Do I belong in trading?

I've recently graduated with a high upper second class honors in Mathematics, and I am studying a Masters also in Mathematics where I am on track for a distinction. While I was at university, I became renowned for my poker ability - I was ranked on a well known poker database for a year at #2 for total earnings for the year (within a medium sized stake size), #10 for average earning for the year, and I still have a ranking in another category (which isn't for a specific stake bracket).

lets say if you couldnt get in the hedge fund.

you already had the answers, try poker player full time and trading part-time first. if had enough poker capital & assumed if you could do it, once over period you should know if trading suits you or not
 
I've recently graduated with a high upper second class honors in Mathematics, and I am studying a Masters also in Mathematics where I am on track for a distinction. While I was at university, I became renowned for my poker ability - I was ranked on a well known poker database for a year at #2 for total earnings for the year (within a medium sized stake size), #10 for average earning for the year, and I still have a ranking in another category (which isn't for a specific stake bracket)......

If anyone has any insight as to what the chances are that my above skills will be able to help me land a job in a semi-decent hedge fund - either as a trader or a quantitative analyst (although I understand this is usually a field for PhD's) or any advice on how I should leverage my experiences to break into trading, I would be extremely greatful!


Started Kindergarten 1 year early.
Accepted to a prestigious G&T School at age 7.
Graduated Elementary School 1 year early.
Accepted to a prestigious Prep School at age 12.
Graduated High School 2 years early with Multiple Scholarship Offers.
Accepted Berkeley: B.S. Physics.
Accepted Stanford: B.S. Applied Mathematics.
Accepted Embry Riddle: B.S. Aerodynamics, M.S. Engineering Flight Physics.
Commissioned: USAF 1st.Lt.
Graduated: USAF UPT (T-37 and T-38)
Assignments: FAIP, FTS, FWS, SERE, F-15E Persian Gulf and TPS.
Retired USAF: Major.

Career #2: Enterprise Technology.
Company: Several SV Companies
Projects: Several Global Enterprise Deployments (Design/Implementation)
Years: 10.
Status: Retired.

Career #3: Trader (Not).
Years 2: Derivative Equity Options.
Success: Extremely Limited (Lost tens of thousands of dollars).
Bewilderment Factor 1-10: 10.
Surprise Factor 1-10: 10.
Frustration Factor 1-10: 10.
Quit Factor: 1-10: 0.

(Live to fight another day)

Career #4: Market Data Research, Quantitative Analysis & Trader.
Years 6: Currencies (Pairs/Spot/Options).
Success: High ($9,000K to $18.7MM, as of today).
Bewilderment Factor 1-10: 0.
Surprise Factor 1-10: 0.
Frustration Factor 1-10: 0.
Quit Factor 1-10: 0.

Career #5: Money Manager (Private Fund)
Years 1.5: Currencies (Pairs/Spot/Options/Others)
Success: High.
Target Goals: $2BLN to $4BLN under management
On Course: Yes.

None of my education could prepare me for this and I never failed at anything in my life before UNTIL I started Trading and playing Golf.

Trading and Golf are two of the most difficult things on earth to master. Just ask any real Trader and any real Golfer. When you look-up the Most Stressful Job in The World, Trader, does not even rank! How on earth, anyone could ever produce a "Most Stressful Job" list and not even have Trader listed in the top 10, is mind-blowing to say the least. But, then again, they never list Tactical Combat Pilot on the list either - so what do "they" know anyway.

Because I have been a Tactical Combat Pilot, I can tell you first-hand that Trader easily ranks on par with any combat mission I've ever flown - period, from a purely psychological standpoint. Some of the exact same thoughts, thought patterns and even physiological responses, are were present with all of my trading in the early years.

Increased heart rates, increased respiratory rates, increased blood-flow, dilated pupils, extreme and intense increase in focus and concentration and an overall heightened sense of total environmental awareness - were all symptoms that I experienced to some degree as a Combat Pilot AND as a Trader. The more I increased my capital, the more intense the symptoms became. I quickly found myself automatically falling-back into the psychological combat training routines. When you start trading above the 95% accuracy level using 50% of your total equity per trade, things start to get very intense in a hurry. Nothing short of high-performance Trading.

No matter what your background, who you think you are, where you come from, where you think you come from, what you have accomplished in the academic arena, corporate arena, military arena, who your parents are or who you think your parents are - NOTHING and I mean NOTHING can or will prepare you to be a serious long-term successful Trader. This is not something you simply "prepare for," this is something you were either born to do or not born to do at the very high levels. Mediocre, won't get you very far in this business.

Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc., etc., etc., have all produced people that failed and failed miserably at being a successful long-term Trader. This job is not easy (at first) until you figure out a way to develop your Edge. I know plenty of Ph.D.s who can't make enough money to pay their rent on-time. I've worked with plenty of Ph.D.s who could not run a small department or business unit, let alone an entire Corporation. So, merely having academic prowess means nothing without the ability to produce an Edge. The Edge is what keeps you alive. The Edge is what allows you to flourish, while others are failing. The Edge is what produces long-term success. The Edge is what makes you a high-performance Trader. In combat, you need and Edge.

Any monkey without a Ph.D. can make money in a Bull Market. Only Market Savants can make money in a Bull, Bear or Flat (horizontal) Market. There are not many Market Savants out there willing to talk to you, let alone share any of their secrets and/or experiences. The "Edge" is not easy to come by and it will (I promise you) take more hard work than you have ever done in your life - if it is a true Edge. You can quote me on that.

Learning to fly the F-15, was one thing. Learning how to fight and stay alive in the F-15, was quite another thing. Learning how to Trade, is easy. Learning WHY you should be in the Trade, is extremely difficult until you develop your Edge. And, anyone (I don't care who it is) who tries to sell you any other version of this business is Popping Smoke.

You will EARN the right to remain in this business long-term or you will not remain in this business for very long. Make no mistake about. This is the closet thing to actual warfare that you will psychologically experience, short of being deployed in-theater. You will either develop the mentality of a Financial Warrior or you will parish in Financial defeat. All Warriors, have and Edge. Not having one virtually guarantees your demise.

When someone decides to hire you as a "Trader" - it is solely because you have an E.D.G.E. and not because you have a P.H.D. Not if the one hiring your intends to remain in business for very long. Therefore, while the academic achievement is a tremendously proud and hopeful thing (and you are to be commended for what you have accomplished in School), you must demonstrate to the one investing their time and capital in you, that you have now, or possess the Savant-like-ability to produce, an Edge. You have to learn how to Survive before you learn how to Thrive. There is no Academic University that can teach you this. The only University in the world that can help you in this regard is called the UHK - The University of Hard Knocks.

The absolute best advice that I can give you, is to tell you to invest the time, energy and effort into some serious Market Data Research & Analysis, that will produce a repeatable Edge in every market condition (Vertical and Horizontal). When you can do that - you won't need an Employer. You will trade for yourself, manage your own funds and enjoy all the profits. You will also be fully responsible for ALL THE LOSSES. And, the losses will come - expect them - deal with them - then move on to the next trade.

I don't mean to be so hard on you, but the sooner you get through this Romantic phase in your life as a Trader, the sooner you will join the reality known as Trading for a Living which is far different than dreaming about it. Fail to produce an Edge and this business will eat you alive and turn your dream into a nightmare. Produce the Edge and YOU become the Hunter instead of the Hunted.

Producing your unique Edge, is the ONLY thing you should concern yourself with right now. You can thank me later, as you don't yet have the eyes nor the ears to thank me for this now. In time, you will remember this post and recall how impossible it would have been for you to make it in this business long-term, without your unique Edge.

You are smart, bright and extremely talented.................. enough to know that you NEED an Edge!

Do I belong in trading?

If you can produce your Edge.
 
The very interesting thing about Trading is that from a career standpoint, it is still one of the last great equalizers! Many, extremely intelligent people fail at this business - yet, there are those who would not score 950 on their SAT, but be able to rack-up millions or billions as a Savant Trader over time. This is part science and part art and it requires an Edge to achieve any lasting (long-term) success.

People come from all walks of life into the world of Trading for a Living. There is no one size fits all container for what makes a successful Trader, other than extreme hard work, dedication and commitment to the business AND the sincere desire to produce a lasting Edge.

Mental attitude and psychological disposition, are two of the most important factors that would cause me to project whether or not someone just starting out in this business would still be around several years down the road and still operating as a Trader.
 
After I read all your posts, I found, "trading" mentioned here was quite different from "trading" we mentioned in China.
 
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