Best Thread Bund Bobl and Schatz Thread

[funk101]

cuotes, thank you. I am familiar with the times, I'm just unclear bout this:

CET -> Central European Time. Is that GMT +2 ? According to "my watch" that's 6 hours head of me? So, if it says 8:00am to 22:00 that means EST -> 2:00am 4:00pm? Not counting the pre/post trading. What are the times that it is most active? I followed it yesterday for the first time. And it had a huge swing around 8:30am EST and had some activity around that time. But overall it was a very sloooow moving day. So, that led me to post my question. What *are* the most active times for this instrument?
Thank you.

 

[shatztrader]

cuotes, thank you. I am familiar with the times, I'm just unclear bout this:

CET -> Central European Time. Is that GMT +2 ? According to "my watch" that's 6 hours head of me? So, if it says 8:00am to 22:00 that means EST -> 2:00am 4:00pm? Not counting the pre/post trading. What are the times that it is most active? I followed it yesterday for the first time. And it had a huge swing around 8:30am EST and had some activity around that time. But overall it was a very sloooow moving day. So, that led me to post my question. What *are* the most active times for this instrument?
Thank you.

US session from 13.20 GMT is the craziest on a bund (schatz could be similar), where I have a feeling that people throw the sizes blindly

 

[cuotes]

I'm confused. What do you mean "what is the practical difference"? One is a 10Y bond future, the other - a 5Y bond future, with all that this entails...

Is this not sufficiently different for you?

Contract Product ID Remaining Term Years Coupon Percent

Euro-Schatz Futures FGBS 1.75 to 2.25 6
Euro-Bobl Futures FGBM 4.5 to 5.5 6
Euro-Bund Futures FGBL 8.5 to 10.5 6
Euro-Buxl® Futures FGBX 24.0 to 35.0 4
CONF Futures CONF 8.0 to 13.0 6

These are the theoretical differences

What I try to distinguish, are the practical ones.
This is to say, e.g. which is more liquid?, do they have top activity at the same time ?, do they react the same to news?, is the volatility the same?, do they change a similar percentage every day?, do they suffer the same level of 'noise'?, which is more choppy?, which is more efficient in terms of comissions? ...

In other words: Which one could offer better opportunities or less risk?

 

[cuotes]

cuotes, thank you. I am familiar with the times, I'm just unclear bout this:

CET -> Central European Time. Is that GMT +2 ? According to "my watch" that's 6 hours head of me? So, if it says 8:00am to 22:00 that means EST -> 2:00am 4:00pm? Not counting the pre/post trading. What are the times that it is most active? I followed it yesterday for the first time. And it had a huge swing around 8:30am EST and had some activity around that time. But overall it was a very sloooow moving day. So, that led me to post my question. What *are* the most active times for this instrument?
Thank you.

Yes. CET is 1 hour ahead of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC). Where UTC = GMT (Greenwich Mean Time), London time. Note that during summer daylight saving time/summer time is observed, and CEST is used instead. That's why now CET=GMT+2.

CET is also called MEZ, and CEST (Central European Summer Time) is also called CEDT or MESZ. Confusing?

What *are* the most active times for this instrument?
From my knowledge the key moments are, talking in New York time (ET):
8.30 am and 10.00 am (sometimes 9.15 am is also important)

And of course, whenever BoE, ECB, Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), treasury Sec or Fed Chairman gives a speech

 

[Martinghoul]

What I try to distinguish, are the practical ones.
This is to say, e.g. which is more liquid?, do they have top activity at the same time ?, do they react the same to news?, is the volatility the same?, do they change a similar percentage every day?, do they suffer the same level of 'noise'?, which is more choppy?, which is more efficient in terms of comissions? ...

In other words: Which one could offer better opportunities or less risk?

I could wax poetic about these contracts, but, really, the answer to all your questions is "it depends".

Specifically, bund's normally probably the most liquid, but I don't think that has to be the case all the time. No, they're not all active at the same time; that would depend on what's going on, etc. No, they don't, but it depends on what sort of news you're referring to. I don't know the answer to the volatility question, 'cause it all depends on what sort of volatility you're interested in. They may change a similar percentage every day or they may not. As to noise, I have no idea. Bund is probably more choppy, IMHO. I don't know, as it depends on what you're trying to achieve and the position you're trying to get into.

Sorry, I can't be more specific, but things would very much depend on a whole raft of variables...

 

[cuotes]

Thx Martinghoul

I continue every day looking into it.
I've noticed some differences but still need more time to experiment.
I'll post here my results, just in case someone could be interested as well.

 

[shatztrader]

NEW YORK, Aug 11 (Reuters) - The New York Federal Reserve said its purchases of U.S. Treasuries closed at 11:20 a.m. on Tuesday, instead of the usual 11 a.m. closing time.

A New York Fed spokeswoman said a technical glitch caused the purchase operation to restart, pushing back the closing time by 20 minutes.

b****cks in addition to bu****t

 

[traceyjc]

Anyone know why the front end in europe is so strong today? Want to put on a flattener but it's making me think twice

Cheers

 

[Martinghoul]

Anyone know why the front end in europe is so strong today? Want to put on a flattener but it's making me think twice
Cheers

Might be continuing reaction to Weber's comments from yest (including the bit about 'withdrawing liquidity too early'). Since then there's been a lot of buying of all sorts of bullish option structures in front Sep and Dec.

 

[zeeuk]

Anyone know why the front end in europe is so strong today? Want to put on a flattener but it's making me think twice

Cheers

As you know curve has been very directional with the moves in the stock market. Personally thought it's been oversold this week a little.

 

[traceyjc]

As you know curve has been very directional with the moves in the stock market. Personally thought it's been oversold this week a little.

Oversold? It's been steepening all week.

Want to put on the flattener due to supply announcement in the US today and the auction next week. Month end extensions are expected to be massive again and so that would help out with the trade. Technically it looks good on the daily/weekly and monthly is kicking in. Would you be looking for it to steepen?

Cheers

 

[shatztrader]

I understand the flippers (especially what Paul does) but for some reason I think mpoufos is talking about a different trading style and not just the same old flipping.

upgraded
what`s more scary to me is the fact that TT is co-owned at the moment by people who used to trade eurex products. Why?
Because, for example when you see a typical smackdown happening on a bund with 5 0r 6 windows being pulled witout T&S recording the actuall amount of contracts being traded, it looks fishy to me.

 

[AgeKay]

what`s more scary to me is the fact that TT is co-owned at the moment by people who used to trade eurex products. Why?

Who exactly are you talking about?

Because, for example when you see a typical smackdown happening on a bund with 5 0r 6 windows being pulled witout T&S recording the actuall amount of contracts being traded, it looks fishy to me.

What do you mean by 5 or 6 windows? Did you mean price levels? If so, then someone just pulled all their orders at those price levels. No trades need to have occured for that to happen.

 

[shatztrader]

Who exactly are you talking about?

Harris Brumfield - Trading Technologies

What do you mean by 5 or 6 windows? Did you mean price levels? If so, then someone just pulled all their orders at those price levels. No trades need to have occured for that to happen.

yes, price levels, sorry for using own words. someone pulled 5 or 6 price levels on a bund on friday after pushing up.... just wonder if so many people trade bund during rush hours, how can 1 guy manipulate market to that extent...?
I am not suggesting anything AgeKay, just thinking loud...

 

[AgeKay]

Harris Brumsfield made TT to what it is today. TT was losing money before Harris Brumsfield came on board and he made it profitable. TT lost $32 million over the years and most of those came right out of Brumsfield's personal bank account. Without him TT would probably not even exist today.

someone pulled 5 or 6 price levels on a bund on friday after pushing up.... just wonder if so many people trade bund during rush hours, how can 1 guy manipulate market to that extent...?

What time are you talking about? I was trading on Friday and didn't notice anything like that other than during news.

I have the feeling most limit orders in the market depth are managed by programs. Even if this is not the case, at least it's big traders with software that has pre-programmed functions that do things like pulling several price levels. It might even be Paul Rotter, he still runs a trading company (www.rotterinvest.com).

 

[shatztrader]

Harris Brumsfield made TT to what it is today. TT was losing money before Harris Brumsfield came on board and he made it profitable. TT lost $32 million over the years and most of those came right out of Brumsfield's personal bank account. Without him TT would probably not even exist today.



What time are you talking about? I was trading on Friday and didn't notice anything like that other than during news.

I have the feeling most limit orders in the market depth are managed by programs. Even if this is not the case, at least it's big traders with software that has pre-programmed functions that do things like pulling several price levels. It might even be Paul Rotter, he still runs a trading company (www.rotterinvest.com).

dont remeber the exact time, but I can assure you I am watching the product very closely
Could be programmed, but as usual I tend to be sceptical about things, for ex people flashing these big orders for reasons I can only guess, but that I ll keep to myself... tx for stepping in anyways.

PS . yes I have seen P Rotter website ...seems like a v canny person

 

[AgeKay]

dont remeber the exact time, but I can assure you I am watching the product very closely

My software is visually keeping track of every change in the inside market, I wouldn't miss something like that. Can you give me a general time, was it in the morning, noon, afternoon, evening?

 

[shatztrader]

My software is visually keeping track of every change in the inside market, I wouldn't miss something like that. Can you give me a general time, was it in the morning, noon, afternoon, evening?

cool, about 11AM GMT, but I am not sure, sorry,
how do you mean `My software is visually keeping track of every change in the inside market,`?

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Any thoughts on where the Bund is heading next?

 

[AgeKay]

Any thoughts on where the Bund is heading next?

I'm prettty sure it's gonna go up or down.

Are you seriously looking for that kind of advice on an anonymous forum?