Brexit - in or out

barjon said:
aye, if we got the wrong (right) result unscrambling all the joint ventures for a start will tie up negotiating teams for years. Just have to recruit a few thousand more unelected bureaucrats to do it 😆
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That's ok. It will give them something to do. Heaven forbid they ever have to do a proper days work.😆
 
Oscar Reed said:
Is Canada looking for home day traders.😆

You might get an Aussie invade if you vote out.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620851/Brexit-make-easier-Australians-UK.html
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It's quite ridiculous that under the free movement rules within the EU, any Thommas, Dickuss or Hairyass can come over to work and yet highly skilled, higher paid workers from other countries will be ejected in order to keep the immigration numbers down.

Who contributes more to the UK.

From the EU, anyone, regardless of skill levels and earnings (minimum wage) probably contributing little in money terms but hogging resources.

Rest of the world, high skill, high earners and paying lots of tax as a contribution to the UK coffers.

It's a double whammy. Not only do low skilled EU workers contribute less, they take up a disproportionate amount of service provision.
They also keep the lowest paid sector at depressed levels. Large pool of cheap labour = big corp profits which they then divert offshore and pay little to no tax.
 
counter_violent said:
It's quite ridiculous that under the free movement rules within the EU, any Thommas, Dickuss or Hairyass can come over to work and yet highly skilled, higher paid workers from other countries will be ejected in order to keep the immigration numbers down.

Who contributes more to the UK.

From the EU, anyone, regardless of skill levels and earnings (minimum wage) probably contributing little in money terms but hogging resources.

Rest of the world, high skill, high earners and paying lots of tax as a contribution to the UK coffers.

It's a double whammy. Not only do low skilled EU workers contribute less, they take up a disproportionate amount of service provision.
They also keep the lowest paid sector at depressed levels. Large pool of cheap labour = big corp profits which they then divert offshore and pay little to no tax.
Click to expand...


The problem with this approach is that the UK already has process for getting qualified skills to come and work here. It's simply a formality.

It's the low paid labour to keep costs and wages down that is required. Migrant labour is one of the biggest factors for preventing wage induced inflation that was the curse of 70s.

It also prevents unions gaining power. Anybody travelling on SouthWest Trains will know unions power is creeping back in to wage settlements.

Brexit campaign re: higher wages and lower house prices may sound like a great manifesto pledge in reality it's such great piece of fiction I'm finding it incredible that most are lapping it up and spreading it like gospel.


As for migrants taking up all the school places, social services, council homes and hospital beds and seats on transport... well that's another load of bull. Take away the bottom cheap end of the market and all those social services that rely on low paid migrant workers going to go down hill and cost a lot more.


Absolutely incredible as to how remarkably daft the unaccountable offerings are which are so readily accepted as reality and any warnings and cautions are fobbed off as scare mongering. No accountability on alternatives.


Some people are going to be very disillusioned if Brexit manages to isolate UK and starts it's brakup. 😱:-0:-0:-0:-0:-0:-0😱
 
I have copy/pasted a post i made in Dinos EU ref thread, it is a view born of my own personal experience :

I live in the south east of the UK & my work takes me all over the south & up to the midlands.
The nature of my work places me in different locations usually for a day at a time.
Many of the town centres have become horrible places to work, I've worked in towns where I have not heard one single English accent for hours on end at a time, & the abuse I've witnessed between different groups of non English speaking groups has been jaw dropping & genuinely frightening at times !! this is the reality of the here & now, & I have witnessed it first hand for a long enough time.

Immigration is vital for the mix of cultural diversity that I know & love about the UK, but it's high time that we wake up & see the very real situation in front of our eyes. We are a small successful island & I for one am proud of our English ways, when another culture comes here adding their flavour while completely taking on the English culture, then it enriches us all, but the reality is that for quite some time now people have been coming to the UK & completely taking it for granted.

If we leave Europe it doesn't mean the world will end for us.
I lived in Australia for over 3 years (some time ago now) & among many other things their points system encouraged quality & gave a real sense of the Ozzie's being very proud of who they are.

I am not some Daily mail-reading-Nigel Farage-loving loon, just someone that sees it for what it is.
 
The remain desperation attempts are ramping up even more now, just shows how nervous they are. Remain reality is totally out of the window. Even more telling is that it's always the privileged saying it, none of them have ever worked a physical job or been low paid or had to struggle in their lives.

It appears to me that reality is in the leave campaign, at least they aren't going totally overboard with their outlandish claims.
 
tokyojoe said:
I have copy/pasted a post i made in Dinos EU ref thread, it is a view born of my own personal experience :

I live in the south east of the UK & my work takes me all over the south & up to the midlands.
The nature of my work places me in different locations usually for a day at a time.
Many of the town centres have become horrible places to work, I've worked in towns where I have not heard one single English accent for hours on end at a time, & the abuse I've witnessed between different groups of non English speaking groups has been jaw dropping & genuinely frightening at times !! this is the reality of the here & now, & I have witnessed it first hand for a long enough time.

Immigration is vital for the mix of cultural diversity that I know & love about the UK, but it's high time that we wake up & see the very real situation in front of our eyes. We are a small successful island & I for one am proud of our English ways, when another culture comes here adding their flavour while completely taking on the English culture, then it enriches us all, but the reality is that for quite some time now people have been coming to the UK & completely taking it for granted.

If we leave Europe it doesn't mean the world will end for us.
I lived in Australia for over 3 years (some time ago now) & among many other things their points system encouraged quality & gave a real sense of the Ozzie's being very proud of who they are.

I am not some Daily mail-reading-Nigel Farage-loving loon, just someone that sees it for what it is.
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Agree with you totally. I really do.

I have my own prejudices too. I hate the look of these people wearing their long beards, men wearing dresses with track suit bottoms underneath and trainers looking like plonkers as if we have tropical heat stating their national and religious identity.

The point remains however, that every government irrespective of who will continue to increase numbers.

To the pen pushing mandarins in echolens of power don't care much for what's happening on the ground.

People like Boris, Nigel and probably Farage too all the same to them imho.


It's a numbers game. Numbers and the actions of those men do not add up. 🙄



They have great number of actions and laws they can implement now. Why don't they? Why has UK made the UK a favourable destination for migrant labour with all the more than generous benefits than what is under EU law?

This is the question you should ask?
 
Atilla said:
Agree with you totally. I really do.

I have my own prejudices too. I hate the look of these people wearing their long beards, men wearing dresses with track suit bottoms underneath and trainers looking like plonkers as if we have tropical heat stating their national and religious identity.

The point remains however, that every government irrespective of who will continue to increase numbers.

To the pen pushing mandarins in echolens of power don't care much for what's happening on the ground.

People like Boris, Nigel and probably Farage too all the same to them imho.


It's a numbers game. Numbers and the actions of those men do not add up. 🙄



They have great number of actions and laws they can implement now. Why don't they? Why has UK made the UK a favourable destination for migrant labour with all the more than generous benefits than what is under EU law?

This is the question you should ask?
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Please do not mistake my real life experience of many years on the ground with simple prejudices of peoples appearance. My point is that for far too long people have completely taken the English way for granted, it is their outlook, actions & attitude I am talking of here.

You are right, it is a numbers game, we have allowed far too many people to disregard our way of life & assume this country & it's people to be some sideline.

The difference between what has been & what can be, is that now the people can decide, or at least make it loud & clear that enough is enough !

For the record I have a range of friends, from my best mate who is a multimillionaire to guys struggling to meet the next mortgage payments, real friends, not facebook b@ll@x, I have friends from different ethnic backgrounds, guess what the recurring theme is !!
 
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This debate is really difficult and till now I have no idea how to vote. I have worked with Germans professionally and if the out vote says they want to economically strangle Europe I believe it.

That said, I know that this debate has shifted from EU to human rights to Muslims. This tells me the far right is too invested in the argument. Why? Nationalism? There is more to it. The commonwealth doesn't really exist. It is a collection of bitter countries that have not shaken the scars of imperial Britain. We are blind if we think there is a benefit to be had there. China will deal with us but that means we will be on our back while they ride us on top. China is a commodity nation with strong links to South America and Africa. $300 billion is the total trade between Africa and China.

The Carribean Islands all now want to be republics and cut ties with the crown. The way Jamaicans and Africans are treated relative to the EU partners there is just no love. So that common wealth is dead. Australia have echoed leaving the crown too along with the Kiwis. The US would rather trade with Europe we have a stronger pound so nothing to offer the US. Just look how Google treat us over taxes. Facebook is in Ireland as well as PayPal and LinkedIn. That leaves one... India. Well we think immigration is bad now but when the EU migrants go, they will be replaced by so called Indian skilled workers. India has a 1 billion population. Most are educated or pass for skilled. This is one way relationship. Modi has visited Britain twice both right and left are lobbied.

I guess as we leave the EU we usher in an Imperial Britain with the old Raj type elite. Good luck I say. I don't want to vote leave because I know that we will end up with a new type of far right structure in place of German imperialism. I don't want to vote stay because Europe is a bureaucratic mess run by German elitists. Either way we are screwed. It's a a question of who does the screwing and what do I get after. So my vote will be for selfish reasons.
 
i am sick to death of reading this "COULD" happen if brexit. Could is an assumption and no different than saying the sky could be pink after a brexit. i am at the point of being turned off reading any news regarding brexit as it is almost guaranteed to include a basis of assumption and nothing more.
 
forker said:
i am sick to death of reading this "COULD" happen if brexit. Could is an assumption and no different than saying the sky could be pink after a brexit. i am at the point of being turned off reading any news regarding brexit as it is almost guaranteed to include a basis of assumption and nothing more.
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Agreed.
If brexit or the option was so bad why did the Tories make the vote an election issue. Now the election is over and he came back from Europe without even a stamp in his passport, Brexit is the worst thing imaginable. Thankfully I don't live in the UK anymore and when I return after 2 days it's enough. Changed beyond belief and nothing for the better. I hope you grab back your country and don't pass this chance.
Germans are the only winners in the EU trading under a falsely valued currency for themselves and a few hundred million customers in there doorsteps and to boot they decide who gets the money. They don't even mind their migrants as they will be their cheap labour soon enough as the Germans are an aging population and real Germans won't want to do crap jobs in future. This lot are far more sly than Adolf.
Enough get out while you can, don't pass it up.
 
The markets have been trying to tell us something over the last week.
ftse, dax, cac and crosses of jpy. They are pointing to a Brexit with still 13 days to go.
The writing is on the wall for the EU. 👍
 
"No single market access for UK after Brexit, Wolfgang Schäuble says" No 5hit sherlock

add to that - no offloading unskilled labour to the uk (Wolfgang Schäuble better add some sheds to his back yard to accommodate them)

also add to that (no more millions from the brits, we better tighten our belts)..

idiots the lot of them..
 
The single market will probably collapse if/ when we leave as other countries will want to follow. So then we could be leaders in re-creating a separate single market just like the original plan before this whole thing become a political union and basket case.
 
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