Do I go for it ?

[The Priest]

Very interesting thread - well done H for bringing it up.

One of the things that hasn't really been touched on is the isolation factor - we spend a long time waiting for something to happen before we enter our positions and some days we may not trade at all. You need to concentrate and that can get tiring psychologically.

The thing is about trading, not many people understand what it involves so it's difficult to discuss in the pub when you want to wind down as nobody knows what you're talking about...

About 18 months ago I set up a self-help group called the Yorkshire Traders Group and there are several of us who are full-time traders who have made the leap from 'real jobs' - I'm an ex-IT salesman myself and I don't really miss it!

If anybody is interested, we meet once a month in Leeds - next meeting is this Thursday (4th November). If you're are interested, drop me a line [email protected]

Regards,

The Priest

 

[hopefull]

Really sound advice trendsignalUK.

Keep in mind the need to generate a regular cashflow to pay the increased mortgage. The variability of cashflow through dedicated day trading is variable.

Agreement with the wife is imperative. The risk is borne by all dependants in the family.

I agree with the statement 'scared money never wins'. The risks of a poor trading decision through failing to apply a disciplined trading srategy is inevitably increased when you have so much to lose.

Try to reduce your risk exposure through acquiring a low risk but reliable cash flow stream while at the same time continuing to part time trade where you can hone your skills )

Copernicus

Yes -sound advice, thank you.

H

 

[hopefull]

Dave - No probs - What specifically would you like to know ?

The Priest - Yeah true about the isolation factor.Fortunately I had been working from home for sometime before I started this new venture so was prepared - and spot on about the Pub thing - every time I go in now I get a chorus of Buy,Buy,Buy,Buy ...no Sell,Sell, Sell......

H

 

[Dave1971]

Dave - No probs - What specifically would you like to know ?

H

Thanks hopefull,

basic stuff really, i.e How you are coping with the pressure of providing for your domestic needs from your trading, does it affect it, positively or negatively?

Also is the freedom of working for oneself worth the extra stress of having to be self sufficient.

Have you settled into a strat that you feel can give you sufficient consistency to give up any thought of returning to the day job?

hope this is not too personal, if so apologies, feel free to ignore it.

Cheers

Dave

 

[hopefull]

Thanks hopefull,

basic stuff really, i.e How you are coping with the pressure of providing for your domestic needs from your trading, does it affect it, positively or negatively?

Also is the freedom of working for oneself worth the extra stress of having to be self sufficient.

Have you settled into a strat that you feel can give you sufficient consistency to give up any thought of returning to the day job?

hope this is not too personal, if so apologies, feel free to ignore it.

Cheers

Dave

Hi Dave

When I launched myself 'full time' into this business I funded the operation with the proceeds of a re-mortgage which I used part for trading capital and part for living expenses for my first 12 months...so I have never really felt any pressure of providing for domestic needs, yet.

Maybe I am odd but I do not feel any stress (yet) but then the reason for this is probably in the explanation above....

Yes, I believe I have settled into a strat. that has/and continues to provide a consistent level of profit....it took time and a lot of commitment to find it.

As I have become more comfortable and confident in both the strat. and my ability to execute it mechanically and with no emotion my equity cure is going in the right direction and should it continue I will be in a position of clearing most if not all of the additional borrowing along with providing a pot of capital that I will use as salary for the remainder of next year. (May 05 - Dec 05).Right now I am not using any of this money as my first priority is to reduce/clear the debt incurred in launching the business.

Many people (quite rightly) say that scared money never wins..but many businesses start-up with some form of borrowing and thats the way I looked at it early this year...and refused to let it 'drag me down'

...I enjoy both the freedom and the financial rewards that trading is now presenting and if good fortune is on my side I have no intention whatsoever of returning to the 'rat race'.

Best Regards
H

 

[loukas]

I've just gone through this thread as well..

Kudos to you for pulling it off, Hopeful! Not as small feat...

Hope your trading is going well and your plans are becoming reality on your way to financial freedom! :cheesy:

Best regards,

Loukas

 

[hopefull]

I've just gone through this thread as well..

Kudos to you for pulling it off, Hopeful! Not as small feat...

Hope your trading is going well and your plans are becoming reality on your way to financial freedom! :cheesy:

Best regards,

Loukas

Hi Loukas

Well, you know exactly how it is going my friend, You have seen plenty of my trades and charts....I am 'Bonza' (I dropped 'hope' back in July of '04' - that emotion got left at the door).

Nowadays I just trade it as I see it ! 123 -4,5 ....Same thing day after day - mechanical execution of the same set-up..Boring but profitable

Yes, it has been an incredible journey..no doubt about it.Baring my soul on these boards back in April of last year was one of the best things I ever did.I received some sound advice,took it all in..and made the commitment.

Many thanks to you all once again for contributing.

 

[loukas]

Hi Loukas

Nowadays I just trade it as I see it ! 123 -4,5 ....Same thing day after day - mechanical execution of the same set-up..Boring but profitable

Hey Bonza!

Good stuff!! :cheesy:

It's interesting to discover the story behind every person you chat up on these boards... Each of our individual stories is highly different, but also very fascinating!!

As I said, I'm glad you're on your way to financial freedom!!

By the way, did you ever have to sell the house? A lot of people seemed it was the crucial step to take at that specific moment in time, a yr ago!

Cheers,

Loukas

 

[s-a]

Hi Hopeful,

I just stumbled upon your thread so I'm going to reply to your very first post. Every thing I comment on is based on my very personal and very real recent experience - of course everyones situation and tolerances are different but here is my story and my advice.

Back in Oct 2004 I had enough of being a computer programmer and quit to trade full-time. I had been trading equity options for about 2 years and had been trading FOREX for the past year. My interest in FX and trading made my regular day job feel mundane and tedious. I was not a happy camper. All my spare time was spent bettering my trading, but I couldn't progress at the pace that I wanted to. Working another job and starting my trading business on the side wasn't cutting it. I needed to completely commit myself to the trading business if I was going to get anywhere here. I did something similar to what Bramble originally posted. I re-financed my home loan and captalized myself. Now perhaps I am just justifying my actions here but to me this seems no different then starting up any other business - take a loan to get plant and equipment to start the business.

All the things I need to work on psychological and my committment to trading was the first huge step I had to take. I wish you all the best in your journey, whatever you decide.

Take care.

Hopefully yours,
HG

 

[hopefull]

No worries HG

Yes I totally agree with you - Launching into trading for a living is just like launching any other business in that it needs researched first ,then it is down to the individual to asses his or her ability to to make a go of it.

I needed to borrow money to launch the business - just as you and I expect many others have had to as well.I was comfortable with my degree of borrowing and in many ways it made me even more determined to 'get things right'..

Funnily enough though for me it has all been an anti -climax...I enjoy the benefits of trading for a living both financially and in the freedom it offers - but trading in itself is actually quite boring to me now.


Speaking from my own experience I believe the best way forward is to trade no more than 1-2 methods/set-ups only (take ownership of them..know them inside out ) and treat everything else as market noise which is to be avoided.

That way trading does become mechanical - I am no more than a monkey clicking a mouse or hitting some keys - thats it

I wish you every success in your business venture.



PS. Loukas - No, I have not had to sell my house

 

[jmreeve]

That way trading does become mechanical - I am no more than a monkey clicking a mouse or hitting some keys - thats it

So why not just automate and do something less boring instead?

 

[jimmy1jag]

Well that was a really good read.

I was originally looking at data feeds and having entered "data feed" in the engine higher up this screen and this thread came up. I very often find myself reading threads from beginning to end anyway and have just spent the last couple of hours reading this one from beginning to end. The storyline could have been fiction... except of course it's not.

And then there are a couple of cameo appearances (Skim's being the one that sticks in the mind)!

I'm in a different position to Hopefull in that I was made redundant in very similar circumstances in June 2002 but went straight back work but contracting rather than being a proper employee. Money's fine as the day rates in the type of consulting I do are good, so the knack is to get continuity. However, with a very extended Xmas break I've had the opportunity to start learning about trading. And I've started with a very small pot indeed.

To cut to the quick, the key lesson I take away from this thread is the need to reevaluate my strategy, and strip it down and rebuild and to stop the "oh look that one's moving let's trade it" dickings around (which of course I take a small loss on- small because I do always place a stop loss); to focus on one or two markets with movement and to learn that/ those markets inside out.

So I say thank you to you guys who have inadvertently helped me a great deal to force me to re-think what I'm doing.

 

[s-a]

So why not just automate and do something less boring instead?

jmreeve,

I believe what hopeful is trying to say is that to him, his system seems mechanical but that doesn't mean it can be clearly expressed within the verbose limitations of a programming language. How do you program intuition? IMHO, not all strategies are programmable so they can run on autopilot. Some people take in so many inputs into their models and call them mechanical but can't sufficiently express how it works to a precise enough level of detail to be a programmable system.

HG

 

[DaveT]

Interesting thread.

Well, 'hopefull', you went for it....

It would be interesting to find out how you have fared on your trading journey.

How are you doing now ,18 months on?

 

[hopefull]

Hi Dave

Blimey - 18 months I can hardly believe it.


In Summary:-

1st 3 months were hell - probably more psychological than anything else in the sense that I had difficulty coming to terms with what trading was all about.

I had my set ups pretty well nailed down (only use two, reversal and continuation signals off a 60/5/1 combo) but I was cutting the winning trades far too fast and also trailing my stops way to close..Basically I possessed that futile quality (in trading) of needing to be proved right as much as possible.


Then I got my head around what I perceived I was - and still stand by it now - I am a gambler and that is how I earn my living. It don't sound glamourous but once I accepted it, I got to grips with money management and that was probably the "turning the corner moment"

I designed a money management system that 'sat well' with the set-ups which I trade and use a paring out approach to assist me in removing the 'emotional' detachment from the trade and I found it helped in trading the chart in a more clinical and brutal manner.

I take on the same trades day in day out now - my strat. works so I feel no need to change anything.I trade some longer term swingers but cut my teeth off the fast time-frames on Cable - it can be a wild beast at times - but its one that I am comfortable with and understand the rules of engagement.

So I am still primarily an intra-day clipper..using price action only.

Thankfully the "do I go for it post" received an excellent response and I am still grateful to this day I posted it..it also connected me with some other full time traderswho 'held my hand' during those first few months and have gone on to become trading buddies as time has progressed.

Funny how things change though - the mornings of coming to the desk with butterflies in the pit of my stomach have gone,as has the 'excitement' - markets continue moving and there is always another trade to be made....

Soo - HTH

Are you also a full-time trader Dave ?

 

[DaveT]

hopefull -

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your comments and sentiments about trading.

I do trade full-time - though I take a longer term approach to my trades than yourself.

Basically I am a swing/position trader, who specialises in the commodities. I do scan the currencies , and may take a trade there from time to time. I started about 3 years ago, so I guess I got into the commodities scene just as this current secular bull market was starting.

Like you, I apporached the set-up phase as any other business, and wrote a detailed business/trading plan which I still refer to on a daily basis.

My methodology (entry/exit rules) were carefully designed and back-tested, and serve me well, though at first I needed to work on the DISCIPLINE to religiously stick to these rules, and not take a trade otherwise. The system is based on SET-UP and TRIGGER points:

SET-UP - uses Seasonal Charts,monthly and weekly chart TA.

TRIGGER- uses a combination of Bollinger Bands/Keltner Channel/RSI and Daily Chart TA Patterns - eg ascending triangle, S/R, etc

I may take a small or large position, depending upon probability of set-up, volatility and other factors, some personal. Generally I have done well, but have to admit to the periodic 'setback' which may have come from over-leveraging. Discipline in this area is very important, and must be related to account size, IMO.

I can relate to your story of the early 'excitement' giving way to something more sober, but I find I have a never-ending enthusiasm for the markets and can't wait to get to my desk each morning to update my charts, etc. I think maintaining a long-term enthusiasm and love of the game is key to longevity/long-term success in this business...

I am currently trading Coffee and Lean Hogs, looking to enter Cocoa and Crude again soon. Did very well out of Coffee last year....

 

[Directional]

Hopefull,
another year down the line since your last post.

I enjoyed reading this thread - wondered if you could update us on your progress?

 

[scotty_dog]

Hopefull,
another year down the line since your last post.

I enjoyed reading this thread - wondered if you could update us on your progress?

I'd be interested to hear from you as well....

 

[rizwanuk]

Yes Hopefull let the journey of hope continue, please update us so that one hopeful may lead many to hope and the hope of the dream may reign.

 

[timsk]

Yes Hopefull let the journey of hope continue, please update us so that one hopeful may lead many to hope and the hope of the dream may reign.

I thought hope was a four letter word to traders! As it's been a full year since Arb's request for an update and 2 years since Hopefull last posted, I think you'll need more than a little hope for the journey of hope to continue. I suggest we take our lead from his last post which was both upbeat and positive. Let's assume that he has made shed loads of wonga and is now enjoying a life of luxury on a tropical island with each and every whim catered for. As for trading and these boards, well, he has more pressing matters to attend to, such as trying to decide which of his beautiful handmaidens will have the honour of massaging his tired muscles after a long day sunbathing . . .

Tim.