CWM FX - I Told You So !

I'm sorry, I just read that CWM statement and nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Whoever is giving them advice should be fired, or maybe the CEO is having a Ratner moment.

Priceless!
 
having seen notice that participants of the cwm scheme had to sign a non disclosure agreement.

does anyone know what was in there?
 
Apologies for my musings... but it is synchronous with age.

From the various accounts of the raid, City AM have confirmed that not only were certain people arrested but that a number of computers and documents were also seized in the raid. Both City AM and the Standard have stated that the investment was subscribed to clients in the UK and abroad. I find it interesting that in the light of the statement... "Now we need anyone who thinks they have invested in this specific enterprise to get in contact and help us clarify exactly how this company has been using the funds given to them in good faith by the citizens living in the UK and abroad.." errr hang on a minute!

This is allegedly a large criminal case with significant ramifacations, arrests have been made, computers and documents seized, yet the request from the police for investors to urgently get in touch is mentioned in City AM and the Standard. I neither live in London nor read City AM or the Standard. No national or international media coverage, nothing on the news etc, so how on earth are investors to even know there may be issues that need to be addressed and that they are part of an on-going police investigation?

Also... the Police are asking for investors to step forward... surely, if they seized computers and documentation, have the money trails (as pointed out by Tracker535), are over 3 weeks into their investigation post the raid (and presumably they must have some allegations/supporting documentation pre the raid) that the police should be making contact with those they know of? (Note to self... take phone off the hook and switch mobile off) - apologies a little tongue in cheek humour.

Anybody else here think this to be a little incredulous, (probably not but hey ho...

I also quote... " Thanks to everyone here who has contributed, and lets hope innocent investors see at least something back and those that should have known better learn a valuable lesson." Again I would suggest that the latter part of the statement is probably aimed at me. So, just for the record, lessons have been learn't.

Lesson 1. Not all is as it appears!
Lesson 2. Ignore Lesson 1 as NOTHING is as it appears

In respect of non-disclosure... Don't you just find it fascinating how someone in good faith agrees, without pressure or duress to hold information private and confidential and not to disclose and then....

ah well, at least my wife said she would be faithfull!
 
Just out of curiosity... especially for all of the knowledgeable forex guys out there.

Is it possible, on average (I understand that one day you will be up and another day you will be down), to make an average 0.5% to 0.75% profit per day trading FX given that you have the trading skills and technology to produce such results?
 
I never agreed to hold any info private, never at any time in my life...If I had signed any document to say I would keep it private then I most certainly would do just that..

Supposedly it was "to protect the product"... haha
 
Some people show paperwork to customers which says they make profits that average 25-30% per month!......
 
I quote.. "I never agreed to hold any info private, never at any time in my life...If I had signed any document to say I would keep it private then I most certainly would do just that.. Supposedly it was "to protect the product"... haha"

>> I never said that you did agree not to Watfordwig... however the person who signed the NDA that you have access to, did in all faith agree to... or if it is unsigned then it is a matter of hearsay and as I said, my comments are just the musings of an old man.
 
Quote.. "Some people show paperwork to customers which says they make profits that average 25-30% per month!...... "

>> Not sure of the specific relevance to the topic but yes, some people do! <<
 
Indignation said:
Just out of curiosity... especially for all of the knowledgeable forex guys out there.

Is it possible, on average (I understand that one day you will be up and another day you will be down), to make an average 0.5% to 0.75% profit per day trading FX given that you have the trading skills and technology to produce such results?
Click to expand...

From a brokers perspective:

Not on the A book model and it is highly unlikely on the B book model either.

On an A book model the FX brokerage will try to make around $70 - $90 per $M traded as their commission. Anything above this is pretty good but will rely on clients trading pairs with a wider spread than 1.5 pips.

On a B book model an FX company which handles risk business worth a notional $1bn (1 yard) per day would expect to make no more than $100 per $M of risk.

This would imply that a B book brokerage with total traded risk value of $1bn per day would expect to earn somewhere in the region of $100,000 per day. The A book brokerage with $1bn of agency/STP FX business would be happy with $80,000 per day.

On a day where it all goes very right for the B book the FX house could earn $1m. The A book FX company would not have good or bad days in terms of risk, they would have good or bad days in terms of volume and spread paid.

To capture 0.5% of $1bn of notional t/o would be highly unlikely. It may happen as an exception but <1 day per year and certainly not as part of any brokerage model.
 
deltatrader12 said:
Hi Guys,

I just thought I would put up some additional information to give you all some clarity. Unfortunately, my original post was deleted so I cannot re-post it exactly as before but I will endeavor to outline some of the salient points.

I worked briefly for CWM FX in December and resigned in disgust after just a couple of days.

1) It was an absolute boiler room. Seriously,it was truly beyond bad and truly intense (much much worse than what many of you may have seen in any film and I have seen a couple boiler room operations in real life). They had a large room at the Heron Tower office set up as a sales floor with salesmen crammed in two to a desk. They were standing up virtually all day (only two 15 minute breaks and a 1 hour lunch break were allowed). Nobody could sit down for more than a few seconds or they were immediately shouted at by a supervisor to stand up. The whole floor was standing almost all day from morning to 7 pm aggressively selling on the phone with constant shouting/pressure to achieve sales targets from managers.

2) There was a really huge turnover and people were being fired constantly (in my brief time there a handful disappeared and I worked there for only a couple of days !). There were no work contracts at all and there was an atmosphere of fear (with no employment contracts they could dismiss anyone at the drop of a hat and they very often did). They literally had deodorants on the desks as the place got very hot and sweaty (bringing new meaning to the words 'boiler room'). There was also huge pressure to sell through introducing brokers and employees were pressured into selling to friends and family (I am sure many of the people who invested on the platform were probably introduced by people they trusted).

3) After a short induction everybody was given the title of 'senior account manager'. I found they were mostly former wine/carbon brokers and some were just teenagers. Many members of the management team had a background from unregulated binary options firms (One 2 Trade, I believe) and some had no financial background at all (the general manager was a yacht skipper previously to the best of my knowledge). None of them seemed to have any idea about financial regulations and most had a very limited knowledge of the financial markets. Didn't inspire confidence.

4) In and of itself none of this was against regulations (perhaps employment regulations) just very very aggressive, highly questionable and unethical. What was very wrong was the extremely misleading sales practices. FX is very risky and people were being promised a safe 'second income' and no risk warnings of any kind were given. In fact, just the opposite, it was being touted as a new asset class with boundless upside, huge profits and rewards (In my previous deleted post I put up this link as evidence http://uk.whocalledme.com/PhoneNumber/02036953844 ). This was totally against UK regulations regarding the promotion of financial services.

The company was spending massive amounts on fixed costs and marketing campaigns. I originally assumed that they were churning their clients to get maximum commissions out of them and not paying their staff after squeezing them dry and firing them. However, it still would not have been enough to pay for the Heron Tower office and all their marketing expenses and 'show'. There would never have been enough money to generate a profit from purely a forex platform for such an expensive operation and something was missing. Anyway, in my assessment, the figures still did not add up and something still seemed wrong.

Then I learned later what was really happening. Apparently, they were speaking to clients 'off the record' about a 'guaranteed investment' (there were posts on other sites about this I read and I had learned something about it while I was there). They were telling prospects that they had infallible traders at the office and a wealthy billionaire CEO who would underwrite losses (but he wasn't on the Times Rich List and I had never heard of him before). They also had a rent-free period on their lease. The assumption was that they were taking in this 'off the record' money without properly accounting for it. Of course, generating guaranteed stable risk-free returns on the highly volatile FX market is practically impossible. The assumption was that there would come a point where the 'investment' would not pay off and they would either pin it on somebody internally or say the money never existed at all or that it was sent offshore. Then they would bail out of the snazzy office and shut up shop. A classic Ponzi scheme (this is what another poster suggested on my thread and it seemed to fit the facts). A hallmark of Ponzi schemes, of course, is the 'guaranteed' or 'stable' and infallible investment.

Now irrespective of whether it was a Ponzi scheme or not. They did not have the license to market asset management services in the UK. They certainly did not have all the regulatory systems and controls in place for AML (taking money from clients 'off the record' as they were) and ...obviously...they were not giving people clear brochures or fact sheets as per UK regulations and their sales tactics were misleading. So it was still illegal.

It is impossible to say if they were running a Ponzi scheme without a full investigation (although, in view of their huge fixed costs and marketing and the 'off the record' way they took in the money, it would be the only plausible explanation that would make financial sense) but what they did was definitely against UK regulations nonetheless. Other explanations are possible (less than intelligent cowboy managers, lack of internal controls, a company over-extending itself etc).

Hence for this reason I gave 'my fellow man' a 'heads up'. Both potential employees (and existing ones for that matter) as well as future investors. Many of the employees there were naive or graduates working in their first job (many were desperate for 'experience' and there is no shortage of such in London for employers to abuse) so not all were to blame. I advised CAUTION and certainly made it clear I had no axe to grind and that I was not a disgruntled employee. I left it up to everyone to make up their own minds and do extra due diligence.

Incidentally, I don't think that Leverate was part of this. They are essentially a white label platform and probably had no idea of what was going on, although you could argue they should have been monitoring their partner.

Anyway, if anyone has made this kind of investment I recommend asking CWM FX for a refund of their money (something every regulated firm should be able to do) or at least evidence of their account balance. If they do not refund your money back perhaps speak to the Financial Ombudsman Scheme and carry on through the usual channels with the regulator. I hope in my heart that you have enough evidence/paperwork in terms of transferring money etc. that you can prove you paid in the money and that it wasn't handed over in cash or something.

Perhaps people who have paid into this scheme can post about the details of the payments ...was it sent offshore? Did you get paperwork? Do you have online access to your account balance ? Did you get a monthly statement of profits ? Did you get brochures ? etc
Click to expand...

I worked here as well for a short period. Everything said is absolutely true. Also, the Fact that the majority of the time they wanted clients to essentially trade on whipsaws on news reports (generating commissions each time) left me with a sick feeling in my mouth. I know of other things as well but that will all come out eventually - things that extend past financial crime.
 
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