Ego or Lack of?

[Joe Ross]

When you get an easy winner do you feel guilty?* Do you ask yourself, "Do I deserve to win?"* Do I?

The world's most successful traders believe in themselves and their ability to win. In fact, many of them feel that they "own" the market. They are not necessarily being* arrogant, but they are sure of themselves and sure that they are able to take profits out of the market. Most important is that they believe that they deserve to win. They have a mind-set that is conducive to winning as a trader. It's essential that you make sure you, too, have such a mind set.

Do you find yourself acting as if you don't deserve to win?* Do you waiver between two opinions, declaring that you know how to take big gains out of the market one day, and doubting whether you can really do the same the next day?

Do you often make gains, and then give them back, plus a little more sometimes? How about a lot more?*

Deep down inside, you may be suffering from the "work ethic." You may not believe making money easily is honest work.* Is it possible that this belief interferes with your making easy money without a lot of guilt?

There is a powerful human need to hang onto tradition. Everyone in your family worked hard, so you must work hard.* Have you considered that working smart might be a better way to go?* When we stray from certain social mores and traditions, we feel confused and uneasy. Therefore, it's essential that we learn who we really are and identify which beliefs we hold that prevent us from working smart and not hard.* We need a mind-set that is conducive to trading.

Think for a few minutes as to how you feel about the profits you make.* Do you believe you deserve wealth?* Do you believe you are justified in accumulating more capital than you currently have? Do you believe that by winning you are taking money away from others? Such beliefs are not consistent with trading success, so if you hold such beliefs, you are going to have to get rid of them in order to be a successful trader.

Money is a means of exchange that provides us with circumstances and experiences we could not otherwise have. There is plenty for everyone. Let's face it, the government can (and will) always print more.* When we acquire wealth, we are able to support our loved ones, others, and ourselves more fully. We can be an asset to family and society.

If it is a religious belief that keeps you from making money, then read these words: "...I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." Third John, Chapter 1, verse 2.
Read this one as well: "He who has a slack hand becomes poor, but the hand of the diligent makes him rich." Proverbs Chapter 10, verse 4.

 

[Black Swan]

Joe I like this article, there is a strong 'protestant' (in the true meaning of the word) work ethic in many of us. I often used to think "Is this it, we just click a mosue a few times and make a bit of dough?" But heh, once you de-mystify the whole discipline/job you quickly realise it's only how the rest of financial world revolves and those at the very top don't even do that, they're paid enormous sums for simply posturing, as you rightly point out banks, aided by governments, simply create more of it out of fresh air anyhow....

So you do deserve it and IMO it's your given right to attempt to fill your pockets with as much of it as possible and in that respect it's as viable and ethical a business as you coud possibly hope to discover....no waste of energy, no one gets 'hurt'....(other than the guy on the other side of the bet)

 

[shadowninja]

Interesting. Do you deserve it? Can you say that you honestly deserve it? Do you honestly deserve anything good? Or do you believe that you will never amount to anything and that you should keep that little secret your uncle asked you to keep when you were 8? Or do you believe that you are the loser four eyed speccy twit who always got chosen last in football so don't deserve anything more than your 9 to 5 accounts clerk job?

In my "other life", I have dealt with many clients who don't really accept who they are or truly respect themselves. They are tied down by a lack of self-worth brought on by what their parents said or how their parents behaved or what someone they trusted did to them or how their peer group treated them. The choices they make in life always end up bad as if they are punishing themselves on purpose.

 

[Splitlink]

I don't mix religion with the making of money. It seems a very American culture to thank God for everything that has happened to them since the Pilgrim fathers got there and Thanksgiving started. The habit seems to have spread to other countries but my religion doubts that. Otherwise, He would be rewarding every believer who asks him for help. How can we ask Him to make us rich when there are so many penniless and starving people in the Third World? No, God has His mind on other things.

How many of us have the intention of sending our profits to the poor in Africa? Frankly, that is not in my mind and I don't think that I am alone.

 

[donaldduke]

I dont know anyone who finds trading easy.

It requires a strong work ethic. Sure you get periods when it seems easy because you hit a long winning streak. But all profitable traders know there will be periods of losing too.

It might not be physically hard work but mentally over the long haul it is very hard work.

 

[£10kLoser]

When you get an easy winner do you feel guilty?* Do you ask yourself, "Do I deserve to win?"* Do I?

Do you find yourself acting as if you don't deserve to win?* Do you waiver between two opinions, declaring that you know how to take big gains out of the market one day, and doubting whether you can really do the same the next day?

Deep down inside, you may be suffering from the "work ethic." You may not believe making money easily is honest work.* Is it possible that this belief interferes with your making easy money without a lot of guilt?

I fully agree with this but it doesn't answer the question of what to do about it. Knowing it is unlikely to help much because the problem comes from within our subconscious and so controls us however hard we think against it. Our subconscious will always beat our conscious mind in the end.

Successful traders often say that it took many years of learning the skills of trading and developing 'discipline' when they are unaware that the many years effort eventually resulted in a change in their subconscious attitude - enabling them to become profitable traders.

We need a shortcut to this change...

 

[barjon]

...............We need a shortcut to this change..............

Isn't your plan your shortcut? Neither the market nor your plan know about your subconscious so just trade it with the rules you have laid down. If your subconscious, or whatever, affects your discipline to do that then use resting orders.

good trading

jon

 

[£10kLoser]

If people could stick to their plan, there wouldn't be a problem but quite clearly, people can't.

The reason that they can't is that the subconscious overrules the conscious mind. Resting orders can be changed, for example. Your 'plan' solution is rather like the smoker planning to stop smoking. Easy, eh?

 

[barjon]

If people could stick to their plan, there wouldn't be a problem but quite clearly, people can't.

The reason that they can't is that the subconscious overrules the conscious mind. Resting orders can be changed, for example. Your 'plan' solution is rather like the smoker planning to stop smoking. Easy, eh?

how'd you know i'm still puffing my pipe

well put the orders in and turn off then - your subconscious can't interfere with that

good trading

jon

 

[shadowninja]

We need a shortcut to this change...

The shortcut, I suppose, would be getting therapy for any underlying issues, rather than blindly hoping that you will eventually stick to your trading plan.

 

[shadowninja]

Thanks. Looks like you can just give a fake email.

 

[theSheik]

If people could stick to their plan, there wouldn't be a problem but quite clearly, people can't.

The reason that they can't is that the subconscious overrules the conscious mind. Resting orders can be changed, for example. Your 'plan' solution is rather like the smoker planning to stop smoking. Easy, eh?

I used to smoke a pack or two of cigarettes a day for over 10 years and stopped without meds or a program - just quit one day and that day was over six years ago - never restarted or even thought about it since...

also, your statement that subconscious overrules the conscious mind (or that it wins out in the end) is, with all due respect, utter nonsense.

:smart:

 

[£10kLoser]

I used to smoke a pack or two of cigarettes a day for over 10 years and stopped without meds or a program - just quit one day and that day was over six years ago - never restarted or even thought about it since...

also, your statement that subconscious overrules the conscious mind (or that it wins out in the end) is, with all due respect, utter nonsense.

:smart:

One example means nothing, so I don't know what you are trying to say. It's clear that millions can't just quit. It's also clear that most people lose at trading despite the efforts of their conscious mind.

On what evidence do you base your statement that 'subconscious overrules the conscious mind' is utter nonsense? Give examples. I would also like to know how you can determine what comes from the subconscious since it is by definition, unknown.

Anybody can make statements contradicting somebody else but you should give a reason and a clear argument why you disagree - otherwise nobody will take you seriously.

 

[shadowninja]

Indeed. I have dealt with many cases where subconscious programming affects the conscious choices people make.

 

[shadowninja]

Why was that video removed? It was relevant to the discussion. I was going to reply having had a good think about what the presenter was saying!

 

[theSheik]

On what evidence do you base your statement that 'subconscious overrules the conscious mind' is utter nonsense? Give examples. I would also like to know how you can determine what comes from the subconscious since it is by definition, unknown.

Precisely, I couldn't agree more...

read that last sentence and then apply to your "subconscious overrules the conscious" statement?

e.g. utter nonsense

 

[£10kLoser]

Precisely, I couldn't agree more...

read that last sentence and then apply to your "subconscious overrules the conscious" statement?

e.g. utter nonsense

The subconscious is unknown to the person himself or herself, but there are techniques to reveal it and demonstrate the effect it has. This is the whole basic of psychoanalysis. To glibly say that it is utter nonsense is ignorant to say the least. Hypnosis can access the subconscious for example and suggestions can be implanted that demonstrably overrule the conscious mind.

Having worked as a specialist in clinical hypnosis precisely to uncover the harmful effects of the subconscious I could give you dozens of real life examples. Trading is one area where it is easy to see that everyone gets out of the markets what they subconsciously expect.

You are treading dangerously close to being argumentative just for the sake of provocation. I would suggest you stay out of the psychology section unless you have something constructive to say.

 

[Black Swan]

I fully agree with this but it doesn't answer the question of what to do about it. Knowing it is unlikely to help much because the problem comes from within our subconscious and so controls us however hard we think against it. Our subconscious will always beat our conscious mind in the end.

Successful traders often say that it took many years of learning the skills of trading and developing 'discipline' when they are unaware that the many years effort eventually resulted in a change in their subconscious attitude - enabling them to become profitable traders.
We need a shortcut to this change...

good comment...

 

[Black Swan]

Interesting. Do you deserve it? Can you say that you honestly deserve it? Do you honestly deserve anything good? Or do you believe that you will never amount to anything and that you should keep that little secret your uncle asked you to keep when you were 8? Or do you believe that you are the loser four eyed speccy twit who always got chosen last in football so don't deserve anything more than your 9 to 5 accounts clerk job?

In my "other life", I have dealt with many clients who don't really accept who they are or truly respect themselves. They are tied down by a lack of self-worth brought on by what their parents said or how their parents behaved or what someone they trusted did to them or how their peer group treated them. The choices they make in life always end up bad as if they are punishing themselves on purpose.

there was a thread a while back asking whether a fear of success is holding you back which has a similar theme to your post....

 

[shadowninja]

there was a thread a while back asking whether a fear of success is holding you back which has a similar theme to your post....

That thread rings a bell. It's certainly true and one aspect that sometimes needs to be address ("if I am successful, people will dislike me", "if I am successful, I will have to pay my parents rent money for the room", "if I am successful, I will have to move out", "if I am successful, I will be doing a dishonest job" etc).