Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?

[Gardan]

1, What are the best training courses available for learning Charting/Money Management/building a System ,that experienced traders went on when they were learning? are there any courses in the north of the county?

2, Are there any experienced traders who might allow a newbie to sit with them for a day or two,to allow them to see how they trade. This is something I would Love to do and believe would be priceless to a newbie.

3, Do traders have any thoughts on who are the good guys-gals /bad guys-gals to watch for on this site ( I appoligise in advance if people think this one may be a bit ambiguous, who knows?)

4, Have any of the experienced traders been on T2W courses and whata ya tink?
( I have looked at reviews section of this site but would rather hear it from the "horses mouth" so to speak.

5, Any views/help experienced traders may think is relevant to above.

Just a Thought!!!!!

 

[kevin546]

TraderGuy

Yes I agree regarding your comments, however my own reference related to the sections on risk and expectation where Tharp has advanced this work from his earlier book. But I do agree it was only this aspect that I felt was of real benefit from the day trading book I just felt it may have been of interest to know this area has been re-visited by Tharp.

 

[SOCRATES]

Part 2A
#####

Dave JB,

following on from the previous post we are going to talk about tuition, because obviously as a professional lecturer in a science topic I am sure you will find it interesting.

I have a reputation for ferocity. My ferocity is not malicious. The root cause of my ferocity is because I care.
My ferocity is the effect of that cause. I care about my students and ex students. This is because I am devoted to the pursuit of excellence.

I am not interested in what is pedestrian or mediocre. I expect properly mentored people to succeed.
I do not like failure. I will not and cannot abide people who do not have drive, who do not beaver.

What happens is that in ordinary "civilian life" (because the markets consitute an endless war for profits) people are skilful in devising all sorts of wheezes to using as little drive as possible, just to "get by", or to retain the "status quo", "not to rock the boat", "make waves", and all these phrases used in workplaces where people congregate or cooperate on a daily basis in a salaried world.

This subjugation of real drive is very detrimental to the newbie, the aspiring new trader. In the "civilian world" everyone tries to do as little as possible. Go to the Council Offices, or the Police, or the Emergency Dept., or the Casualty Dept., in major hospitals, and you will immediately observe that the "can do" spirit is moribund, and you will understand what I mean, notwithstanding the fact that there are people who do spendid jobs that benefit the public greatly.

But what I am attempting to illustrate that the world of trading is not a cosy one like the one ordinary people are normally accustomed to, and have grown familiar with. Here there is no priviledge, no favour to be curried (curried !), no excuses, no wheezes, no SKYVING tolerated. This is because markets are professionally driven in pursuit of profits, not gongs.

As a consequence of the above, LOITERING, DITHERING and SKYVING are not tolerated, because there isn't time, and because the mission is too serious to allow everyone to behave as if they were meandering in a shopping mall, in which for example among other things, if the customer is not satisfied with the goods, FOR WHATEVER REASON, this means JUSTIFIED OR NOT, the customer can complain, make a song and dance, tell fibs, make excuses, get a refund, even perhaps compensation and all this other abuse that people daily take advantage of.

In the markets none of this is tolerated. The client is either right or wrong. Right leads to profits. Wrong leads to losses. There is no fudging. There is no going back. There are no excuses. Here, the customer has to act and be responsible for all his or her actions; complaints, songs and dances, telling of fibs, making of excuses, getting refunds or getting compensation do not come into the equation.

This yes/no world people are not accustomed to. Neilther are they prepared for it. It is a merciless world,cruel, impersonal, relentless, and irrevocable. Of course it delivers information shocks that freak people. It very soon sorts out who's who in the zoo, so to speak. It is not designed to allow just anyone to come along and take money out of it just because it exists and anyone is allowed to participate. More than that is required, much more.

At the very least it requires that anyone venturing into this arena should fully understand and appreciate what it is they are letting themselves in for. In my view the warnings given liberally and plentifully by the regulatory authorities in some measure serve their purpose, because they meet the letter of the law.
The intent is a different matter altogether, because it is only if people fully accept on the basis that they understand the risks is that requirement partly satisfied. I say partly, because the great majority have not a clue as to how markets work, or how they are made to run according to supply and demand.

Supply and demand is what drives prices. This is irrespective of the news, economic indicators, stats, opinions, chit chat or gossip. Liquid markets are liquid because they have participation. It is that liquidity that makes them tradeable. That liquidity is directly linked to the supply and demand schedules within them that serve to drive them.

But none of this is there for your benefit or mine. It is there to maintain order flow and preserve liquidity and for the maintenance of orderly markets. But first of all this, to quote DB Phoenix, is a Biggie ! As a consequence of markets conforming to these criteria we are able to enjoy the fruits of capitalism, within a framework of Democracy. The way that markets work is very intricate and complicated. No one has a ghost's chance in hell of succeeding before all of this is mastered, for starters. More in the next instalment,
I have to go.

 

[axthree]

This thread is most interesting and has parrallels elsewhere.
Socrates, earlier on you mentioned that some people fail to grasp what they are told, in spite of the message being given many times.
I have been one of those people in the past.
Whilst learning to fly I had great difficulty mastering landing, which you may be aware is the most hazardous part of flight.
My instructor had been taught to apply patience and to give the message in many different ways, hoping that at least one way would have the desired effect.
Unlike the market, which only takes my money if I get it wrong, flying will take much more.
Eventually, after one flight he got out and said, "Off you go, one circuit and landing and meet me in the crew room. Don't break it".
I did as required, not perfectly but the aircraft could be used again.
Some weeks later I took a quiet look at his entry in my training record.
It said, "Still hopeless, he knows how but doesn't realise that he knows so sent him solo anyway. I doubt he'll kill himself".
He was quite correct. I did know how.
So much time, so many questions to which I unwittingly knew the answers.
He didn't give up and I suspect neither will you.

 

[Quercus]

Axthree,
On that day, when your instructor let go of the lead, he gave you the opportunity to explore your own mind in terms of freedom! It is after all quite a powerful thing to have your own life entirely in your own hands. A moment never to be forgotten!
Cheers
Quercus

 

[tradesmart]

Gardan - Sorry that you haven't had a straight answer to your original questions after all the posts on this thread, so imho..........

1, What are the best training courses available for learning Charting/Money Management/building a System ,that experienced traders went on when they were learning? are there any courses in the north of the county?

US competition winning trader Tony Oz has a great CD training package that covers aspects that you mention above - highly recommended - see http://www.stocktradingschool.com/dvd.htm (and you won't have to travel....!?)

2, Are there any experienced traders who might allow a newbie to sit with them for a day or two,to allow them to see how they trade. This is something I would Love to do and believe would be priceless to a newbie.

Both Naz and Mr Charts who post on T2W, offer 'realtime' 1-2-1 trader training - it's not quite "priceless" though - ask for a quotation....

3, Do traders have any thoughts on who are the good guys-gals /bad guys-gals to watch for on this site ( I appoligise in advance if people think this one may be a bit ambiguous, who knows?)

Well, watch out for me (run your mouse over the green dot under my avatar to find out why!) also watch out for The Bramble as he sometimes refers to others as "old goats".....and of course give those of an 'inflammatory' nature a wide berth......

4, Have any of the experienced traders been on T2W courses and whata ya tink?
( I have looked at reviews section of this site but would rather hear it from the "horses mouth" so to speak.

I think the reviews on T2W are unbiased and straight from the "horses mouth" (no holds barred...!)

5, Any views/help experienced traders may think is relevant to above.

To learn charting and technical analysis, a good start is to follow ChartMans 'Dow Intraday Charts' threads - you can apply the techniques to any stock/index/commodity

All strictly imho..........

Regards

 

[Gardan]

Tradesmart: Thanks for all above i will check em out.
You look far to middle class to be riding round on a "Broom"
Re: Bramble I kind'er like him too!

axtree: Without a parachute????

 

[tradesmart]

You look far to middle class

Oh my Gawd...!!! - someone has hacked into my profile and made some cruel 'adjustments'.....!
(probably Sharky or Skimbleshanks having a laugh......... )

I'll put it right sometime......

to be riding round on a "Broom"

I've got a 'Nimbus 2000' actually (just like Harry.....)

 

[barjon]

gardan

not sure if it's been mentioned before but a browse through http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=4629 will give you a lot of basic learning about chart reading and Post 337 et seq will give you a good feel for basic trading.

As for good guys/bad guys the reputation square will help (not just tradesmart's green dot ) and you'll soon make up your mind about who is worth listening too by reading their posts. As a general rule, those who suggest they "have the simple answer" don't . The real experts here are very willing to answer your questions and offer advice to help you develop your own trading style but they know it's not simple and that success in the end depends on you developing your own expertise by your own efforts.

good trading

jon

 

[bracke]

SOCRATES

Interesting to read your posts again but in view of what you are saying about the majority of traders/potential traders I am surprised that you are posting.

You know that if you start to post on meaningful aspects of trading you will be subject to the same type of treatment that you received previously and which caused you to cease posting.

I would be delighted to read your posts if they are going to take us forward in our trading abilities but you must be prepared to ignore the insults and avoid being drawn into the situation that occured previously.

It may be that you intend to post only in a general manner rather than on trading specifics, a decision I fully understand.

Regards

bracke

 

[Gardan]

Barjon: Thanks for the link, I have already gone through it and intend to go through again. I agree it is an excellent start for any newbie and thanks to Ftse for all the hard work he put into it. I also agree I will make up my own mind about who the good/bad guys/gals are but as already come out in this thread people have had a little fun with it and I assure you I have had no bad comments(inc PMs) thus far on anybody.
Apart from Oatman who everyone seems to adore?????
I hope it stays this way and maybe keeps the thread fun and Informative at the same time.

 

[Gardan]

FAQ: Sometimes experienced members on T2W get a bit fed up of us newbies asking the same old questions time and time again. I am probably the most annoying after looking at the posts I have posted.

Now I am a veteran member of two whole months I now realise how easy it might of been to search around the site and find the answers I was looking for NOT. Yes I am finding my way round a little better now but it would take me a year to find all the goodies. I am learning to search a little better for answers but I have to admit there is a little buzz when someone answers your question even if it's to tell you off a little," that it's been asked a million times before". I apologise for this but what's a better way?

I thought "WHAT ABOUT A FAQ" thread, brilliant, all the experienced guys/gals could just send us clowns there. I then did a search and found that this had already been suggested last year by JLs483 (obviously some one more clever than me, not hard) but for various reasons it did'nt get off the ground and some thought it might detract from the site.
I have learnt so much in the last two months from you guy's/gal's and yet I have learnt so little. If you help one newbie (me not included,but I would like to be) to be successful I hope you will continue with your unbelievable support.
If we annoy,then ignore us but don't give up on us please.
Thanks

 

[Gardan]

incorrect link

 

[Zenda]

Nice sensible Post -

 

[SOCRATES]

This thread is most interesting and has parrallels elsewhere.
Socrates, earlier on you mentioned that some people fail to grasp what they are told, in spite of the message being given many times.
I have been one of those people in the past.
Whilst learning to fly I had great difficulty mastering landing, which you may be aware is the most hazardous part of flight.
My instructor had been taught to apply patience and to give the message in many different ways, hoping that at least one way would have the desired effect.
Unlike the market, which only takes my money if I get it wrong, flying will take much more.
Eventually, after one flight he got out and said, "Off you go, one circuit and landing and meet me in the crew room. Don't break it".
I did as required, not perfectly but the aircraft could be used again.
Some weeks later I took a quiet look at his entry in my training record.
It said, "Still hopeless, he knows how but doesn't realise that he knows so sent him solo anyway. I doubt he'll kill himself".
He was quite correct. I did know how.
So much time, so many questions to which I unwittingly knew the answers.
He didn't give up and I suspect neither will you.

As you are a flyer, you now know very well what is meant by "holding the attitude".
This does not come to a pilot overnight, many flying hours are required before the
pilot has the ability to relax within a framework that requires intensive multitasking.
This has a very interesting parallel in the profession of trading and dealing.
The multitasking element of the skill in dealing comes with desk hours.
But the ability to multitask itself comes from having a series of realisations.
In "the Journey from the Basement" you will recall how I persisted with the idea
that in order to progress you must have realisations. You have to PUSH your own
envelope, PUSH IT HARD as you can, before these realisations come to you.
If you do not PUSH, (more throttle) you will not achieve realisations. This is because
the arrival of these only occurs when you are ready for them. If you do not GRAFT
you will never have any meaningful ones. When I say "meaningful" I mean only
meaninful to you personally. You may consider the arrrival of realisations as a form
of reward, for having persisted and having done the work.

What you experienced when you were able to achieve your first solo landing led you
to have realisations.

You knew that you knew. That was not enough.

It was only when you had the realisation relative to what you were trying to achieve
did you realise you knew it and could do it all the time. You were PUSHED by your
tutor to do it, hence because you were ready, you achieved it.

In trading and dealing, you have to PUSH YOURSELF ~ only then can you acquire the
reward = the correct realisation.

My namesake said that E = MC2, and I am saying the same thing to you, only that in
your case Effort = More Cash To You.

Kind Regards.

 

[Trader333]

It was Einstein who came up with E = MC squared.


Paul

 

[boy]

 

[SOCRATES]

SOCRATES

Interesting to read your posts again but in view of what you are saying about the majority of traders/potential traders I am surprised that you are posting.

You know that if you start to post on meaningful aspects of trading you will be subject to the same type of treatment that you received previously and which caused you to cease posting.

I would be delighted to read your posts if they are going to take us forward in our trading abilities but you must be prepared to ignore the insults and avoid being drawn into the situation that occured previously.

It may be that you intend to post only in a general manner rather than on trading specifics, a decision I fully understand.

Regards

bracke

Dear Bracke,

I have been very busy these past few weeks with matters that required my attention, that I neglected, and , I would not have minded otherwise but to be faced with a
barrage of insults and threats on top put the lid temporarirly on the can, so to speak.

What I say about the majority of traders is fact. Some are notwithstanding all of it, decent
individuals who are trying hard, whereas others are complete pillocks who only deserve
short shrift of the most blunt and brutal quality, and, in any case, I do not have to take it upon
myself to do it, the markets succeed in delivering the short shrifts they so richly deserve.

None of this is going to stop me posting and I am going to be heard, both by the herd and who is not the herd.

I will continue to help those of you who deserve help. The criteria remain on Ability, Merit and
Conduct. The others are going to get steamrollered. I am determined now to put my attention on a matter that remains unfinished, so follow my posts.

Kind Regards As Usual.

 

[SOCRATES]

It was Einstein who came up with E = MC squared.


Paul

Yes, that's right ! My parents decided to name me Albert, in the hope that I would beaver away
like he did and achieve something.

 

[DaveJB]

Soc,
you won't get all learners to advance at the same pace - with respect don't you think the whole educational establishment has devoted rather a lot of effort to that over the years? Each individual responds differently to different stimuli and styles of teaching - and I assure you that failing in any endeavour carries pain, trading is not very different to Physics at all, one reason why the Institute of Physics includes a special interest group on the Physics of investing!

There is a huge amount of research on how people think and learn, experiments on advancing the learning process take place on extremely large scales - you appear to have discovered what works for you and to now assume that this is 'the' way to learn, that's plain wrong. I'm sorry if that's not entirely accurate, but it's certainly the way it comes across. Your route to profit has served you very well, I'm genuinely pleased for you, but others WILL do it differently.

My objections are based primarily on your response to what was a relatively small amount of pig headedness from a very few of the 20,000 people on here. Many people post here, some more expert than others, weathering far more opposition - 'your' thread was a lecture, effectively, and should have been delivered as such in my view - the facility to run a private thread exists here, this could have been done for your thread so that those you considered offenders could be ejected.

Part of that noise was from people querying why they should accept what you said as true - if you post under a nickname, and nobody has a clue who you are, then it's a sensible precaution to try to ascertain why they should listen to you rather than any of the charlatans so regularly encountered. Now I do think that there's a polite way to do that, and I'd agree that some here go into 'auto-rottweiler' mode as a matter of course, which is unfortunate and can be quite upsetting. These were valid concerns, any sensible reader should satisfy themselves they aren't listening to a lunatic or conman, and if you post in this anonymous manner you do have to understand that there will be a certain amount of opposition.

Paul's right by the way - one of the things about Einstein that I found interesting was that his Nobel prize wasn't for anything in the E=MC^2 line, or Special or General relativity, but for earlier work on the Photoelectric effect... he was famous (at least in Physics circles) well before he did all that bending of spacetime.

Dave