Sonicscooter
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Well, us old bones need a bit of winter sun to stop seizing up - not a lot of that about in Torquay
Try Cuba, found it cheaper than Spain for 2 weeks......
Europe's Liberation Started With Brexit
- Thread starter counter_violent
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Try Cuba, found it cheaper than Spain for 2 weeks......
Try Cuba, found it cheaper than Spain for 2 weeks......
Right. We don't want them here if they have no money. This is not a charitable organisation. Whatever next?
counter_violent
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Another falling out between those who live in the real world and the EU crats.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37347352
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37347352
Sonicscooter
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We know where Europe is heading CV, eventually others will see what is in store, those that don't will end up in a whole world of pain.
I do feel sorry for those refugees. If in their shoes I would probably be doing the same. The problem is they will never integrate and forever be in a silo community. Instead of opening the doors permanently. They should be housed temporarily until the underlying issue is resolved and then returned with assistance in building their home. It will probably be cheaper in the long run and we would end up with a better relationship in the long run. My 2 cents of the refugee issue.
I think we should be recognising this for what it is, a migrant issue, not a refugee issue.
Syria has seen 400k - 470k people killed since the start of the civil war in 2011. Refugees in Turkey (2.5 million of them) are living in tents and makeshift squatter camps like this
have you ever been in a squatter camp? i have and i can tell you it isn't an easy life and its a heck of a lot worse over there. According to the UN it will take 5 billion pounds to meet the basic needs of vulnerable Syrians in 2016. Camps have chronic malnutrition problems, boys, girls, and women are raped (Lots of reports on this), sanitation issues, exposed to brutal weather.
Would you live like that? i wouldn't and these people are so desperate that they risk their lives (children included) in hope of a something better. I can't imagine how desperate i would need to be to risk my 4 year old daughter's life. This is not a migrant issue. There are economic migrants in these but they are definitely a minority.
The Syrian refugees need more help, I'm sure everyone would like to help them. But permanent re-settlement in the EU makes no sense. It would be just as helpful if we re-located them to Hawaii. How could it be right for all non-combatants in any conflict in the world all claim the right to settle in Honolulu? Or any country of their choice?
Entry into the EU by other nationalities should be treated as what it is, immigration. The fact that thousands from the Middle East and Africa are trying it in large groups rather than the odd one or two stow-aways doesn't change their situation and shouldn't change our response.
Entry into the EU by other nationalities should be treated as what it is, immigration. The fact that thousands from the Middle East and Africa are trying it in large groups rather than the odd one or two stow-aways doesn't change their situation and shouldn't change our response.
I never suggested permanent residence but that doesn't get around the fact that these people are desperate, something you can't seem to relate with.
Let's take a step back. A refugee camp is found to be insanitary. What is the answer to the problem of insanitary conditions in this refugee camp? Likewise if found to be crime-ridden, lacking shelter, short of food. What is the answer to crime, shortage of shelter, shortage of food? I'm sure we'd all be moved to help in solving these problems.
I just think we should recognise the problem. A refugee is someone who flees conflict, persecution or violence in order to stay alive. They might flee into a neighbouring town, province or country. But someone fleeing from where there is no conflict is not a refugee, they're a migrant.
timsk
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I have to side with Tom on this issue. I'm a compassionate person who cares about the plight of genuine refugees fleeing war torn places like Syria. I believe we must do everything in our power to assist them. However, when they reach the shores of mainland Europe then, all other things being equal, their lives are no longer in danger. At that point, they need to be assessed to determine what they want to do and how best to help them. Some of them will want to come to the U.K. and it's right IMO that we should take our fair share. However, camps like the one in Calais make no sense to me. Sure, some of the people there will have legitimate reasons for wanting to come to the U.K. - e.g. they want to join members of their family who are living here already. That's understandable enough. But, the majority want to come here merely because they perceive a better life for themselves than if they were to remain in France, Greece, Italy or wherever they were before that. These people need to be treated like any other migrant, and only allowed to reside permanently in the U.K. if they meet specific criteria. That they prefer to live in the U.K. rather than in France (or wherever) - as a stand alone reason to come here - just doesn't cut it.
Tim.
So by that logic; as long as I am not being shot at I should accept living for years in conditions that's unacceptable and is associated with elevated risks of rape, health issues through malnutrition, exposure to extreme temperatures without sufficient protection, disease, vulnerable to human trafficking, vulnerable to attacks, ... the list goes on. In addition, I should accept putting my children through this. What planet are you living on?
The problem with people such as yourself with these views is you have never experienced extreme poverty. You have never been inside a squatters camp and seen first hand the conditions in which these people live. So understanding their perspective is nothing more than an assumption and prejudice off that assumption.
Just so I am clear on this and not talking out of my @ss. I spent 24 hours in this very camp 5 years after apartheid ended (250k people living like this in this single camp of many in South Africa ). Syrian refugees at least get tents in some instances. My point is until you experience it you really can't judge peoples need to get away from it.
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timsk
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forker,
With respect, these two post are complete non sequiturs - assuming they are in response to mine. It's a nonsensical argument, akin to me saying that by your logic we should allow anyone and everyone from anywhere in the world to come and live here in the U.K. and provide all of them with housing, food and healthcare etc.
So, as Tom says, lets take a step back and take out the 'What planet are you living on?' type remarks - pretty please! All I am saying - and I think Tom is saying too - is that we need to distinguish between migrants who want to live somewhere other than their native country for a whole host of reasons (some legitimate and some not) and genuine refugees who are forced to flee from their native country because their lives are in danger. There's a big difference between the two groups - that's the key point here.
Tim.
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There is no argument regarding the majority of people arriving on eu shores from Syria. They are not coming because they don't like Syria anymore. They are risking their lives because the conditions they are forced to live in is unacceptable, surely you can see that. Again I should point out that I don't support permanently accepting them but that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye. The west is responsible for this mess and the west should be responsible for the consequences. Your argument of reflecting these people against the ones that trying to sneak in for economic reasons is flawed.