Can you be long and short at same time?

[Atilla]

thats all im trying to say

Was beginning to wonder but I'm so glad you've clarified that Flash. :cheesy:

 

[numbertea]

There seems to be zero use of the long and short at once method. Except for your psychological state it is a total waste. No arbitrage possibility there either, a buy is a buy, whether to go long or cover a short, it will take you just as long to get filled. And the same goes for the short side. I see no benefit.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Crazy idea. Going long and short at the same time just means you pay twice as much for the spread and commission. Its like sitting on the fence but paying for it. Either stay out of the market or take a direction.

There are 3 ways to trade:
1) Long
2) Short
3) Neutral

Naturally it has its uses, ie, a long term long and a short term short for example using the same instrument but being long and short on the same time frame on the same instrument does not make any sense whatsoever. The only people that would promote this way of trading are brokers as they are the one's who truly profit in this scenario.

Lee

 

[the hare]

Crazy idea. Going long and short at the same time just means you pay twice as much for the spread and commission. The only people that would promote this way of trading are brokers as they are the one's who truly profit in this scenario.

Lee

Which is why there's never a week goes by without someone in their employ promoting this particular scam on one forum or another.

This week its the zoos turn

 

[Liquid validity]

...........

 

[Rambo35]

I follow solely usdjpy on m1 timeframe,
If i take long term long position at bottom of range market,
Can you take short positions while markets take small downmoves within the range?
(I use mt4 with Alpari)

Any advice would be great
Greg

On the MT4 (depending on your broker) it is possible to have long as well as short positions in the same currency pair.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

On the MT4 (depending on your broker) it is possible to have long as well as short positions in the same currency pair.

yes but its completely pointless and you lose the cost of the spread. Please read the thread and see what we are saying. I just find this asmazing that so many cant see this

 

[new_trader]

yes but its completely pointless and you lose the cost of the spread. Please read the thread and see what we are saying. I just find this asmazing that so many cant see this

The majority in this forum can't see or understand the obvious, it is a human trait. They seek validation of their ideas via consensus rather than sound reasoning. If the majority of people think an idea is good, then the conclusion most people reach is, it must be a good idea. It never ceases to amaze me.

I am waiting to see it demonstrated (in this thread I expect) on an OB n OSold tops and bots...or whatever...

Maybe on a day like this:

 

[x4x]

The majority in this forum can't see or understand the obvious, it is a human trait. They seek validation of their ideas via consensus rather than sound reasoning. If the majority of people think an idea is good, then the conclusion most people reach is, it must be a good idea. It never ceases to amaze me.

Going Long and Short the same market, at the same amount, at the same time can be advantageous, as it's about positioning, not about immediate profits - sometimes you have to look at the longer game.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Going Long and Short the same market, at the same amount, at the same time can be advantageous, as it's about positioning, not about immediate profits - sometimes you have to look at the longer game.

Im sure we are all waiting to hear how this can be advantageous to us. If you are one long and one short you are flat. If you are two long and one short you are one long net.There is no way this can be of any use,even during news it cannot help and could be very dangerous.

 

[x4x]

Im sure we are all waiting to hear how this can be advantageous to us. If you are one long and one short you are flat. If you are two long and one short you are one long net.There is no way this can be of any use,even during news it cannot help and could be very dangerous.

Again, you're only thinking in terms of profit, not positioning in the market.

 

[new_trader]

Going Long and Short the same market, at the same amount, at the same time can be advantageous, as it's about positioning, not about immediate profits - sometimes you have to look at the longer game.

This is impossible to do in the same DMA futures account.

I think it has been mentioned that it can be valid if trading different time horizons, eg/ I might go long a trade on the SPX500 using my Spread-betting account because I plan to hold it for an advance over a few weeks, whilst at (almost) the same time I might take a short 'scalp' on the ES in my DMA futures account.

 

[DionysusToast]

yes but its completely pointless and you lose the cost of the spread. Please read the thread and see what we are saying. I just find this asmazing that so many cant see this

It is not pointless. At a stretch, I would say that I do this in a roundabout way, I park money in ETFs and some of those are correlated to US/European markets. I day trade US/Euro futures and whilst not the same instrument, my day trades are sometimes in the opposite direction to my long term holdings.

So - you could have long term positions and at the same time scalp the same instrument.

The issues are:

- anyone that good wouldn't be asking about it here
- anyone that good would have multiple accounts to do it in
- anyone that good would not be using MT4 with Alpari

So - whilst I do think there are scenarios where a good trader might do it, I think the chances that the OP actually needs to do it or would benefit from it are zero.

 

[x4x]

The EUR/JPY is down on all time frames except Daily - I have a Daily support level at 127.00 - 127.10. The market came to that level overnight and bounced. I went long 127.445 / SL:127.28. It came up to 127.90 where I have 4H & 1H lower S/R. I closed half my position.
I had no short signal, so continue to hold my half position long.
It then comes up to 30M upper resistance @ 128.15 - a 30 minute close above this level, would get me thinking it might start reversing up in the longer term. It closed 4 points higher. I then got a sell signal, so I sold 1 position at 128.16 / SL 128.405 - it came back to 4H & 1H support - I closed half my position.

So I'm now long and short the same market, at the same value at the same time - I'm not profiting any further, but I already have profited and have NO risk on ether position. I can still jump in and out the market if I choose, or just wait until one position gets taken out for no loss and take it from there.

You may not agree, but I feel that my positional play out ways the craving for immediate profit - I can relax and go to the gym with two great positions established.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

The EUR/JPY is down on all time frames except Daily - I have a Daily support level at 127.00 - 127.10. The market came to that level overnight and bounced. I went long 127.445 / SL:127.28. It came up to 127.90 where I have 4H & 1H lower S/R. I closed half my position.
I had no short signal, so continue to hold my half position long.
It then comes up to 30M upper resistance @ 128.15 - a 30 minute close above this level, would get me thinking it might start reversing up in the longer term. It closed 4 points higher. I then got a sell signal, so I sold 1 position at 128.16 / SL 128.405 - it came back to 4H & 1H support - I closed half my position.

So I'm now long and short the same market, at the same value at the same time - I'm not profiting any further, but I already have profited and have NO risk on ether position. I can still jump in and out the market if I choose, or just wait until one position gets taken out for no loss and take it from there.

You may not agree, but I feel that my positional play out ways the craving for immediate profit - I can relax and go to the gym with two great positions established.

but you dont have a position,you are flat,whats the point. Why not just exit the first trade and save the spreads.

 

[x4x]

Yes I'm flat in terms of profit, but as I keep saying, I have two good positions - one long at the bottom of the (European) day in agreement with the daily trend and one short at the top of the day in agreement with the 1H & 4H trends. It's not costing me anything to hold, so I will wait to see if the market shows its hand, and then I'll add position/s accordingly.

I've been to the gym and the market is still at the same level as I left it - at the 1H & 4H S/R zone - I don't want to close and then try to re-enter middle market - I'd much rather hold my positions until I get an idea of where it's going.

 

[Hoggums]

Come on guys I thought you knew the first rule of Trading for Losers:

Rule #1: If you haven't closed the trade then the loss isn't real.

Holding a long and short is just for losers who can't realise a loss in their account. They think because the trade is still running, even though it's showing a loss it's not real so I will flatten my position with an opposite trade and wait until it's in profit again.

All this means is that you now have 2 trades that could make a loss instead of 1.


Close the damn trade and clear your head. Having 2 opposite trades just means that you don't have a system and you won't think objectively about how to close either position.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Yes I'm flat in terms of profit, but as I keep saying, I have two good positions - one long at the bottom of the (European) day in agreement with the daily trend and one short at the top of the day in agreement with the 1H & 4H trends. It's not costing me anything to hold, so I will wait to see if the market shows its hand, and then I'll add position/s accordingly.

I've been to the gym and the market is still at the same level as I left it - at the 1H & 4H S/R zone - I don't want to close and then try to re-enter middle market - I'd much rather hold my positions until I get an idea of where it's going.

oh come on man this is comical,you dont have a trade in place,how can this possibly help you,your flat so theres no point whatsoever.your just giving the spreads to the broker. if your waiting to see what develops,then why not have no positions and enter as and when it suits.What happens when the market spikes on news and then retraces,you could be seriously screwed.Think about it,see your wrong and give up on it. please dont take this the wrong way,I am genuinely trying to help, we all do stuff like this in our early days. Good luck

 

[x4x]

You've been around a few years and yet you're still stuck on watching profits, if you don't get the advantage gained from POSITIONING, that's fine with me, I don't need to waste my time trying to convince you.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

You've been around a few years and yet you're still stuck on watching profits, if you don't get the advantage gained from POSITIONING, that's fine with me, I don't need to waste my time trying to convince you.

dear me wheres tha advantage at any stage,you are flat.However you do it it will cost you two spreads to enter at the point you intended. Positioning by taking trades one in each direction,thats a new one