Brexit - in or out

[timsk]

For anyone who hasn't made up their mind which way to vote, as a counter balance to Brexit: The Movie for the leave campaign, this is by far any away the most persuasive talk in favour of staying in that I've come across thus far: Professor Michael Dougan analyses the EU Referendum debate.
Tim.

 

[samfarrell]

Aye, biggish shift today 2/7 remain, 3/1 leave - reality reasserting itself

Some people got their hopes up, but it was never going to happen

 

[barjon]

For anyone who hasn't made up their mind which way to vote, as a counter balance to Brexit: The Movie for the leave campaign, this is by far any away the most persuasive talk in favour of staying in that I've come across thus far: Professor Michael Dougan analyses the EU Referendum debate.
Tim.

Yes, the worst thing about this campaign has been the plethora of half-truths and downright lies coming from both sides. It's good to see some solid and factual analysis.

 

[forker]

For anyone who hasn't made up their mind which way to vote, as a counter balance to Brexit: The Movie for the leave campaign, this is by far any away the most persuasive talk in favour of staying in that I've come across thus far: Professor Michael Dougan analyses the EU Referendum debate.
Tim.

And clearly a man who's spent his adult life studying this area specialising in regards to the UK is unbiased! If we happen to leave the EU would his future in terms of his career still be relevant?

I am sure you will have a basket of replies to this however I am sure none of it will answer the question. Anyone would have a bias if the outcome of a vote could leads to a need to find a new job, having to relocate, having to take a pay cut, having to change careers. (any or all of the above)

 

[Splitlink]

Cameron is such a moron. He may well go down in history as the man who got what he didn't want and didn't have to have. We shall see.

The British electorate have usually done what the working class newspapers tell them what they think. As for self generated thought ? Hardly mate. But improving somewhat, just thinking what their Universities think for some.

Pat, I can't believe what I am hearing about your assessment of the British character. You, even, know what they voted and here you are, expressing an opinion on it three days before the date! Do you have a cristal ball?

 

[barjon]

And clearly a man who's spent his adult life studying this area specialising in regards to the UK is unbiased! If we happen to leave the EU would his future in terms of his career still be relevant?

I am sure you will have a basket of replies to this however I am sure none of it will answer the question. Anyone would have a bias if the outcome of a vote could leads to a need to find a new job, having to relocate, having to take a pay cut, having to change careers. (any or all of the above)

So just who is this wonderful being who doesn't have a bias of one sort or another. I guess none of my comments can be taken as unbiased because I have concluded that we are best off remaining. Nor are you unbiased.

The more crucial point is whether the bias is backed up but a consideration of facts rather than opinions.

 

[timsk]

And clearly a man who's spent his adult life studying this area specialising in regards to the UK is unbiased! If we happen to leave the EU would his future in terms of his career still be relevant?

I am sure you will have a basket of replies to this however I am sure none of it will answer the question. Anyone would have a bias if the outcome of a vote could leads to a need to find a new job, having to relocate, having to take a pay cut, having to change careers. (any or all of the above)

Hi forker,
For the record, I'm voting out. However, IMO, Prof. Dougan's comments are interesting and - to my mind anyway - carry more weight and conviction than a lot of the arguments promulgated by the remain campaign. To date, their basic strategy has been fear of the unknown and listing well known people who want to stay in. That's weak. Unlike many of them, the professor at least makes a good case for staying in.

With regard to your question, I don't see that his job is at risk either way and don't accept that he has a vested interest in staying in. In fact, if we pull out, I imagine he'll become a whole lot busier doing lectures and advising government departments etc. about what to do next. Assuming his expertise doesn't come cheap, I imagine he'll do very nicely thank you. Certainly, his future - and career - will be as relevant as ever.
Tim.

 

[forker]

So just who is this wonderful being who doesn't have a bias of one sort or another. I guess none of my comments can be taken as unbiased because I have concluded that we are best off remaining. Nor are you unbiased.

The more crucial point is whether the bias is backed up but a consideration of facts rather than opinions.

Personal opinion is different from public announcements tagged as a balanced view when in fact the presenter is not being balanced. If this was a professor from a country outside the UK and Europe then it could be seen as a balanced opinion. I think you have completely missed my point. Why am I not surprised

 

[forker]

With regard to your question, I don't see that his job is at risk either way and don't accept that he has a vested interest in staying in. In fact, if we pull out, I imagine he'll become a whole lot busier doing lectures and advising government departments etc. about what to do next. Assuming his expertise doesn't come cheap, I imagine he'll do very nicely thank you. Certainly, his future - and career - will be as relevant as ever.
Tim.

his career is based on EU law in respect to the UK. Please elaborate how he is not directly affected by a leave vote? The UK's laws would diverge and he would need to study over again as laws and relationships change! You can't be a specialist if your knowledge is no longer applicable! He might have a busy 2 years post brexit but where does he go thereafter?

 

[Splitlink]

Cameron is such a moron. He may well go down in history as the man who got what he didn't want and didn't have to have. We shall see.

The British electorate have usually done what the working class newspapers tell them what they think. As for self generated thought ? Hardly mate. But improving somewhat, just thinking what their Universities think for some.

Cameron is hardly a moron. He would not be there, if he was. He does not have the same opinion as you do but I expect that you, too, have a reason for wanting Brexit. It is , all, self-interest, including any reasons that I may have wanting the UK to stay, but I don't insult the public's intelligence as you seem to just because you THINK that you know what they are going to vote!

 

[timsk]

his career is based on EU law in respect to the UK. Please elaborate how he is not directly affected by a leave vote? The UK's laws would diverge and he would need to study over again as laws and relationships change! You can't be a specialist if your knowledge is no longer applicable! He might have a busy 2 years post brexit but where does he go thereafter?

Hi forker,
If you've watched the video, you'll know that what he termed as the 'divorce' procedure will take 2 years. Negotiating new trade agreements with 60+ countries will take a further ten years after that as a bare minimum. So I don't think he'll be too concerned about having to claim the dole anytime soon.

Besides which, check out the man's profile and credentials: Prof. Michael Dougan. He's heavyweight. If the leave vote win on Thursday, I really can't see that the University of Liverpool are going to show the prof. the door on Friday with the instruction to be sure to close it behind him on his way out!

Tim.

 

[barjon]

Personal opinion is different from public announcements tagged as a balanced view when in fact the presenter is not being balanced. If this was a professor from a country outside the UK and Europe then it could be seen as a balanced opinion. I think you have completely missed my point. Why am I not surprised

No, I have not missed your point. My point is your own brexit bias prevents you from giving balanced consideration to anything anyone says who has the temerity to support remain.

it demonstrates a hostile belligerence that has been an unfortunate feature of the brexit side (that and all the wishful thinking and lies of course)

 

[timsk]

. . . it demonstrates a hostile belligerence that has been an unfortunate feature of the brexit side . . .

Not everyone in the Brexit camp is guilty of this Jon!

 

[barjon]

Not everyone in the Brexit camp is guilty of this Jon!

No I agree - not even a major part, just some unwholesome ones who spoil any chance of serious debate.

 

[forker]

Hi forker,
Negotiating new trade agreements with 60+ countries will take a further ten years after that as a bare minimum.
Tim.

The remain camp seem to associate the length of time it takes to agree trade deals with reference to Canada and the EU. Signing a deal with countries outside the EU doesn't require 28 countries agreeing and a mountain of existing red tape that needs altering.

To put trade deals in a realistic perspective; the first round of GATT which involved 23 countries at the time took only 6 months to conclude a deal that reduced 45,000 tariffs. This is a far cry from 10 years which will be needed when the EU negotiates trade deals. We also cannot overlook the fact that about 16% of the EU's trade is with the UK and thus it is in their interest to establish trade deals ASAP post brexit as it would severely affect their economy. It is not like Canada which is between 1-2% of their exports.

 

[Solas0077]

UK should exit now before they end up working for Germans.

 

[ffsear]

Cameron is such a moron. He may well go down in history as the man who got what he didn't want and didn't have to have. We shall see.

What?? Cameron's General election campaign promised a referendum on the EU? And he's delivered. How does that make him a moron?

 

[forker]

My point is your own brexit bias prevents you from giving balanced consideration to anything anyone says who has the temerity to support remain.

How can i have a balanced consideration when i get on the train in the mornings in London and i am surrounded by EU migrants. I feel like a foreigner in my own country and every day i have them to the left and right and in front of me talking in a foreign language.
How can i have a balanced view when my children haven't any chance of owning their own house because the prices today are not affordable due to over demand and in 20-30 years time it will be nothing more than a dream.
How can i have a balanced view when the NHS cannot cope. My wife had to wait 8 months to get an appointment for a back specialist. My Wife's niece was in A&E for 10 hours last week before she could be seen.

Balanced view - are you living somewhere so remote that you are completely disengaged with reality.

it demonstrates a hostile belligerence that has been an unfortunate feature of the brexit side

The remain camp have been the most hostile in this campaign. From threatening world war 3 to 10 years of austerity to tax rises to becoming irrelevant an. Their latest stunt is piggy backing off the murder last week to influence the vote. No No No you are off the scale being wrong on this point. Only the leave campaign have promoted positive points. The remain camp can have no positive points for staying and truck loads of belligerent propaganda against brexit

 

[Signalcalc]

So the banks are running up the markets to make a massive profit on the short side when we get a Brexit, I think they know something that the bookies don't.

 

[Splitlink]

So the banks are running up the markets to make a massive profit on the short side when we get a Brexit, I think they know something that the bookies don't.

They are, always, infallible, aren't they?My question is, will they get a baleout, again, so soon after the last one?

'