Does anyone here actually make money trading?

[new_trader]

I've been registered here for quite some time. I thought I'd learn something useful here but it seems to be little more than load of people talking about new systems they've invented, or bought, which they reckon they'll clean-up with, and other people who can program the charting software backtesting said systems only to conclude that they don't work or that they do, but suffer too much drawdown to be worth the effort.

I Agree

I am yet to find a discussion here that doesn't appear to contain lot of dead horses and a lot of 'would-be' traders flogging said horses with near-mechanical determination. I'm deeply sceptical about the credability of forums like this for one simple reason. If I had methods capable of generating reliable returns I wouldn't be on an internet forum chatting about it, I'd be sat on a big yacht in the Bahamas, making millions on my laptop, and sipping Champagne while toned 18 yr old babes in bikinis rubbed oil into me... and each other.

Very good point.

The longer I try to make money trading the more deeply suspicious I become that actually, the only ones who do are those who are inside some special bubble where exists knowledge that will never be allowed out of said bubble, and those on the outisde will never be let in. There are people out there who make millions trading and they must have learned to do it somewhere, but where... and does anyone here actually make a living from trading... and if so, how?

Yes, and why should they be? Trading isn't a charity...although you can trade for charity, if you know how

 

[nine]

Knowing how to trade doesn't make one a trader so giving away a method isn't a huge problem. I've pointed more than a few at my method and I've seen complete strategies developed here and at et. And I bet very few succeeded in making them theirs.

So chatting is fine. And helping is fine. It doesn't damage the game, it helps newbies come in and although most won't become traders some will. Both groups are good for the game.


Edit: Note for Newtrader's post below. It seems likely that he's in the category who will donate but never become effective traders. I wish him well, whichever path he pursues of course.

 

[PKFFW]

Very good point.

Your guru was on here quite alot proclaiming his expertise and you did not raise this very good point with him.

Yes, and why should they be? Trading isn't a charity...although you can trade for charity, if you know how

Maybe others wont be "let in" but as there is no secret organisation with some sort of gatekeeper(your guru's protestations notwithstanding) to let people into that doesn't really matter. Anyone who has the will and dedication can work it out though and force their way into that select group who make money from trading. If they could not then after one generation of the markets there would be no one ever making any money again because no one made it in on the secret of how to trade.

That is not to say you can't join any secret group with a gatekeeper if you so desire. 400 pound and you're in.......doesn't mean you will make money trading though.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[new_trader]

Maybe the secret bubble people can show me how to make 1 or 2 points trading the ES I read in a book somewhere that this might be possible..! AND it was an expensive book (not a cheap one) with some coloured pictures on the cover!

 

[MitchT]

Perhaps forex is something for you. You don't want to leave your current job taking a dip in the big unknown, which is fine. Trading forex can be done 24 hours, using daily or hourly bars only requires you to watch the markets now and then. Or you could trade EOD, just watching the close and waiting for a signal. Whatever you do, it will require lots & lots of patience and discipline.

I do want to leave my job, I just can't afford to... but yes, Forex definitely.

(1) determine what you want out of trading: trade for hobby, a living,...

What I want can be identified in three stages, though you might be able to insert more.

1: A consistently profitable method which I can trade on an evening due to the day job.
2: My needs fulfilled: The ability to quit my day job and earn enough to live on from trading.
3: My wants fulfilled: The ability to make enough trading to have things I want as opposed to merely the things I need.

In nutshell, I want financial independence and an end to wage-slavery, to be achieved by doing something which is 'portable', ie, something I can do anywhere in the world where there is internet access. That way I can move somewhere with a warmer, sunnier climate where living costs are lower.

And that may be your problem. Retitle your thread "Does anyone here actually make money spreadbetting?" and you may get closer to finding an answer to your quandary. That plus noting the "betting" part of spreadbetting.

I avoided using the word 'spreadbetting' because I didn't want to appear as a gambler. I am not. I am very disciplined, very analytical and able to detach myself emotionally from the market. I choose spread betting at the moment because it's tax-efficient and simple. In theory there's no reason why it shouldn't work like trading if the decision to place bets comes from the same theory and risk is managed in the same way.

But if you insist on pedaling uphill, that's your choice, not the essential nature of trading itself.

Have I implied anywhere that I insist on pedalling uphill? If I appear to have done so, please explain where. I have no desire to pedal uphill, only to make money from trading.

Finally, my reference to big yachts and babes seems to have been misinterpreted... What I was trying to do was illustrate a life in which someone has choice and is a slave to noone. If the details don't suit you feel free to substitute them with your own personal desires - I just chose something that was 'obvious' if not to everyone's own personal taste.

 

[the blades]

Mitch,

Just a thought - but you "definitely" want to trade Forex?

My thoughts on this - you have a few pairs to choose from, which are traded by hundreds of thoudands of traders using discretionary and mechanical models. Consider what you will have that will outperform all these people? Have a look at Forex systems on colective 2 - many good ones that all seem to blow up after several months.

Why not consider US stocks? Can be traded EOD, so you can still work. Lots of volatility to play with and probably more inefficiencies to explore.

UTB

 

[shadowninja]

Ok, you appear to have a method that can make you money and you claim to be disciplined; what caused you to lose money in the last 5 losing trades, then? Misread signal? Platform failure?

-SN

PS nowt wrong with financial spreadbetting; it's no worse than trading with actual currency or stock; it is just a much cheaper entry into the market.

 

[bbmac]

MichT: You will find it dificult to achieve your ambition without a full time commitment to learning trading, but that is not to say it can't be done (trader_dante springs to mind, but he's been at it 8 years part time or something like that.)

Making a full time comitment of course has consequences like the loss of income from giving up your job, and probably blowing some savings in the learning process but it is the route that many people took , aware of the consequences, and it either worked for them or not.

As for experienced/profitable traders not wasting their time on internet forums, well it's a good thing they do. The biggest obstacle in my trading is boredom, so having a comminity is useful to fill in the time between signals. it's not perfect but better than nothing....and the ones that get the most out of such a place are always those that give to receive, not just take.

 

[PKFFW]

Maybe the secret bubble people can show me how to make 1 or 2 points trading the ES I read in a book somewhere that this might be possible..! AND it was an expensive book (not a cheap one) with some coloured pictures on the cover!

Or maybe I can spend my days desperately seeking validation from annonymous names on a bulletin board. To get this validation I will even pony up 400 pound to some annonymous name on a bulletin board who supposedly couldn't possibly be a profitable trader if he spends his time posting on bulletion boards to begin with. But it's worth it because he validates me and makes me feel as if I am part of an elite group and that strokes my ego and makes me feel good.

Then again, maybe I could try being honest in where I'm at, asking for guidence when needed, not being ashamed to admit I'm still searching, then listening and considering the answers I get.........in this way I may actually progress in my struggle for trading success.

Nah, that's too much trouble so I'll go back to seeking validation from annonymous names on a bulletin board because it's so much easier and more fun and strokes my ego and makes me feel good. In the mean time I'll just spout out nonsense to myself and all who will listen about my supposed trading mastery. Maybe if I repeat it enough times I might even begin to believe it myself!

Yeah that's the way for me!

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

In terms of the motivation for successful traders posting on internet sites, I guess different people get different things out of it. If you haven't done it yet Mitch, don't underestimate the solitary nature of trading independently, or the complete lack of understanding (and hence the likelihood of a sensible discussion) about what you do from immediate friends and family: a forum like this provides an opportunity to let off a bit of steam with people who do understand the business, the quid pro quo being that you occasionally help beginners out with their questions. Nothing more odd or sinister to it than that - although I agree that the anonymity of something like this brings out a predictable share of loonies and dreamers.

 

[the blades]

In terms of the motivation for successful traders posting on internet sites, I guess different people get different things out of it. If you haven't done it yet Mitch, don't underestimate the solitary nature of trading independently, or the complete lack of understanding (and hence the likelihood of a sensible discussion) about what you do from immediate friends and family: a forum like this provides an opportunity to let off a bit of steam with people who do understand the business, the quid pro quo being that you occasionally help beginners out with their questions. Nothing more odd or sinister to it than that - although I agree that the anonymity of something like this brings out a predictable share of loonies and dreamers.

Exactly Jack - well said.

UTB

 

[new_trader]

Knowing how to trade doesn't make one a trader so giving away a method isn't a huge problem. I've pointed more than a few at my method and I've seen complete strategies developed here and at et. And I bet very few succeeded in making them theirs.

So chatting is fine. And helping is fine. It doesn't damage the game, it helps newbies come in and although most won't become traders some will. Both groups are good for the game.


Edit: Note for Newtrader's post below. It seems likely that he's in the category who will donate but never become effective traders. I wish him well, whichever path he pursues of course.

Nine,

What is patently obvious on this site is that 99.999% of the members have joined because they feel that they are entitled to lessons in trading. When these people are not given what they demand they become hostile and argue at any given opportunity, on any trading matter even though they openly confess that they haven’t attained the success in trading that they hoped..etc..etc....go figure..! Must be because they are always 'talking' when they ought to be 'listening'. This is why, as explained in another thread, most of the wisest, most experienced and knowledgable traders have left this forum. Good luck Mitch...

 

[PKFFW]

Nine,

What is patently obvious on this site is that 99.999% of the members have joined because they feel that they are entitled to lessons in trading. When these people are not given what they demand they become hostile and argue at any given opportunity, on any trading matter even though they openly confess that they haven’t attained the success in trading that they hoped..etc..etc....go figure..! Must be because they are always 'talking' when they ought to be 'listening'. This is why, as explained in another thread, most of the wisest, most experienced and knowledgable traders have left this forum. Good luck Mitch...

So you have looked in a mirror lately........good for you, an honest evaluation of yourself is the first step to changing.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[the blades]

they demand they become hostile and argue at any given opportunity,

So you have looked in a mirror lately........good for you, an honest evaluation of yourself is the first step to changing.

.......proof that there are no mirrors in Socrates' pocket.

UTB

 

[FXSCALPER2]

Nine,

What is patently obvious on this site is that 99.999% of the members have joined because they feel that they are entitled to lessons in trading. When these people are not given what they demand they become hostile and argue at any given opportunity, on any trading matter even though they openly confess that they haven’t attained the success in trading that they hoped..etc..etc....go figure..! Must be because they are always 'talking' when they ought to be 'listening'. This is why, as explained in another thread, most of the wisest, most experienced and knowledgable traders have left this forum. Good luck Mitch...

You are too bitter, buddy. You say others are here to be told how to trade. Why are you here? It makes no sense for you to stay here. Personally, I like coming here and reading and posting. What is the alternative when you are staying at home like I do? In most cases, I am going to read other rubbish on the net anyway. What matters to me is there is a civilised and decent interaction between people. It is completely irrelevant to me whether one is a genius at trading or just a struggling novice. I don't judge a person by how well they do in their business selling shoes, say. See what I mean? Such a level of obsession as yours in trying to guage people's worth from what you see here is indicative of psychological issues on your part. If all this is not to your taste, leave.

You may be the best trader since Livermore. Having good manners and not berating people all the time is much more valuable to others than whether you make money in this ephemeral life or not. That is, after all, your business and good for you.

Mods: notice what happened to moneytec. Basically it is dead. Try and make sure this good forum doesn't go the same way. While mud slinging sells in the short term, it seems self-defeating eventually.

All the best.

 

[Profitaker]

This is why, as explained in another thread, most of the wisest, most experienced and knowledgable traders have left this forum. Good luck Mitch...

Not to my knowledge they haven't, they're still here.

Can we get back on topic please ?

 

[trader_dante]

One lesson I learnt early on is that when someone can't do something themselves, they will tell you that you can't do it.

After all, ultimately, our belief systems are largely a creation of our own experiences.

Don't give up MitchT. If you want it you can have it but it takes time and it takes dedication.

More time and more dedication than most people that come to the market have to give.

 

[grantx]

Isn't the underlying message of the op, 'show me how to get rich; put up or shut up'.

My initial reaction, if posted, would get me a ban.

Grant.

 

[ceydababy]

my $0.02 cents worth...

Well I guess I maybe one of the guys that Mitch is chatting about. I did post a system that I use on T2W a week or two ago.

Personally speaking I have met some decent people on this forum, who have explained things to me, and taught me way's in which to become a better trader. Was this the reason I signed up ?? No. My friends don't trade, my girlfriend certainly doesn't and no one in my family has a clue either. I didn't join to milk people for their knowledge but merely as a place to chat with like minded individuals and broaden my horizions.

This forum is full of people from all different backgrounds, trading different markets, different strategies, full time, part time, with a skill base from expert to complete novice.

In my opinion this is the beauty of T2W, if you had an expert forum with only 5 guys in it, all of whom were at exactly the same level, it might get kind of boring for those 5 guys. The great thing here is that by people sharing ideas from novice through to expert everyone might learn something, even if it's not "how to make a million in a week", I am sure that EVERYONE who is a member from EXPERT to NOVICE has learned at least 1 thing from being a participant here.

My strategy for example, compared to what some guys do is probably not the most techinically advanced ! I'm not selling it, I don't want anything for it, I just figured this would be a place to share it. If 1 person maybe picked it up and made money with it, other than myself of course that to me would be a success.

I have never understood the whole deal that you seem to find a lot with trading/traders that "I'm not willing to share any of my knowledge with anyone I deem an inferior trader to me !" What is that about, how does anyone learn ??? Thankfully, I don't rely on other people for help, but I am sure to help anyone who asks for it to the best of my ability.

I actually got the MACD configuartion from an other T2W member a while ago, in fact one of the more "expert" members on this forum, he had no problem sharing with me. The way this member used the MACD didn't fit with me, so I put my own spin on it. That same member has looked at what I have done with it and is now looking to add some extra bits to the system himself. This is why this forum is great.

I think however, if you sign up with the expectation of someone telling you how in 12 months you are going to be sunning yourself on a yacht in the Bahamas or living on the side of an Alps in a swiss villa with a Ferrari in the drive I.E find an expert to teach you everything they know without putting any effort in yourself, that mission along with the trading one is doomed for failure.

 

[dbphoenix]

I avoided using the word 'spreadbetting' because I didn't want to appear as a gambler. I am not. I am very disciplined, very analytical and able to detach myself emotionally from the market. I choose spread betting at the moment because it's tax-efficient and simple. In theory there's no reason why it shouldn't work like trading if the decision to place bets comes from the same theory and risk is managed in the same way.

"Spreadbetting", however, is what it's called, and betting is what it is, and it is only one particular kind of trading. Therefore, again, the title of the thread is not quite pertinent to the subject of the thread if spreadbetting is the extent of your experience and interest. As to whether or not it should work like "trading", that depends on how you define "trading". What is the "theory" that is the same?

Have I implied anywhere that I insist on pedalling uphill? If I appear to have done so, please explain where. I have no desire to pedal uphill, only to make money from trading.

You're spreadbetting. Therefore, you're beginning in the hole. Beginning in the hole, you're "pedalling uphill". If that's not what you had in mind, consider some other means of trading.

Db