EU Referendum

[postman]

Shouln't WE do what we've always done and Lead the way by setting a good example to others.

Why do you think people want to live in the UK, it isnt for the weather, its so they can go where they want without paying a bribe for a permission slip, that can say what they want without fear of imprisonment or torture.

What we have is a system of slavery still, not based on colour but on money, 'Economic slavery', "they cant come to 'our' country because they are too poor". Substitute the word 'poor' for 'Black' and see how well that argument flies.

Chose to be human, not an animal.

 

[Signalcalc]

Shouln't WE do what we've always done and Lead the way by setting a good example to others.

Yes by leaving an undemocratic institution such as the EU. [emoji1]

 

[postman]

Yes by leaving an undemocratic institution such as the EU. [emoji1]

 

[mike.]

Well, I for one have made up my mind by doing my own research into what I believe is fact or scaremongering...nothing will change my mind now and I believe most of you are the same...

I do believe imigration is a problem, only to get worse.

I do believe after a short downturn the economy will thrive.

I don't believe workers rights will suffer.

And on that bombshell....I'm out.

Feel free to argue away, but it's all just speculation what will, might or won't happen...

 

[counter_violent]

Because Jon the points are the same old one line points made year after year, decade after decade, but still the same group of naive members of society are blinkered to where this is all heading, i would recommend an education along a different avenue may make for some enlightenment. I truly dispare at this blind folly.

The true destruction of oneself, by oneself.

All this immigration still doesn't affect the majority of the indigenous population, this is why they can be so cavalier in their attitude (masqueraded as fairness). They would soon change their minds if they lived amongst it, had to compete with it and it started to affect them in adverse ways.

 

[tokyojoe]

one for the remain camp "shady cockney"

 

[Sonicscooter]

All this immigration still doesn't affect the majority of the indigenous population, this is why they can be so cavalier in their attitude (masqueraded as fairness). They would soon change their minds if they lived amongst it, had to compete with it and it started to affect them in adverse ways.

Correct, after 30 years working in it, and seeing the effects on working class families, those with a naive world view only deserve my utter contempt.

 

[barjon]

All this immigration still doesn't affect the majority of the indigenous population, this is why they can be so cavalier in their attitude (masqueraded as fairness). They would soon change their minds if they lived amongst it, had to compete with it and it started to affect them in adverse ways.

Yes, there's no doubt that immigration at current levels is unsustainable in that it puts far to much pressure on existing infrastructure and services.

So far as EU workers coming here are concerned I expect many will return to their own neck of the woods when things improve there and most make a good contribution whilst they are here. So far as othe immigration is concerned people kill themselves (literally) trying to get here and I doubt that whether we are in the EU or not will make any difference to their efforts. Probably, though, we'd be left to our own devices in controlling it and couldn't expect any help from elsewhere (France at Calais for example).

People from the poorer parts of UK have migrated to the south east for years and the best solution is to make the whole country prosperous so that they can work and enjoy life where they want. Same goes for the EU.

 

[postman]

The Germans have done exceedingly well even after the mass migration of East Germans!

We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

[counter_violent]

Yes, there's no doubt that immigration at current levels is unsustainable in that it puts far to much pressure on existing infrastructure and services.

This is why a line has to be drawn under the issue and the only way to draw that line is by leaving the EU. A fresh start can then take place.

So far as EU workers coming here are concerned I expect many will return to their own neck of the woods when things improve there and most make a good contribution whilst they are here. So far as othe immigration is concerned people kill themselves (literally) trying to get here and I doubt that whether we are in the EU or not will make any difference to their efforts. Probably, though, we'd be left to our own devices in controlling it and couldn't expect any help from elsewhere (France at Calais for example).

This idea that if we leave we will not get cooperation from other countries on any number of issues, is just plain wrong. Globalisation is all about cooperation to everyone's mutual benefit. Europe and the EU does not have a global vision and it cannot be in our interests to be part of this closed minded, inward looking group.

People from the poorer parts of UK have migrated to the south east for years and the best solution is to make the whole country prosperous so that they can work and enjoy life where they want. Same goes for the EU.

Only applies to those who could afford to move and had sufficient education / wherewithal to take the plunge.
The rest have had to put up with all kinds of nonsense. Uncontrolled immigration, ghettoisation, minimum wage relative poverty, cultural mismatching (not integration) leading to issues like Asian grooming gangs.
Nobody really talks about what is going on, it's not PC see.

Well, we are talking about it now aren't we!

The Labour party position in all this is disgusting. These are the people who are supposed to look out for the less well off and yet their position is to continue with uncontrolled immigration, a race to the bottom where more and more people get dragged down.
Big business, large corp is the same. They love all this cheap labour and everyone knowing their place in life.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Only applies to those who could afford to move and had sufficient education / wherewithal to take the plunge.
The rest have had to put up with all kinds of nonsense. Uncontrolled immigration, ghettoisation, minimum wage relative poverty, cultural mismatching (not integration) leading to issues like Asian grooming gangs.
Nobody really talks about what is going on, it's not PC see.

Well, we are talking about it now aren't we!

The Labour party position in all this is disgusting. These are the people who are supposed to look out for the less well off and yet their position is to continue with uncontrolled immigration, a race to the bottom where more and more people get dragged down.
Big business, large corp is the same. They love all this cheap labour and everyone knowing their place in life.

Society, the elite, government, business, the system, call it what you like, doesn't want taxes spent on educating some working class smelly kids when they can import adults to do menial jobs for minimum wage..........Children are a large expense, all that unnecessary investment......Today, their isn't anyone supporting the poor in this country or the West in general.

 

[barjon]

Only applies to those who could afford to move and had sufficient education / wherewithal to take the plunge.
The rest have had to put up with all kinds of nonsense. Uncontrolled immigration, ghettoisation, minimum wage relative poverty, cultural mismatching (not integration) leading to issues like Asian grooming gangs.
Nobody really talks about what is going on, it's not PC see.

Well, we are talking about it now aren't we!

The Labour party position in all this is disgusting. These are the people who are supposed to look out for the less well off and yet their position is to continue with uncontrolled immigration, a race to the bottom where more and more people get dragged down.
Big business, large corp is the same. They love all this cheap labour and everyone knowing their place in life.

The main problem with immigration is not EU workers who have generally come to fills holes left by the indigigenous population, albeit that some of them are benefit scroungers ( as are some of he indigenous population). As I said ,many of those workers will return to their own countries in due course. It is the refugee type immigration from outside the EU where people have come for a better life and these will still make the effort to get here regardless of "in" or "out". Same goes for ex-colonial countries and your Asian grooming gangs.

I expect we could get other countries to help but it would require a fresh commitment, but why pick on that aside of mine to quarrel about instead of the main point?

You cannot lay all these problems at the door of the EU although it clearly suits you to do so.

 

[barjon]

Society, the elite, government, business, the system, call it what you like, doesn't want taxes spent on educating some working class smelly kids when they can import adults to do menial jobs for minimum wage..........Children are a large expense, all that unnecessary investment......Today, their isn't anyone supporting the poor in this country or the West in general.

You clearly have a dim view of government and their efforts to govern the country. If you really believe what you have said then you must have been living in a different country than me

 

[counter_violent]

The main problem with immigration is not EU workers who have generally come to fills holes left by the indigigenous population, albeit that some of them are benefit scroungers ( as are some of he indigenous population). As I said ,many of those workers will return to their own countries in due course. It is the refugee type immigration from outside the EU where people have come for a better life and these will still make the effort to get here regardless of "in" or "out". Same goes for ex-colonial countries and your Asian grooming gangs.

I expect we could get other countries to help but it would require a fresh commitment, but why pick on that aside of mine to quarrel about instead of the main point?

You cannot lay all these problems at the door of the EU although it clearly suits you to do so.

Free movement of people within the EU means there is no control. None, Nada, Zilch.

Because the UK has some idea of how to organise, govern and do business, then this makes it an attractive place for others to come and take advantage. Nobody is blaming them for wanting to better themselves. But there is no control in all this. In order to remain successful, we need to keep order and control.
I don't know how to say it any other way. The EU has no control of it's borders. This is a fact.
If we stay in, then by association, we have no control over who comes here.

 

[Sonicscooter]

You clearly have a dim view of government and their efforts to govern the country. If you really believe what you have said then you must have been living in a different country than me

Or maybe my experiences in life and what i have seen regarding the poorer areas of this country are different to yours.

 

[tokyojoe]

You clearly have a dim view of government and their efforts to govern the country. If you really believe what you have said then you must have been living in a different country than me

Actually he has a more enlightened rather than "dim" (as you put it) view.

If our eyes have been wide open for the past 15 years, then we may not be so dismissive.

 

[barjon]

Free movement of people within the EU means there is no control. None, Nada, Zilch.

Because the UK has some idea of how to organise, govern and do business, then this makes it an attractive place for others to come and take advantage. Nobody is blaming them for wanting to better themselves. But there is no control in all this. In order to remain successful, we need to keep order and control.
I don't know how to say it any other way. The EU has no control of it's borders. This is a fact.
If we stay in, then by association, we have no control over who comes here.

Only for EU citizens are there no controls. If you can convince me that EU citizens are the main problem then you've got a point. But what of those who are not EU citizens?

 

[counter_violent]

Only for EU citizens are there no controls. If you can convince me that EU citizens are the main problem then you've got a point. But what of those who are not EU citizens?

Well if you accept that the EU has no control over it's borders, which it obviously hasn't, otherwise we would not have camps set up over in France and numerous other places within the EU. Now those in the camps are the visible ones. What about all the invisible ones adding to the mix.

You know as well as I do that if all this chaos is left unchecked, we are only a short hop away from the people rising up. From there we are only another short hop from total disorder.

Actually, France is a classic example playing out in front of our eyes. The rise and rise of Le Pen and make no mistake, she has the support of the people. The majority of their anger is for the establishment politicians and elites.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-le-pen-front-national-france-cowardly-elite

 

[Sonicscooter]

Absolutely agree, back to the pendulum theory.......well, more a practical series of events.....

 

[OLdNoob]

Well if you accept that the EU has no control over it's borders, which it obviously hasn't, otherwise we would not have camps set up over in France and numerous other places within the EU. Now those in the camps are the visible ones. What about all the invisible ones adding to the mix.

You know as well as I do that if all this chaos is left unchecked, we are only a short hop away from the people rising up. From there we are only another short hop from total disorder.

Actually, France is a classic example playing out in front of our eyes. The rise and rise of Le Pen and make no mistake, she has the support of the people. The majority of their anger is for the establishment politicians and elites.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-le-pen-front-national-france-cowardly-elite

From that link but applied to the brexit camp

brexit has no solution for the UK's problems, brexits economic programme is all about retreating from the outside world and Europe. brexits social vision is of a mythical, homogeneous UK that never existed. What Brexit has to sell is an illusion. It’s only because so little else is on offer that people are buying