Capitalism

[Atilla]

True story from my Neighbour down the road this morning. Just had a chat.

She's is in her mid-fifties and is in the process of losing her father 76 to diabetes. His just come home from hospital to die apparently. She has rheumatism in the fingers (confirmed by doctors). She's been working in an assembly line production (didn't delve too deeply here) for the last 14 years.

Her company has been bought out by an American parent and she has been told her performance is lacking. She's been watched and put on some plan.

She's a spritely cheerful spirit and says she thinks it's because they have introduced a new system and she's not able to cope at the speed they want her to.

She's added that they have been pressuring and knocking her down coupled with her health and home issues she's feeling stressed and depressed. I believe her as she almost broke into tears at one point with moistening eyes and quivering lip.
She could be Shakespearan performer, but I'd doubt it.

Here is the point. Instead of offering her redundancy for 14 years (which she said she'll accept - at 1 or 2 weeks per annum we are talking 3/6 months salary) they are looking at dismissal on failure to perform adequately or make her life uncomfortable so she gets to leave on her own account.



Now as a capitalist one could say - she needs to go and job given to a school leaver at probably min-wage on apprentice levels who may work faster.

One could say the firm is not to be her social support.

One could say she needs to go so the firm can make money and offer jobs to other people.

One could say a lot of things to support the entrepreneur and indeed so would I.


The right thing it seems to me is to simply thank her for 14 years service and offer 3 months salary explaining the sad reasons. Can't imagine she's on a big wod of money.


But hey that's the life of the pure capitalist. :|

 

[mike.]

This is where a strong union in the workplace comes into force, say what you will about unions, but they would never let this happen.

 

[Fugazsy]

True story from my Neighbour down the road this morning. Just had a chat.

She's is in her mid-fifties and is in the process of losing her father 76 to diabetes. His just come home from hospital to die apparently. She has rheumatism in the fingers (confirmed by doctors). She's been working in an assembly line production (didn't delve too deeply here) for the last 14 years.

Her company has been bought out by an American parent and she has been told her performance is lacking. She's been watched and put on some plan.

She's a spritely cheerful spirit and says she thinks it's because they have introduced a new system and she's not able to cope at the speed they want her to.

She's added that they have been pressuring and knocking her down coupled with her health and home issues she's feeling stressed and depressed. I believe her as she almost broke into tears at one point with moistening eyes and quivering lip.
She could be Shakespearan performer, but I'd doubt it.

Here is the point. Instead of offering her redundancy for 14 years (which she said she'll accept - at 1 or 2 weeks per annum we are talking 3/6 months salary) they are looking at dismissal on failure to perform adequately or make her life uncomfortable so she gets to leave on her own account.



Now as a capitalist one could say - she needs to go and job given to a school leaver at probably min-wage on apprentice levels who may work faster.

One could say the firm is not to be her social support.

One could say she needs to go so the firm can make money and offer jobs to other people.

One could say a lot of things to support the entrepreneur and indeed so would I.


The right thing it seems to me is to simply thank her for 14 years service and offer 3 months salary explaining the sad reasons. Can't imagine she's on a big wod of money.


But hey that's the life of the pure capitalist. :|

yes sad.......

 

[Pat494]

The Cadbury story is another tragedy of a great company with a philanthropic past that was asset stripped by Kraft recently. Broken promises of not closing down factories, sacking workers etc. Feeble UK politicians let the best UK companies be asset stripped. Were there back-handers to UK politicians to let it happen ? One can but wonder. Did they do a Blair and sell out ? Possibly.. No wonder the front benches are full of smirking fat cats. They are alright Jack.

In NZ they have a sensible law to keep the controlling interest in companies in NZ hands. Foreigners can only buy a minority share and so the best companies are kept for NZ employees with their proud standards.

 

[Pat494]

The average Greek Joe will never know what dirty deals are done by their politicians and others. We can only guess...................


Lass sie Kuchen essen say the Capitalists

 

[Fugazsy]

individualism needs to be placed first for the interest of the community as a all.....the problem nowadays is a bit of a mess and there are many personal conflicts of interests instead of looking after the one who needs the most......(old, sick, children....)

Maybe one day we will get there...is it up to us, we should not rely on others.....

Maybe country like Canada e Australia are getting closer.....

 

[Pat494]

If the basic problems ( capitalism/socialism/democracy etc. ) were solved then maybe there would not be much movement and life would be much safer but duller politically.

 

[Fugazsy]

there are some good new movements coming up, see Movimento 5 Stelle in Italy and similar movements is Spain, power needs to given back to people, people has to decide what is right for them and make it happening.

 

[Pat494]

there are some good new movements coming up, see Movimento 5 Stelle in Italy and similar movements is Spain, power needs to given back to people, people has to decide what is right for them and make it happening.

Can " The People " really make the right decisions ? I doubt that they are infallible. The Greek referendum is putting the burden of decision onto others it seems to me.

 

[Atilla]

The Cadbury story is another tragedy of a great company with a philanthropic past that was asset stripped by Kraft recently. Broken promises of not closing down factories, sacking workers etc. Feeble UK politicians let the best UK companies be asset stripped. Were there back-handers to UK politicians to let it happen ? One can but wonder. Did they do a Blair and sell out ? Possibly.. No wonder the front benches are full of smirking fat cats. They are alright Jack.

In NZ they have a sensible law to keep the controlling interest in companies in NZ hands. Foreigners can only buy a minority share and so the best companies are kept for NZ employees with their proud standards.

Other factors to consider here are;

- Economies of scale
- Raw purchasing power consolidation to obtain bulk discounting
- Buying out competition
- Efficiency in distribution chain

They are all terms but not necessarily healthy ones for the economy.

There is also vertical and horizontal integration.

Object is to reduce costs and competition and increase price. I can't envisage why anyone would choose to pass cost savings on to consumers if there is no competition.

There is predatory pricing - to force competitors into loss or difficulties and then approach company with buy outs. Very difficult to determine if it is competitive or predatory pricing. Prices fall in the short term only to rise later.

Very difficult to prove in court of law.

If we don't have competition we stunt innovation.

If we have high barriers to entry we don't get startups.


I think this link describes it quite well.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

 

[tomorton]

Hi Atilla - Your compassion for your neighbour is a great virtue. I also would feel cheery if the employer were to do the right thing - but I don't want to be the one paying for it.

The role of the group / company / CEO / production manager / team leader / production line employee is to maximise profit. The job of government is to regulate and moderate the effects of this driver to the general benefit of the UK population and the specific protection of an employee from inequitable treatment, through suitable legislation.

It would be no consolation to your neighbour, her colleagues, me or the UK if the company were to ignore its role and lose its orders to a competitor in another town / region / country.

I hope she is treated well but if the employer breaks the law in the UK at least there is adequate legal recourse.

 

[Atilla]

Hi Atilla - Your compassion for your neighbour is a great virtue. I also would feel cheery if the employer were to do the right thing - but I don't want to be the one paying for it.

The role of the group / company / CEO / production manager / team leader / production line employee is to maximise profit. The job of government is to regulate and moderate the effects of this driver to the general benefit of the UK population and the specific protection of an employee from inequitable treatment, through suitable legislation.

It would be no consolation to your neighbour, her colleagues, me or the UK if the company were to ignore its role and lose its orders to a competitor in another town / region / country.

I hope she is treated well but if the employer breaks the law in the UK at least there is adequate legal recourse.

Great reply thank you Tomorton,

I can see you in PR and that is indeed an exemplary note.

I advised her to keep an accurate log of her grievances, letters and emails and notes exchanged. Also, to move away from personalising it in terms of my manager never liked me and always had it in for me references. To refer to HR and ask for copy of her contract. Seek assistance as to what her rights are.

What may be obvious recourse to us, doesn't seem to be within her radius of awareness or abilities. One can't see rationalize or be reasonable when stress and depression gets into ones mind and body. Basically, I don't think she will be able to play the game and can see her falling ill and going into depression with bereavement soon.

Either way; 3-4 months salary isn't going to change her life but being out of work likely to. She should go on some evening classes, new training or seek new career perhaps become a carer her self as there seems to be much demand for it here and I can see she'd enjoy that with the elderly as she is chatty. She'll talk her depression into you if you're not careful.


I can't help thinking though if she gets legal advise; she'll get further wound up and solicitors will take 90% of what ever is due to her. Perhaps I'm being cynical


Great post and advice. Your best ever imo.

I'll be sure to print out and give her a copy.

 

[NVP]

True story from my Neighbour down the road this morning. Just had a chat.

She's is in her mid-fifties and is in the process of losing her father 76 to diabetes. His just come home from hospital to die apparently. She has rheumatism in the fingers (confirmed by doctors). She's been working in an assembly line production (didn't delve too deeply here) for the last 14 years.

Her company has been bought out by an American parent and she has been told her performance is lacking. She's been watched and put on some plan.

She's a spritely cheerful spirit and says she thinks it's because they have introduced a new system and she's not able to cope at the speed they want her to.

She's added that they have been pressuring and knocking her down coupled with her health and home issues she's feeling stressed and depressed. I believe her as she almost broke into tears at one point with moistening eyes and quivering lip.
She could be Shakespearan performer, but I'd doubt it.

Here is the point. Instead of offering her redundancy for 14 years (which she said she'll accept - at 1 or 2 weeks per annum we are talking 3/6 months salary) they are looking at dismissal on failure to perform adequately or make her life uncomfortable so she gets to leave on her own account.



Now as a capitalist one could say - she needs to go and job given to a school leaver at probably min-wage on apprentice levels who may work faster.

One could say the firm is not to be her social support.

One could say she needs to go so the firm can make money and offer jobs to other people.

One could say a lot of things to support the entrepreneur and indeed so would I.


The right thing it seems to me is to simply thank her for 14 years service and offer 3 months salary explaining the sad reasons. Can't imagine she's on a big wod of money.


But hey that's the life of the pure capitalist. :|

sorry to hear about this Atilla ...............

I think companies are moving more and more to a fear based management environment and telling employees they are lucky to have a job to just shut up and do whatever they are told.......full stop

this is at all levels and even the middle / senior managers that would prefer to manage staff in a more decent/humane way are forced to go with the flow ..or ship out themselves............I havnt really managed large teams for years and thank god for that

ive walked out of my last 2 roles after mega bust ups with the bosses ........I was right on both counts but at the end of the day I walked ....millions cant as they rely on a regular income streams as breadwinners .........i'm a little luckier these days

yes we know what they should do for the lady ..but they wont

N

 

[NVP]

Great reply thank you Tomorton,

I can see you in PR and that is indeed an exemplary note.

I advised her to keep an accurate log of her grievances, letters and emails and notes exchanged. Also, to move away from personalising it in terms of my manager never liked me and always had it in for me references. To refer to HR and ask for copy of her contract. Seek assistance as to what her rights are.

What may be obvious recourse to us, doesn't seem to be within her radius of awareness or abilities. One can't see rationalize or be reasonable when stress and depression gets into ones mind and body. Basically, I don't think she will be able to play the game and can see her falling ill and going into depression with bereavement soon.

Either way; 3-4 months salary isn't going to change her life but being out of work likely to. She should go on some evening classes, new training or seek new career perhaps become a carer her self as there seems to be much demand for it here and I can see she'd enjoy that with the elderly as she is chatty. She'll talk her depression into you if you're not careful.


I can't help thinking though if she gets legal advise; she'll get further wound up and solicitors will take 90% of what ever is due to her. Perhaps I'm being cynical


Great post and advice. Your best ever imo.

I'll be sure to print out and give her a copy.

evidence,evidence,evidence is a great idea.......... but in truth we've all fallen foul of not recording and documenting things in detail as we always believe that people will do the decent thing and we will not get to such situations

my wife is now in her 12th month of arguing with her employer regarding unfair changes to her job description and not being paid for a job way above her payscale ...........we have all the documentation in place and are fully in the right.........but its still like pushing Sh*t uphill....and she has to work there as well ...god knows why as I keep telling her .........but she likes to work and in truth knows the next company will have its own demons

my best wishes to your friend and I hope she can recover from this and go from strength to strength elsewhere

N

 

[Atilla]

sorry to hear about this Atilla ...............

I think companies are moving more and more to a fear based management environment and telling employees they are lucky to have a job to just shut up and do whatever they are told.......full stop

this is at all levels and even the middle / senior managers that would prefer to manage staff in a more decent/humane way are forced to go with the flow ..or ship out themselves............I havnt really managed large teams for years and thank god for that

ive walked out of my last 2 roles after mega bust ups with the bosses ........I was right on both counts but at the end of the day I walked ....millions cant as they rely on a regular income streams as breadwinners .........i'm a little luckier these days

yes we know what they should do for the lady ..but they wont

N

Top man and pretty much what I would do but I always leave on good terms. Speak my mind re: work, but leave on false pretense rather than pissed off one.

Been contracting since 96 so well used to 1 week/month notice contracts. Never depend on any employer. More the other way round as it happens. I always make my self useful and run the business like it's my own. Yes I am a cocky confident git, robust and resilient. Indestructible a little like gold. But not everyone can be super me :clap:.

I think high spirits and morale make labourers more productive and ready to sacrifice personal favours when asked. It's tapping into that heart, mind and soul of ones employees and team members. Bit of respect and decency goes a long way and costs nothing.

I've always thought it crazy that our own elite management could not manage labour relations in the midlands but the Japanese think they are great, hard working staff in their factories. No issues with labour unions and Japanese management.

Anyone heard of any dispute???

Nope thought not?

 

[0007]

I think high spirits and morale make labourers more productive and ready to sacrifice personal favours when asked. It's tapping into that heart, mind and soul of ones employees and team members. Bit of respect and decency goes a long way and costs nothing.
That's how the military used to run in this country and produced outstanding results – don't know if it's the same nowadays.


I've always thought it crazy that our own elite management could not manage labour relations in the midlands but the Japanese think they are great, hard working staff in their factories. No issues with labour unions and Japanese management.

Anyone heard of any dispute???

Nope thought not?
Speaks volumes for the old British management and politics in the UK car industry doesn't it?

.

 

[hhiusa]

We have stopped talking about capitalism and started talking about sob stories. Regardless of how you may feel, self-interest and wealth accumulation is the purpose of capitalism.

Adam Smith
Capitalism is thus a system of social organization by which private money-making (the build-up of capital, of “herds” of money) is its chief end. Adam Smith defended this way of organizing human affairs, not just on pragmatic terms, but on moral ones, upending millennia of religion-based admonitions that one should aver selfishness.

George Reisman (Capitalism: A Treatise on Economics)
capitalism is characterized by saving and capital accumulation, exchange and money, financial self-interest and the profit motive, the freedoms of economic competition and economic inequality.

Dictionary

“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
- Milton Friedman

 

[Pat494]

Another major problem with Capitalism is that some people will do almost anything for the greed of money or power.

On a minor level I see Walmart is selling cakes now topped off with the ISL black flag !!

The arms dealers are responsible for the flood of weapons into The Middle East/Africa and other hot spots. True capitalism doesn't count the cost in human lives, it just soaks up the money regardless of who gets shot.

 

[0007]

Another major problem with Capitalism is that some people will do almost anything for the greed of money or power.

............ The name Tony Blair springs to mind!

 

[hhiusa]

Another major problem with Capitalism is that some people will do almost anything for the greed of money or power.

On a minor level I see Walmart is selling cakes now topped off with the ISL black flag !!

The arms dealers are responsible for the flood of weapons into The Middle East/Africa and other hot spots. True capitalism doesn't count the cost in human lives, it just soaks up the money regardless of who gets shot.

You keep saying "true capitalism". No such difference exists between true capitalism and capitalism. SInce you are obviously not a capitalist or a Conservative, it is a good thing that you live in a more socialist country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYeYPcougmA&feature=youtu.be