Fat Prophets

[pboyles]

Pure nonsense - and not all cients lose money.

Forums such as this are an easy platform for all sorts of complaints and occasionally cranks. Anyone with a legitimate grievance is invited to contact us directly. (We are already investigating the issues raised by the lady above).

We are a well-established and respected company, with a good track record and regulated by the FSA in the UK, and ASIC in Australia. Our success is built as much on our commitment to private investors as it is to the performance of our recommendations over more than a decade.

Should your previous statement be based on fact, we would be most interested to hear from you.

It never ceases to amaze me how these 'cranks' seem to lose money with services like this. Isn't it strange how 'cranks' never post here to say they've made money?

Why don't you go ahead and explain your refund policy. That sounds like an interesting place to start.

 

[pboyles]

Pure nonsense - and not all cients lose money.
.

Not all clients lose money, talk about faint praise.

 

[the hare]

Every trader has their rough patch and it is true that a group of external traders who were contributing to the product did deliver a poor return late 2011,early 2012. Their contract has been terminated due to poor performance. Our new trading team is performing well since.

Why use "external" traders, don't you have the expertise in house ?

Surely you don't terminate a contract on the basis of a few poor months, there has to be more to it than that. You simply wouldn't get anyone credible trading for you under those terms.

 

[Fat boy]

It never ceases to amaze me how these 'cranks' seem to lose money with services like this. Isn't it strange how 'cranks' never post here to say they've made money?

Why don't you go ahead and explain your refund policy. That sounds like an interesting place to start.

Refund policy - section 9 of our Terms and Conditions published on our website

Member satisfaction is important to us, and we understand that our service will not suit everyone’s needs. Accordingly all new subscribers are entitled to a 14 day money back guarantee (please note that this does not apply to existing or past Members). Any introductory gifts, such as watches, must be returned in their original condition before a refund will be made.

In the event that the report does not fulfil your requirements, cancellations must be notified in writing and posted to:

Fat Prophets UK
17th Floor
1 Angel Court
London
EC2R 7HJ

The postmark on the envelope must be no later than 14 days after the subscription was initially taken. Please note, that without exception, refunds cannot be made after the initial 14 days. No pro rata refunds will be given under any circumstances.

I can only guess by your tone, you feel aggrieved for some reason. Sniping on here is going to achieve nothing; feel free to contact me to discuss.

 

[the hare]

In fairness 14 days is hardly sufficient time to evaluate a service, which by your own admission takes a long term investment view.

I do sympathize to some extent, as many clients do have completely unrealistic expectations. The problem is a company such as yours takes on multiple clients during a given period of time, and simply by random chance, at any point in time, some of those clients may be doing well, whilst others may be experiencing a draw-down.

When you start making arguments such as "not all of our customers lose money" whilst technically true, it isn't a particularly credible or ethical argument to make. There needs to be some overriding benchmark against which you can measure performance. The moment you start cherry picking particular bits of the product, or focusing on performance achieved by individual subscribers, you are on on really shaky ground, and you'll get called on it, particularly on whats supposed to be a trading forum.

 

[Fat boy]

In fairness 14 days is hardly sufficient time to evaluate a service, which by your own admission takes a long term investment view.


I do sympathize to some extent, as many clients do have completely unrealistic expectations. The problem is a company such as yours takes on multiple clients during a given period of time, and simply by random chance, at any point in time, some of those clients may be doing well, whilst others may be experiencing a draw-down.

When you start making arguments such as "not all of our customers lose money" whilst technically true, it isn't a particularly credible or ethical argument to make. There needs to be some overriding benchmark against which you can measure performance. The moment you start cherry picking particular bits of the product, or focusing on performance achieved by individual subscribers, you are on on really shaky ground, and you'll get called on it, particularly on whats supposed to be a trading forum.

I disagree given 14 days is the statutory right afforded by distance selling legislation, and is generally adopted by many other businesses.

By saying not all clients lose money was not meant as an argument or justification, but merely an attempt to put things in context. Unfortunately - as noted above - forums such as these have their fair share of cranks and others who feel aggrieved with someone or other; therefore balance, perspective and fact can often be lacking.

Some clients do have unrealistic expectations; some don't; while others are somewhere in between. Our raison d'etre is to look after the interests of the retail investor, which I believe we do very well. Unfortunately there are some who do not share this view - and often these people can be the most vocal.

 

[Fat boy]

My main issue with you is that your sales representative promised me a prorata refund if i did not like the service. I don't. But now you have reneged on this promise. I see i am not the only person to have encounterd this problem. You say you want to build long term relationships with clients... Trust and truthfulness in your sales process should surely have been the starting point for this. I want a divorce.

My other issue is with your use of tradenet for spreadbetting. Their system, apart from being not very successful, was totally unsuited to spreadbetting

I guess i could try the FSA

We corresponded yesterday regarding your complaint, which I am in the process of investigating. It is not right to claim we have "reneged" on our promise. I suggestb you refrain from making further accusations until after I've concluded my investigation. I think this is not unreasonable.

 

[the hare]

I disagree given 14 days is the statutory right afforded by distance selling legislation, and is generally adopted by many other businesses.

I did consider pointing out that 14 days was a probably a statutory right and that you where therefore only complying with the absolute minimum requirement under law, but I decided to be kind. If you had a belief in your product you'd extend that period, or at least offer pro-rata refunds.

I don't the frequency with which you issue recommendations, but one thing is for sure, and that 14 days simply isn't enough time to verify if those recommendations are usable. I'm not talking about if the calls are profitable or not, I'm talking about determining if a subscriber can achieve an average entry and exit price close enough to those being provided. That takes time, and it takes a reasonable sample size of trades from which to draw reasonable conclusions. There's a whole bunch of issues a subscriber might encounter over an extended period of time that might influence a request for a refund.

 

[pboyles]

We corresponded yesterday regarding your complaint, which I am in the process of investigating. It is not right to claim we have "reneged" on our promise. I suggestb you refrain from making further accusations until after I've concluded my investigation. I think this is not unreasonable.

I think you should just give him his money back. If the matter needs investigating then I suggest he posts his results here and we compare them to what you are claiming on your website.

 

[Hoggums]

My main issue with you is that your sales representative promised me a prorata refund if i did not like the service. I don't. But now you have reneged on this promise. I see i am not the only person to have encounterd this problem. You say you want to build long term relationships with clients... Trust and truthfulness in your sales process should surely have been the starting point for this. I want a divorce.

My other issue is with your use of tradenet for spreadbetting. Their system, apart from being not very successful, was totally unsuited to spreadbetting

I guess i could try the FSA

InkPot - you could try contacting Trading Standards here in the UK. If a company sells you an item or service based on a verbal promise - and your decision to purchase the product is based on that information then under UK consumer law you are entitled to a full refund for false representation. What is written in the contract has no bearing on this situation.

Trading Standards Institute - Home page

 

[Fat boy]

InkPot - you could try contacting Trading Standards here in the UK. If a company sells you an item or service based on a verbal promise - and your decision to purchase the product is based on that information then under UK consumer law you are entitled to a full refund for false representation. What is written in the contract has no bearing on this situation.

Trading Standards Institute - Home page

As pointed out above, this specific matter is currently under investigation and it is therefore premature and inappropriate to make any assumptions.

All our investigation are carried out in accordance with FSA and Financial Ombudsman Service guidelines.

 

[ryandj2222]

I posted a while back on this thread and since then I have purchased their 5 years all services for £1500. That includes:

UK Equities
EU mining
AuS equities
AUS mining
USA equities
Trading report

My thinking was that paying £300 a year with the amount I have to invest, then they would have to be pretty poor to not break even on the costs and would at least make some money just by chance.

I was actually initially more interested in the trading report initially but haven't been that impressed after following it for some months. There are winners and losers, probably slightly more winners overall I would guess. But they don't give very regular trade recommendations, maybe a couple a week, and I find that the risk/reward is not amazing, and is worsened by the fact that losers are almost always quietly left to run to stop losses and winners are quite often stopped early before the target with a message saying "Profits banked well done traders". I would say that most of the recommendations given are possible to purchase if you are available within that hour (I can put on trades on my phone as soon as texts received usually). They do show performance figures on their website and I agree with these more or less. But they just aren't amazing and certainly not worth the effort of putting on the trades, checking them etc. This page shows it:

Performance

I have read a lot of the AUS and USA equity reports but not bought any of them because buying these are a bit more expensive and because I have been following the UK and EU mining reports.

I have made money this year following them and the prices have been available in the market as recommended. They are all generally long term buy and hold until value levels reached, but my accounts have gone up. I think it works well for someone like me who regularly invests a few hundred a month into an ISA, SIPP and CTF. I use their current recommendations, of which there are usually at least half a dozen, to decide which ones to buy.

As there are so many recommendations, I have not managed to buy them all (I usually buy 3 different equities a month) and I wonder how many people actually have actually managed to mirror the full Fat Prophets portfolio, bearing in mind that the UK equities one consists of almost 80 companies, and the EU mining has over 50. Many of the companies come up again and again so there is a chance to buy them again at a later date (if strictly following the recommendations). No sell recommendations given on the ones I have bought as yet, but been getting good dividends none the less.

So I have been happy with the EU mining and UK equities, but pretty underwhelmed by the trading report.

 

[MrLeverage]

Interesting read.

 

[geewcee]

Don't go near these guys - customer service is great UNTIL you want a refund and then you are just forgotten about and ignored. After giving my written notice of cancellation and many subsequent phonecalls and emails (which get ignored) I am having to go to the trouble of arranging a chargeback on my credit card through my bank, which will take another 40 days to process. Fat Prophets just will not process it and fob you off with pathetic stories of bosses being in a different country. Unless you definately know you will stay with the service avoid taking the 'free' trial with these guys.

 

[madbrad]

I had a three year subscription with these guys and they are useless. Angus Geddes is the owner of Fat Prophets and you can check him out on youtube. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about but he and his team have the same hits and misses as the average guy off the street - really disappointing.

It took me 2 years to realize I was doing better without their advice.

 

[websie]

I wish I had read this before getting sucked into Fat Prophets. I am trying to get a refund. Their trade recommendations are rubbish, they move their Take Profits and end up with quite a few trades little more than scalping but they let their stop losses go on. Then they have the nerve to put them up as winners. How anyone can seriously offer trading recommendations that even their own company doesn't take for real is beyond me. They say they do 5 or more trade recs a week, no they don't you are lucky to get three and unless you know what you are doing you would be foolish to follow them blindly, even though I have only been trading a very short time even I can see when the trade is a loser and the risk ratio is also crap. Buyer Beware!

 

[Twistiez]

I've subscribed recently to Fat Prophets Australia. Early days so far but I've had some very good gains in some of the mining stocks they've recommended recently. It's obviously a more speculative sector but happy so far. The reports have great, detailed information and are a good read. Long may the recent successes continue

 

[madbrad]

I've subscribed recently to Fat Prophets Australia. Early days so far but I've had some very good gains in some of the mining stocks they've recommended recently. It's obviously a more speculative sector but happy so far. The reports have great, detailed information and are a good read. Long may the recent successes continue

Lucky you. Most of the mining 'buy' recommendations coming from Fat for the last few years have been dogs.

Just curious, which of the recommended stocks gave the 'very good gains' ?

 

[Twistiez]

Lucky you. Most of the mining 'buy' recommendations coming from Fat for the last few years have been dogs.

Just curious, which of the recommended stocks gave the 'very good gains' ?

I've got into BLY, CJO and RXL. Missed the boat on SCI which they recommended at 6c, but it was 7c by the time I saw it so I thought i'd missed out so didn't purchase - of course it's now at 10c

RXL was huge, wish I'd put more in. But of course with a small cap miner (so high risk) I only bought a small amount.

 

[madbrad]

You picked the only decent hits they've had.

You must be incredibly psychic. Hmmmm!