Delusions, desperation and tortured souls

[Splitlink]

Does anyone care to relate this to trading or the identification of delusional traders?

Maybe I am deluded. In which case, I have been identified! However, I am unlikely to post reams of pages on the subject, which makes the thread accessible to other ideas.

I don't believe that it could be related to trading, either, or I might have studied philosophy
more earnestly

Split

 

[nickerson334]

Maybe I am deluded. In which case, I have been identified! However, I am unlikely to post reams of pages on the subject, which makes the thread accessibñe to other ideas.

I don't believe that it could be related to trading, either, or I might have studied philosophy
more earnestly

Split

--------------


Hi Split,






I wasn't suggesting in my post that you are deluded.


I meant.... How does your belief system relate to your trading (if at all) and how does your beleif system help to identify narcessistic delusional traders (if at all).


I'm only asking that as I'm trying to relate back to the topic of the thread (posted by Glenn)


I'm suggesting that Zen philosophy may help to develop a successful trader mindset

1: internal peace

2: Some psychological detatchment from money and ego.

Those are the 2 main psychological characteristics (identified by Tharpe in Market Wizards) , which are found in the world's most successful traders.

I'm also suggesting that this mindset will help a trader to easily identify and avoid a 'deluded narcesist trader'

The narcessist as described by Glenn has no internal peace and a massive attatchment to self image and ego.

You say your religious belief brings you "internal peace".

This is a successful trader's characteristic.
(according to the research).




Kindest regards,


david

 

[nickerson334]

Does anyone care to relate this to the topic of the thread? i.e. trading and the identification of delusional traders?


Right I'm definitly off to the gym!

Have a good evening everyone!

 

[Splitlink]

--------------


Hi Split,






I wasn't suggesting in my post that you are deluded.


I meant.... How does your belief system relate to your trading (if at all) and how does your beleif system help to identify narcessistic delusional traders (if at all).


I'm only asking that as I'm trying to relate back to the topic of the thread (posted by Glenn)


I'm suggesting that Zen philosophy may help to develop a successful trader mindset

1: internal peace

2: Some psychological detatchment from money and ego.

Those are the 2 main psychological characteristics (identified by Tharpe in Market Wizards) , which are found in the world's most successful traders.

I'm also suggesting that this mindset will help a trader to easily identify and avoid a 'deluded narcesist.'

The narcessist as described by Glenn has no internal peace and a massive attatchment to self image and ego.

You say your religious belief brings you "internal peace".

This is a successful trader's characteristic.
(according to the research).




Kindest regards,


david

I know! Don't worry, I like to take the Micky out of myself, rather than of other people--- I know what my sense of humour can tolerate!

My "peace of mind" was with reference to what I think may happen to me when I cross the bar, not to my trading abilities

Split

 

[nickerson334]

I know! Don't worry, I like to take the Micky out of myself, rather than of other people--- I know what my sense of humour can tolerate!

My "peace of mind" was with reference to what I think may happen to me when I cross the bar, not to my trading abilities

Split

Sure, apparantly that peace of mind makes you a better trader.


That's according to psychologists though ......................




Have a good evening.



David

 

[Splitlink]

You've got to believe in mankind.

You can't fully believe in yourself if you don't believe in mankind.

You and i are mankind.

In the main most people are good at heart.

You and I disagree! But not to worry

Split

 

[nickerson334]

What is a delusional trader?

Do we all start off delusional?

Is conquering self delusion the key to successful tradfing?

Is self delusion a totally negative concept?

Can a person ever really measure and erradicate thier own self delusion, or is self delusion reality up to a certain point?

Hi Linesniffer

The thread is the discussion of a psychological disorder called Narcissism
and how this affects trading.


Anyhows.................................How about I start a new one for the debate over the existence of God?

 

[jacinto]

Hi Linesniffer

The thread is the discussion of a psychological disorder called Narcissism
and how this affects trading.


Anyhows.................................How about I start a new one for the debate over the existence of God?

if you do, and be more than welcome to do so if it so pleases you, would you mind doing it in the foyer?

j

 

[nickerson334]

"Anyhows.................................How about I start a new thread for the debate over the existence of God?"


Hi Jacinto,

I was being sarcastic.





ps I guess that's my fault for using 'the lowest form of wit!

 

[Splitlink]

if you do, and be more than welcome to do so if it so pleases you, would you mind doing it in the foyer?

j

Yes, it's difficult to keep a thread on track--- I'm sorry for deviating.

Split

 

[Glenn]

Hi Linesniffer

The thread is the discussion of a psychological disorder called Narcissism
and how this affects trading.
QUOTE]

Not how it affects trading, no. You seem to be missing the point. You might want to read the first post again to see what I mean.
And not Narcissism alone, but an extreme form of it called Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is different.

It's about how it affects the behaviour of the afflicted towards other people, and the effects that that might have for the worse.

Glenn

 

[grantx]

Glenn,

Fair points. Accepted.

Spitlink,

“I am at peace with myself on the spiritual front.” Regardless of our disagreements or differences, I envy you for that, which no amount of wealth can bring. Inner-peace and tranquillity is what I should aim for, for personal well-being and as a sound basis for trading.

Grant.

 

[jacinto]

"Anyhows.................................How about I start a new thread for the debate over the existence of God?"


Hi Jacinto,

I was being sarcastic.





ps I guess that's my fault for using 'the lowest form of wit!

no worries, but to be honest, I thought that is the last thing I think this whole website (not only this thread) needs.

I guess I am stupid for not seeing your sarcasm.

j

 

[nickerson334]

Hi Linesniffer

The thread is the discussion of a psychological disorder called Narcissism
and how this affects trading.
QUOTE]

Not how it affects trading, no. You seem to be missing the point. You might want to read the first post again to see what I mean.
And not Narcissism alone, but an extreme form of it called Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is different.

It's about how it affects the behaviour of the afflicted towards other people, and the effects that that might have for the worse.

Glenn

Oh, ok. I'm here to discuss psychology in relation to trading.


I'll get my coat...............................

 

[starspacer]

Good thread and some interesting points. I am particularly pleased that disagreement between contributors has been expressed in a non-aggressive and well reasoned way.

Let me throw open the debate by asking if narcissistic personality disorder is always a bad thing (on the assumption that no-one is harmed)?

For example, some people may only be able to cope in the 'real world' by surrounding themselves with this 'narcissistic shield'. It may give them the confidence they need to interact with others.

As I see it, it is up to the non-narcissist to see whether or not the emperor has any clothes.

In Stephen King's novel Needful Things, an old man runs a shop with the words "Caveat Emptor" written large on a sign. This is ignored by the greedy, selfish people who enter the store. If these people had but thought for a minute, and if they had been more detached from the material world, they wouldn't have entered. Nor should we.

 

[Splitlink]

Everybody is narcissistic, but to varying degrees.

It's when you can't control it that it becomes a problem.

If it is a mental illness, then it will manifest itself upon some one, probably an immediate family member. Can the common case of an elderly, sick parent who makes her child feel guilty about getting married or, for some reason wanting to leave the home so as to have more independence, be an example? Or is this a case of a survival instinct i.e. not wanting to be left alone?

In any case, I doubt whether there would be a case for a psychiatrist.
The ordinary person would, most likely, label the offending person as "someone who only thinks of himself". That's not illegal, like chasing someone around with a carving knife!

Split

 

[Crap Buddist]

Oh, ok. I'm here to discuss psychology in relation to trading.


I'll get my coat...............................

yeah I see your point and glenn's .

Maybe again its back to accepting some paths which are pleasing to an individuals beliefs and refusing to even consider to be open ,or worrying about a paths likely course of direction which holds them back from being open to know ,or at least tackle uncertain outcomes?

The ' what should I do if i do not know situation', maybe this is a question of knowing how to manage fight or flight and balancing that with the typically ingrained condition of jonny should be good because if he is then he will get a reward. ? This worrying of unknown paths , the focus on the worrying of the unknown ,perhaps whilst humanistically (sp) is predicatble to some,perhaps to the un-open manifests as emotionally conflict of fight or flight indecision.

People generally need to? or are conditioned to , to rely on habitual known ,typically assumed outcomes in advance of the event, the unknowing or unknown path doesnt feel comfortable to the individual stepping on it (as they have been conditioned to typically function for typical predictable life events) Theres a conflict perhaps, the reasoning of doing what needs to be done going against the ,deeply installed of emotion of not wanting to let ' a 'self down by being right. ?


Im sure some members know what strings to pull,buttons to push in order to create an order of disorder in some attempt to create a lesson in thinking , by not judging that which appears black and white is not all that it seems.

This maybe, is applicable in trading as price is intentionally skewed (at times) from intent of (known,anticipated) 'forseen direction'

 

[Glenn]

Good thread and some interesting points. I am particularly pleased that disagreement between contributors has been expressed in a non-aggressive and well reasoned way.

Let me throw open the debate by asking if narcissistic personality disorder is always a bad thing (on the assumption that no-one is harmed)?

For example, some people may only be able to cope in the 'real world' by surrounding themselves with this 'narcissistic shield'. It may give them the confidence they need to interact with others.

As I see it, it is up to the non-narcissist to see whether or not the emperor has any clothes.

In Stephen King's novel Needful Things, an old man runs a shop with the words "Caveat Emptor" written large on a sign. This is ignored by the greedy, selfish people who enter the store. If these people had but thought for a minute, and if they had been more detached from the material world, they wouldn't have entered. Nor should we.

" (on the assumption that no-one is harmed)?"

If you look at the definition then you can see that harm has already been done -

"Pathological narcissism is an infantile defence against abuse and trauma, usually occurring in early childhood or early adolescence. "

- on that basis your assumption cannot hold true. The person with the condition is already harmed and has altered their behaviour in order to cope.
The way in which they cope is laid out in the first post within the symptoms. Would anyone choose to continue having those symptoms if they could be eliminated ? Personally I don't think so because life would be a roller-coaster ride of the extremes of elation and misery largely controlled by others.

And then there is the issue of the effect they may have on other people, which again brings us back to the first post -

"You might imagine that the lengths to which such people could go to gain acceptance and appear superior could include first being convinced and deluded about something in particular and then trying to convince others of it, and especially where money is concerned on a web site like this. "

"As I see it, it is up to the non-narcissist to see whether or not the emperor has any clothes."

Agreed "...people may care to know what these symptoms are and make up their own minds. "
And to add again that such symptoms have appeared in some quarters on this web site regularly and consistently for a long time.

Glenn

 

[grantx]

Starspacer,

Is “narcissistic personality disorder…always a bad thing?”

Before reading this it occurred to me that many of the flaws of the NPD (indeed, many psychological disorders) are only relative, ie the degree (lack of) they reflect ‘normal’ behaviour in a society.

“some people may only be able to cope in the 'real world' by surrounding themselves with this 'narcissistic shield'. It may give them the confidence they need to interact with others.” And is this bad? No, of it isn’t. Isn’t it the case the majority of us present a façade of some degree to the outside world, to disguise what we perceive as flaws in our characters, to impress others, to be accepted as part of a group? If we didn’t, perhaps we wouldn’t or couldn’t function fully or interact with others. But by contrast, imagine someone utterly perfect – physically, intellectually, spiritually, socially. They would be considered arrogant and/or pretentious and natural targets of jealousy, pettiness and vindictiveness.

“it is up to the non-narcissist to see whether or not the emperor has any clothes.” I agree, but unfortunately those not qualified also make judgements.

"Caveat Emptor…ignored by the greedy” As the Dr Faustus/Mephistopholes pact. But we are all either victims or perpetrators these days – whichever has the advantage.

Linesniffer,

This is funny : “Is narcissism hereditary?”. To answer your question, unlike sea-horses, self-procreation is not possible for humans (hermaphrodites might be another matter); they cannot have relationships with others. “I'll let you know what i think of you and your family.” Excellent.

I see paranoia is emerging. Is fetishising trading a psychological trait?

Grant.

 

[options]

LOL !
This is truly, truly ironic and 'funny' in a shoot yourself in the foot kinda thing.

A thread started by Glen as I surmise to have a pop at the likes of Socs et al, which started off to be a very interesting and serious debate has fallen into, and heading towards the same pointless shambles of recent threads on T2w.

The reason: Too many people have developed a little bit of knowledge, and not made the effort to acquire more knowledge before they start posting away in the belief the other people want to hear what they have to say.

Now that is narcissism!

The English written word can so very easily be taken out of all context and intended meaning so any recipient sees a slight where none was ever intend, and hence the battle amour and stones make an appearance.

I also think that socs has been singlehandedly responsible in raising the standard of English in peoples' replies. Because Socs talks in longer words people tend to reply in longer words. Which in turn raises standards, which have been in decline over the last years to a serious degree. The only problem being (And I mean this with no disrespect, because it is not your fault, but the fault of the school system), but if people wish to post words that are unfamilar to them they could at least use the dictionary for the correct spelling and use correct gramatical context.

I won't name names or point the finger as this post is directed at no one imparticular,

It is a site for trading and basic education is not a barrier to succesfull trading. People as thick as **** can make a living just as easily as the more educated.

And on another note: Nickerson! nice to see you back m8 Give me a pm sometime to catch up.