point out in your OP - there are obvious connections between trading and poker. I don't recall ever having read of someone who's trading progress was impeded in any way by their experience of playing poker. As to whether or not it's a real advantage though - that's hard to say.

The obvious difference between the two is that a poker game has a limited number of players. If you're the best player at the table then, in theory anyway, you could win even though you're not very good yourself. Move up a notch or two and play against better opposition, and you're liable to come unstuck. Trading doesn't give you the luxury of being able to choose who you 'play' with. When you put a trade on, the very best traders in the world could be on the other side of it - looking to take your money. So, with every single trade you place, you have to assume that your opponent is much better than you, the equivalent of Victoria Coren - or whoever. (She's the only poker player I know!) As a newbie poker player, would you choose to play with real money knowing she was one of the players on your table?
Tim.

 

[price777999]

yes if you can play poker with discipline I think you have a good chance at doing well trading or spread betting .
I would recommend Alpari or GKFX as sb brokers as they both offer mt4 charts which I think are the best charts .

 

[price777999]

I'm extremely disciplined with bankroll management as the last 5 years of Poker have taught me, I guess my question is, does a successful poker player (over £100k) winnings

mind me asking what your starting account was ........i'v always wanted to be good at poker but if i srew up one hand i completely lose it , a bit like revenge trading !

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Open a DMA account and learn to trade properly. Don't spread bet, pros will laugh in your face.

 

[price777999]

Open a DMA account and learn to trade properly. Don't spread bet, pros will laugh in your face.

b0llocks

 

[counter_violent]

Good afternoon/evening,

I've currently taken an indefinite break from poker after deciding it's not something which I'd like to base the rest of my life doing. Instead I would like to learn to trade and spread bet, I'm currently taking my 'first steps' and have done 2 months research, I'm currently planning on opening a simulation account to monitor my progress, with no real money changing into an account until I am making a consistent small profit. I've still got 2 more books I plan on reading, and I'm still properly familiarising myself with analysis of the markets. My preference would be to daily trade the DOW or FTSE100.

I'm extremely disciplined with bankroll management as the last 5 years of Poker have taught me, I guess my question is, does a successful poker player (over £100k) winnings have an edge when it comes to spread betting or financial betting? Are some of the 'needed' attributes already semi embedded. As previously mentioned BRM is something which is completely natural to me and I'm able to be strict with my money, I'm obviously well versed in ratios, %'s, odds and understanding a position I'm not favourite but I have a shot which is worth investment. Or am I just as at risk as everyone else?

Ay help, tips or thoughts of poker players, spread betters or investors are welcome, and I look forward to being a regular here.

The three biggest advantages a poker player has are these.

Patience Having the wisdom to bide your time and keep it tight. Grind the trades out in the full knowledge that not every trade will be a winner nor a home run.


Discipline Maintaining your trading records, analysing strengths and weaknesses and never going on tilt. If the pot is lost, your severely weakened or worse, out of the game.

Pressing your advantage The same as in poker. When you are absolutely certain that the action is going your way and that the outcome is never in doubt, thats the time to press your advantage and capitalize. (Home run)

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

b0llocks

pah. it's not impossible to be profitable spread betting but for a newb it is virtually impossible as many things are stacked against you.

 

[DOWnButNotOut]

mind me asking what your starting account was ........i'v always wanted to be good at poker but if i srew up one hand i completely lose it , a bit like revenge trading !

I started with a $20 deposit on my 18th birthday. Turned that into the profit I now own, I can quite comfortably live off playing now, however trading has been something I have been keen to learn, the research and constant education I needed for poker was a big step. The learning curve was huge, but eventually I got there, fortunately for me I didn't nice have to reload my account, it was purely profit.

I somehow imagine I won't be blessed with the same good fortne in trading.

 

[DOWnButNotOut]

The three biggest advantages a poker player has are these.

Patience Having the wisdom to bide your time and keep it tight. Grind the trades out in the full knowledge that not every trade will be a winner nor a home run.


Discipline Maintaining your trading records, analysing strengths and weaknesses and never going on tilt. If the pot is lost, your severely weakened or worse, out of the game.

Pressing your advantage The same as in poker. When you are absolutely certain that the action is going your way and that the outcome is never in doubt, thats the time to press your advantage and capitalize. (Home run)

I absolutely agree with these, thank you I really hope I can apply the same principles thorough to trading, I'm sure I can. My attitude and reservation, protection from tilt was a great advantage in poker. As was my 'watermelon' tactic.

 

[MoonRocket]

'watermelon' tactic.

Can you tell us more?

 

[DOWnButNotOut]

Can you tell us more?

Quite simple really, I had the garage in my house completely lined, wall to ceiling with black bin bags, whenever I felt any anger building, I was experiencing a bad run, bad calls, variance, felt myself getting clouded thoughts, things that were affecting my decisions, I would remove myself from the situation and room and head to the garage. I would then proceed to spend 5-10 minutes, placing watermelons on baseball style practice stand (ones where you place the ball on top to practice your swing) I would then proceed to "bat" watermelons across the room, you wouldn't believe how relaxing and calming the process is. Nothing beats watching watermelon splat across ceiling and walls. After my anger was gone I'd head back in refreshed and free from anger.

 

[MoonRocket]

Quite simple really, I had the garage in my house completely lined, wall to ceiling with black bin bags,
I would then proceed to "bat" watermelons across the room,.....
Nothing beats watching watermelon splat across ceiling and walls.

Two questions.....What did your friends say when they seen the room and more importantly...Who cleaned up the mess?

 

[VielGeld]

That's quite... Creative.

But I approve. I think I could adapt it, too. Use Vendors instead of watermelons. It should set my priorities straight while doing a bit of good in the world.

 

[Splitlink]

b0llocks

And more b0ll0cks

CD doesn't know how to do it!

 

[DOWnButNotOut]

Two questions.....What did your friends say when they seen the room and more importantly...Who cleaned up the mess?

My friends knew what it was for, so that was fine, and it would usually be cleaned weekly it all depended how often I needed to visit it, and it was relatively easy to do I just peeled the bin bags off the wall and reapplied new ones. :clap:

 

[bbmac]

I find your user name interesting considering the success you have had in Poker ? Maybe it's a subliminal refernce to your money management techniques in Poker that have kept you ' in the game ' sufficiently long for you to be successful ? Whatever the case-Good Luck with your new venture into trading.

The trouble with starting anything new, and without getting all Donald Rumsfeld on ya - you don't yet know what you don't yet know...ie there is so much info out there you don't know which is useful or not.

You could do worse than to read this article as a primer from the excellent Brett Steenbarger (trading psychologist)

Five Guiding Principles of Trading Psychology

It's almost impossible to offer any words of wisdom that are not trite because they will just be more information that you do not as yet know whether are good or bad. But here goes;

1. Get your self a proven trading edge with a positive expectancy (buy/borrow/steal/plagurise one) ...Learn all you can about that trading edge from it's strike rate typical-maximum experiences through to the typical-maximum experiennced distributions of winning/losing trade sequence of that edge. Learn what an edge is and is not and conservatively optimise your risk and money managemnet to that strike rate.

2. Get screen time if choosing a technical edge - there is no substitute..it will teach you much about yourself -

3. You already have a head start with the Poker career so you will be aware of the psychological traps that can befall you. Trading is no different but there may well be others that at play in this arena that weren't in Poker ?

4. Ensure that your trading edge suits your personality and traits. For eg if you are like me and can't sit for 12 hours straight you may want to consider shorter t/f's as there are more opportunities in a shorter time period.

There is so much more that could be said, but it's probably enough for now.

G/L

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

prepare to feel like you do when you have got Aces in the pocket and a donk cleans you out on the river with a low pair but only this time you don't know why you got cleaned out.

You secretly mark the aces in a pack in a live tourny and proceed to clean up gives you that added little edge, now consider someone is playing at the table and can see everyones cards and doesnt have to post blinds, bigger edge.