Community Constitution

[Hakuna Matata]

Catch the Ice Dude (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bipole/112779898732931?fref=ts) - YouTube

LULZ!!

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I know mate, a good discussion where I see things different from you..oh f*** me its related to trading. And im not in it to make money.
And it really needs to close higher than my blue line for my buy signal to take effect, otherwise I wouldn't be doing anything with this just yet. Just so you know..

It was a treble top as you anticipated. Ultimately, I think both EUR and AUD are going lower. But I have exited the short in +ve break even for a psychological reset. I exited on the way down from the peak rather than on the way up to the peak as my strategy calls for. I have to give myself a bit of slapping for poor discipline and exposing myself to uncalled for risks.

Perhaps I need to learn some p&f to see the treble top as you did. Although my strategy would have saved me from being wrong if not for the poor discipline. I am unscathed from the error, but the punishment is to watch the missed out pips on the downward move.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

well that made my morning!

a t2w community ceo feedback thread on constitution matters getting hijacked by trading chat, now that's what you call lulz!! top stuff!

 

[malaguti]

It was a treble top as you anticipated. Ultimately, I think both EUR and AUD are going lower. But I have exited the short in +ve break even for a psychological reset. I exited on the way down from the peak rather than on the way up to the peak as my strategy calls for. I have to give myself a bit of slapping for poor discipline and exposing myself to uncalled for risks.

Perhaps I need to learn some p&f to see the treble top as you did. Although my strategy would have saved me from being wrong if not for the poor discipline. I am unscathed from the error, but the punishment is to watch the missed out pips on the downward move.

Hey Joe, actually no you dont need to learn P&F
Imagine a forum with threads where we can each give an analysis. I can easily point out the nuances of P&F or we can collaborate etc. It would only take a few posts.
Then we move onto the next trade, etc etc.
Now someone posts something like..
nice one malaguti..P&F rocks..its a scam, malagutis tryimg to sell me something I just dont know what it is right now..a video of sisters getting it on...is english your native language..its a buy (with nothing to back this up..
Do you see my point?
If you want to b*tch and moan and be heard, go down the pub..if you want to encourage discussion please post a chart of your analysis.
Will this encourage Newbies? You bet it will, as they will begin to look at a chart in a different way. Whats the alternative?
We have a forum like this that encourages one thing only..useless pointless drivel just so that i can be a legendary member too. This is what it seems like we're encouraging. Police that, have a constitution that encourages. I cant see anything in these 11 points that will actively encourage the good points.
Anyway, soap box gone..glad you got out a breakeven. Oh and P&F really does rock. It took all of 1 minute to produce that..my mentor will be proud

When I re-read this its almost implying that YOU joe are posting drivel, and you are a legendary member..im not calling out you..im calling out the posts we often get, which add nothing and if anything take away from what could be a great forum. I have 130 posts but why should that count against me? I dont need gold stars for posting crap. Give me a gold star for pointing out something like my analysis for example that came up trumps. That might change the game a little and bring good analysis back.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

When I re-read this its almost implying that YOU joe are posting drivel

I do post drivel from others' perspective. My views and ideas are strange and alien to people. This is why originally I came into this thread to complain because I knew I will be one of the first ones to be hit by the new constitution when it comes into effect. I am doing a pre-emptive strike before they take me down.

P&F charts were said by many to be interesting. The fact you were able to predict the treble tops using that suggests it has great utility. So it is definitely something I must look into.

 

[the hare]

I cant see anything in these 11 points that will actively encourage the good points.
Anyway, soap box gone..glad you got out a breakeven. Oh and P&F really does rock. It took all of 1 minute to produce that..my mentor will be proud

It's been argued previously that the "law of attraction" is in operation here at t2w, and its a viewpoint that I partially agree with.

When people post good content, members respond appropriately. That content could be educational, or even a request for assistance or clarification when it's clear the person asking for help has put in some effort beforehand. There's usually a little banter, but in general, these threads result in good contributions.

Conversely, bad content generates the problems we are currently experiencing. Unmanaged advertising spam, solicitation, poor quality articles supplied by vendors with only one agenda. All of those things result in the opposite behavior from members. It's been pointed previously that often members will engage in both type of behavior.

I agree, there's nothing in Steve's 11 point constitution that encourages good behavior. Old hands see the absurdity in what's being presented, new rules identical to existing rules, contradictory rules, un enforceable rules, completely subjective rules that the individual members of the t2w team may well interpret completely differently. If the 'law of attraction' is in operation (and the negative feedback and lulz generated by Steve's constitution so far seams to indicate it is) then things are likely to get worse.

Ironically, this thread provides all of the answers to Steve's problems. Beginner Joe quite correctly states that t2w needs to understand the payoff for members. Dash correctly points out that there's a shortage of experienced traders, and an abundance of inexperienced people, and vendors. Steve should ask himself where the experienced people went and why they went. It's an answer that he probably won't be able to reconcile with his world view, but some day when it's too late the penny will drop (Dash already answered this particular question, but no doubt it wasn't read or ignored on the grounds of spelling, grammar or style)

80% of the current problems could be sorted out by removing links in vendor badges, removing the PM feature from vendors, and taking a zero tolerance policy to obvious solicitation (which might need a bit of training, but there's at least one mod who knows the score)

The other problems are a far more serious issue, because they involve people and ego's, and to be frank, even when you fix that, you end up with a business model that's fundamentally flawed in today's environment.

If I where Mr Sharky I'd probably be looking to do some sort of deal with a team who are already doing it right, and that's offered as a constructive suggestion in everyone's best interests.

 

[Steve]

There's a lot to reply to since yesterday so i'll deal with the posts in order to make sure I don't miss anything and to avoid an overly long post covering lots of things.

From wackypete2..

"How does #4 apply to the "For Sale & Wanted" forum? I'm guessing members can sell their collection of trading books but not a subscription to their website. One issue related to this is when people post in that forum it shows up on the "New Posts" and initially looks like someone just spamming"

The for sale and wanted forum is unaffected where it is members clearly selling things they own but no longer want. As you rightly say, if they were using it to sell subscriptions and the like then that's a different matter.

How will you relate #1 to #5. There will always be vendors joining up to sell or spam something. Sometimes it may not be clear right away and the members here call them out, sometimes rather colorfully. I don't think you want to negate that altogether but many times being forceful gets the message across.

I don't want to negate this and nor do I want to stop these people being called out. When you look back over the many posts on this subject there have been some excellent comments made. Powerful, persuasive and to the point yet calm and measured in their delivery. In life as well as on any forum, there is little progress made as a result of screaming and shouting and making potentially libellous ond defamatory remarks.

There has been far too much of this here and it gets in the way. Take the recent exchange about IG Index, the initial post accused them of scamming and then there was speculation about how long the thread would be allowed to run.

As it turned out there was much more to that than initially met the eye but the point is that the language used could have led to the usual threats against us and ultimately the deletion of the posts or even the thread depending on what we were advised to do.

This is annoying for everyone. It makes it look like we are in cahoots with the firm involved (which we are not), it makes us look weak (which is a matter of opinion but we have our policy and that's that really) but most importantly it means that the very information that might have protected people is lost.

I can't say that a change of language means that nothing will ever get deleted but it would go a very long way to making our defence against these claims much more robust.

 

[Steve]

There's a lot of ridiculing in this thread

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/155528-good-true-2-per-day.html

But can you really say it's unjustified or indeed unfair? It was probably slightly upsetting for the OP but it probably caused him to look again and what he was doing and start questioning it. Perhaps he was even saved from more losses by this somewhat cruel treatment.

I can see how some people would say this was contrary to Article 1 of the Constitution.

I have read that whole thread and could not find anything particularly unjustified or unfair. The participants were exchanging views and opinions in a sensible and mature manner and it did not degenerate into attacks on each other like so many of them have done in the past. There's no serious conflict here with Article 1 as I see it operationally.

 

[Steve]

Most stuff sounds good .......can we truly then get rid of all the non trading cr*p ?

I dont give a monkeys what someones favourite film is .....and every other piece of tedious minutae that gets posted here at T2W that is not focussed 100% on trading

The vendor statement is also still pretty vague but Iets role with it ........still think Vendors s/be allowed to sell directly ....just give them an area to peddle their wares

and I also think we need a Newbie thread probation area so they prove themselves before appearing on the main areas ....we then can perhaps chose to filter these if we want ?

thanks
N

I'm not done with vendors yet. They will be subject to a separate set of rules that will have to be more detailed in the light of some of the things they have been up to (and will no doubt continue to get up to unless we find a way through it).

Good idea on the newbie probation thread. We have been working on a complete rethink about newbies and how we get them/deal with them/keep them etc so i'll add that to the ideas list, thanks.

 

[pboyles]

I'm not done with vendors yet. They will be subject to a separate set of rules that will have to be more detailed in the light of some of the things they have been up to (and will no doubt continue to get up to unless we find a way through it).

Good idea on the newbie probation thread. We have been working on a complete rethink about newbies and how we get them/deal with them/keep them etc so i'll add that to the ideas list, thanks.

Vendors should definitely not be allowed to PM members, that is a very useful resource for them and allows them to groom victims out of public view.

 

[Steve]

does this mean finally the end of the vendor used homepage linking? or at least the vendor badge/homepage link through will be decoupled? else rule 5 is a meaningless sham.

Are there any compelling reasons why we should not do what LMcQ suggests?

 

[Steve]

"We don't want it here unless it is about Trading."

many forum communities have an off topic area for banter on any topic outside the core subject. so you intend to do away with the t2w foyer?? :-0

No, I agree with the need for a foyer (or whatever it is called) and would never endorse getting rid of it. I'll amend the relevant section to make sure the existence of the foyer is covered. Maybe i'll make that the missing number 12!

 

[the hare]

Are there any compelling reasons why we should not do what LMcQ suggests?

Yes, you'll lose traffic from vendors exploiting this feature

And then you'll lose traffic from members exposing vendor fraud

And then you'll lose traffic from the controversy this stuff usually results in

Vendors may be unhappy with the decision, they want click throughs too

These arguments are based on the assumption that you want traffic (most websites do) I also assume you want vendors to participate (the sites content in terms of articles has been 100% focused on vendor provided articles for the last few years) and you yourself have already stated you want inclusion rather than exclusion.

This is the point I'm trying to make Steve. It's pointless you asking us these questions because we don't know your priorities, plans, vision or objectives. Only YOU can weigh up the factors and take the decision.

For heavens sake, why not simply publish your vision, tell people how you want things to be, and then maybe people can help you realize that vision with practical suggestions.

 

[Steve]

From Shakone..

"These seem to start from the point of view of what you think needs to be done, to make a nice atmosphere, and not from what the community wants or thinks needs to be done, nor what is helpful in educating traders. Did the community ask for a vendor cesspit or not? If they did, is this going to happen? If not, then I'm confident something was requested to be done about vendors, and so a list of 11 guidelines for vendors might have been wiser to start with, since that's where at least one of the main problems resides."

Yes you are correct, the vendor thing has been rumbling on for far too long now and I should have dealt with it sooner.

But what exactly is a vendor cesspit? Can you point me in the direction of a site that effectively uses this approach? It has also been said that I have ruled out a cesspit and that I have backed myself into a corner. I can do what is required and if that means changing a position for the right reasons then i'll do it. One thing that is certain, whatever the final position about vendors, there will be someone who thinks it is wrong. That's no excuse for inaction or a lack of definitive action and we're going to have to get this nailed so we can move on from it.

"Vendors can join but they can't sell." What does this mean? To me it means nothing. Absolutely nothing. They are either members, or they are vendors, which by definition means they are selling. Everything they do - as a vendor - is selling. "

Thanks for making this point.

"You say posting at T2Win is a privilege. Why? There are dozens of trading forums which require just an email to sign up, what kind of special privilege is this? We're providing you with clicks, content, a community, making you money, helping newer members for free. Perhaps it is a privilege to have good members."

It most certainly is a privilege to have good members.

 

[the hare]

Can you point me in the direction of a site that effectively uses this approach?

Forex factory adopted this approach.

 

[pboyles]

Forex Factory also have a restriction in place on thread starting. You need to make a certain number of posts (is it 50) before you can start a thread. That would get rid of the daily crap we see now from the Chinese spammers telling us about films and TV programs.

 

[pboyles]

Forex Factory also have a restriction in place on thread starting. You need to make a certain number of posts (is it 50) before you can start a thread. That would get rid of the daily crap we see now from the Chinese spammers telling us about films and TV programs.

...like this crap, there must be 20 of these a day now.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-software/161448-big-bang-theory-season-6-episode-6-a.html

 

[Steve]

Do you think it works? I thought I had read somewhere here that it was fraught with problems? Can't you have a vendors area but still allow wider posting subject to very strict rules?

There is of course a very strong argument saying that any vendor post will be geared to selling something, however subtle this might be. Even answering questions about a product or service could be construed as ultimately leading to a sale of that product or service but surely we can draw a line somewhere?

This is one of the points i'm struggling with and one of the reasons I said that vendors would still be allowed to post in the main forums. Despite what might be thought, there was no lobbying, I just could not see why a vendor could not be a member and make posts accordingly.

This has happened in the past before we became so embroiled in the current situation. So isn't there scope for both? A commercial area like FF but with some permissions to post more widely, monitored by some 'vendor policing' for want of a better term?

 

[Steve]

Forex Factory also have a restriction in place on thread starting. You need to make a certain number of posts (is it 50) before you can start a thread. That would get rid of the daily crap we see now from the Chinese spammers telling us about films and TV programs.

Thanks pb, a good point.

 

[isatrader]

Have you considered anything like on Big Mikes Trading Forum where the more serious traders have an elite section of the forum that they pay a one off fee of $50 to be able to access? They then have regular webinars from decent traders and popular members and have more advanced threads where they share ideas etc. For example today FuturesTrader71 is doing a Q&A webinar. The webinars are saved in the elite section and can be accessed at anytime in the future.