Brexit and the Consequences

[MasterOfCoin]

Well, have been watching the FTSE nosedive since the 17th.

(and dropping sharply today)

But that's more to do with a little Chinky virus getting out of hand than Brexit.

 

[Atilla]

Populism is just beginning

As Brexit finally becomes reality, I foresee four more years of the Trump administration—and the triumph of populism over globalism, everywhere.

www.newsweek.com

Yes let's party now and we can pick up the tabs later. LOL

Blair the most successful Laobur PM was also a big hit with uncle Bushy and the Iraq war. Look where he is now? Farage I think will follow same path. Become a figure of loathing who'll be told to shut-up.

Nothing has been delivered. Only that a decision has been made. Yes, we're leaving.

Negotiations with the EU and making deals with the rest of the World beckons us. Oh what joy!

Like Trump, we 'gonna' be making the best most beautiful and wonderful deals the World has ever seen.

Like Trump who's only braking deals only to make sort of smaller or no deals at all, UK has just broken one of the biggest and most successful deal the globe has ever seen, with the promise that she will make much better deals elsewhere. I suspect those new deals with the likes of NZ and the Auzzies will be considerably smaller but hailed as a Magnificient achievement.

Two headed beast. I have a sneaky feeling the UK and US will make a deal out of desperation because they are losing to the rest of the World. Two peas in a pod.


Forget all that for now, let's just party on. Well done! Let's see a jolly good show...

 

[counter_violent]

Partyyyyyyyyyyy

🥳🥳🥳🥳

 

[postman]

Closure! There were fireworks here even though they are hard to come by at this time of year.

 

[Dowser]

Independence Day! 🥳

 

[Signalcalc]

Closure! There were fireworks here even though they are hard to come by at this time of year.

View attachment 273904

We've spent a long time reaching the starting line.

 

[Atilla]

Very strange evening. Surreal!

Watched V for Vandetta on Sony Movies and Big Ben gongs went off quite a few time almost to celebrate Brexit.

The ending was bizarre in a reverse kind of way. Did the people win or did Parliament win? Aren't they suppose to be one and the same?

Didn't enjoy the movie as much as I did the first time.

Feeling sad. No idea why?

 

[tomorton]

Very strange evening. Surreal!

Watched V for Vandetta on Sony Movies and Big Ben gongs went off quite a few time almost to celebrate Brexit.

The ending was bizarre in a reverse kind of way. Did the people win or did Parliament win? Aren't they suppose to be one and the same?

Didn't enjoy the movie as much as I did the first time.

Feeling sad. No idea why?

Brexit threw into relief the divergence between voters and MP's.

MP's are representatives, not delegates. they are chosen by voters in constituencies but they are not bound to consult the constituency voters in order to determine which way they should vote in Parliament on any given question. This is both a strength of our form of democracy, but also a weakness as shown by the simple statistic that though 70% of constituency-adjusted votes in the referendum were for Leave, 70% of the MP's in the country wished to Remain.

In practice I wish that the Remain MP's had been excluded from any vote on any withdrawal Bill in Parliament. It would have been unconstitutional but it could have saved us 3 years of dither and international embarassment and loss of business.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

It's true- in the UK, you vote for a person to be an MP to represent that constituency.
That person can then do whatsoever suits themselves as 'representation' until the next election.
They are not bound to any promises made, or to represent any particular views or any party.
You may have thought you could vote for a right or left wing party, or leave or remain but your MP can can do as they please once elected, including defecting to the Monster Raving Loony Hippey Yoga Party or casting votes in parliament that clearly do not reflect the views of the public that elected them. That's what we call democracy.

As to the 3 years of dither and delay, well, that's not over either, there's at least another year of being bound to the EU and all it's regulations to go yet, if not far, far longer.

To shorten the agony of the now inevitable, they might consider actually getting on with it. Ergo.

Cancel HS2 and use the money to restore Hadrians |Wall so that Scotland can have it's Inde-Ref ASAP.

Re-instate the Irish Border immediately, we're not in the bloody Schengen-Zone.

And for what rational reason are authorities 'rescuing' migrants out of the channel ? Sure, if they make it to dry land, by all means round them up and throw them in one of the concentration camps provided therefor. But if you're going to pick them up the moment they paddle into the North Sea, then just lay on some ferries and be done with it. The whole point of having a large stretch of water as a border is that it is difficult to cross. Countries don't have river and sea borders by accident.

Not suggesting that any of the above is morally righteous or even what people voted for, but it would bring a swift end to all the dithering, the years of wrangling, the floods of migrants and the end result of Brexit in name only with all of the drawbacks, rules and regulations still imposed but none of the benefits or any say in drafting them.

 

[tomorton]

I don't expect the UK government will ask for an extension of the 31/12 deadline for the end of the transition period. But I think many subjects of mutual interest between the UK and the EU will be subject to individual transition arrangements for years afterwards. Most of this won't be felt by the public . Probably the two governments will urgently press on with agreements covering critical trade areas like pharmaceuticals, plus the stuff that would really aggravate voters if it went wrong - travel to/from the EU etc.

But we won't be fully out for at least 5 years.

 

[tomorton]

It's true- in the UK, you vote for a person to be an MP to represent that constituency.
That person can then do whatsoever suits themselves as 'representation' until the next election.
They are not bound to any promises made, or to represent any particular views or any party.
You may have thought you could vote for a right or left wing party, or leave or remain but your MP can can do as they please once elected, including defecting to the Monster Raving Loony Hippey Yoga Party or casting votes in parliament that clearly do not reflect the views of the public that elected them. That's what we call democracy.

As to the 3 years of dither and delay, well, that's not over either, there's at least another year of being bound to the EU and all it's regulations to go yet, if not far, far longer.

To shorten the agony of the now inevitable, they might consider actually getting on with it. Ergo.

Cancel HS2 and use the money to restore Hadrians |Wall so that Scotland can have it's Inde-Ref ASAP.

Re-instate the Irish Border immediately, we're not in the bloody Schengen-Zone.

And for what rational reason are authorities 'rescuing' migrants out of the channel ? Sure, if they make it to dry land, by all means round them up and throw them in one of the concentration camps provided therefor. But if you're going to pick them up the moment they paddle into the North Sea, then just lay on some ferries and be done with it. The whole point of having a large stretch of water as a border is that it is difficult to cross. Countries don't have river and sea borders by accident.

Not suggesting that any of the above is morally righteous or even what people voted for, but it would bring a swift end to all the dithering, the years of wrangling, the floods of migrants and the end result of Brexit in name only with all of the drawbacks, rules and regulations still imposed but none of the benefits or any say in drafting them.

Our election of MP's isn't perfect. I believe some European MP's are allocated to constituencies after their party has received so many votes in an election. so some Europeans cannot know the name of their MP at the ballot box because they haven't been appointed yet. Some countries allocate additional "bonus" seats in parliament to the winning party so that the party has a working majority and they avoid minority governments like Theresa May's - in that case the constituency receives whichever MP the party decides.

No system's perfect. MP's here who are no-shows or who switch parties tend to get voted out (eventually).

 

[NVP]

sums it up ?

Brexit, the most pointless, masochistic ambition in our country's history, is done

The magic dust of populism has blinded reason, and damage and diminishment lie ahead

www.theguardian.com

 

[tomorton]

sums it up ?

Brexit, the most pointless, masochistic ambition in our country's history, is done

The magic dust of populism has blinded reason, and damage and diminishment lie ahead

www.theguardian.com

Well, it sums up what the Guardian believe.

 

[NVP]

I don't expect the UK government will ask for an extension of the 31/12 deadline for the end of the transition period. But I think many subjects of mutual interest between the UK and the EU will be subject to individual transition arrangements for years afterwards. Most of this won't be felt by the public . Probably the two governments will urgently press on with agreements covering critical trade areas like pharmaceuticals, plus the stuff that would really aggravate voters if it went wrong - travel to/from the EU etc.

But we won't be fully out for at least 5 years.

just waiting for Brexit to truly unravel now .........

Thats not what we were promised (hate to say this but a few porkies were told by the brexiteers)

Those shifty foreigners are screwing us (we left...divorce is generally painful for the instigator)

This is costing more than i thought it would ( as opposed to the last 4 years of UK value destruction ?)

Why cant I Travel freely or live in europe ? ( hello - earth to brexiteers ???)

Why is [China ,Russia , USA (insert country as appropriate)] ....F*cking us over ? - (because we are not now within the protection of a large and powerful Group)

wonder where it will come first ....my bets on those lovely friendly US trade negotiations ......Trump must be laughing his orange wig off .......

welcome to the brave new world ......where my flag again ?

N

 

[NVP]

Well, it sums up what the Guardian believe.

yep....unusual for me to agree with them....

 

[tomorton]

just waiting for Brexit to truly unravel now .........

Thats not what we were promised (hate to say this but a few porkies were told by the brexiteers)

Those shifty foreigners are screwing us (we left...divorce is generally painful for the instigator)

This is costing more than i thought it would ( as opposed to the last 4 years of UK value destruction ?)

Why cant I Travel freely or live in europe ? ( hello - earth to brexiteers ???)

Why is [China ,Russia , USA (insert country as appropriate)] ....F*cking us over ? - (because we are not now within the protection of a large and powerful Group)

wonder where it will come first ....my bets on those lovely friendly US trade negotiations ......Trump must be laughing his orange wig off .......

welcome to the brave new world ......where my flag again ?

N

Trump and Putin will be happy we have left the EU because it makes the EU weaker as a competitor economic bloc. However, UK policy should not be designed with simple objectives like making Trump and Putin angry.

Most economists agree that the UK' economy will not grow as fast in the short term due to Brexit: also that it could possibly contract but not so much as to be called a recession. But for the long term they cannot make an accurate prediction.

The UK will only have the clout it can muster within its own resources in the future, in dealings with third party countries we will not be able to lean on the EU's support. But was that ever so great?

And the consolation is that the UK will continue to exist as a sovereign nation state.

 

[hhiusa]

We knew this was coming. What I found most funny was reading the old posts here about how we would Bremain. We all knew this was coming.

As an American, I am loving this. The pound has really never been cheaper. Put futures options all around. I hope Boris botches the economy with Brexit. Hey, I should write Dr. Seuss books with that.

Now I would read that.

 

[0007]

Nissan plans to increase UK market share in Brexit contingency plan

Nissan has drawn up a contingency plan to pull out of Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports, but will double down on the UK.

www.cityam.com

This is a bit different from what the Doom-mongers were telling us!

 

[cantagril]

Nissan plans to increase UK market share in Brexit contingency plan

Nissan has drawn up a contingency plan to pull out of Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports, but will double down on the UK.

www.cityam.com

This is a bit different from what the Doom-mongers were telling us!

This seems more than suspect to me and flies in the face of what NIssan were saying up until very recently - see link to article referenced by CityA.M:

No-deal Brexit tariffs would jeopardise our Europe business model, says Nissan - CityAM

Tariffs introduced in the wake of a no-deal Brexit would make Nissan’s business model in Europe unsustainable and put the future of its Sunderland plant in jeopardy, the carmaker has warned. Nissan’s European chairman, Gianluca de Ficchy, said the imposition of WTO tariffs of 10 per cent on...

www.cityam.com

I would suggest that the Japanese are doing exactly what they did a couple of years ago when after some threats (veiled and not so veiled) they extracted a promise from the UK government that Nissan's plant and their presence in the UK would be protected.

At the same time, for a couple of years now, Nissan have been playing the Spaniels citing amongst other things, the Catalonian political crisis as an excuse to move production elsewhere. It's worth noting that production at the Barcelona plant has fallen drastically for reasons that have little to do with Brexit.

And since we're talking Europe, also don't forget that the Nissans made in France are churned out of a Renault factory. After he'd saved the company and was therefore surplus to requirements, they (the Nips) got rid of Carlos and they're now well on the way to regaining sovereignty over their hunk of the group and reversing the measures that shifted the balance of power to the French. Withdrawing production from the Yvelines factory (or at least, threatening to do so) gives them a sizeable bargain chip with both Renault and the increasing shaky grasp on power of Monsieur Macaroon.

Imo, Trump is merely one of a long list of folk looking at Brexit as an opportunity and Nissan is somewhere on that list. That said, I find it quite charming that in this age of Realpolitik we can still display such a degree of naïveté in thinking that we're actually making new friends rather than losing old ones.

 

[Atilla]

How does one put it? Sherlock without shed...

Brexit battle starts for real as UK and EU lay out their wishes on trade

Sterling fell more than 1% after Boris Johnson said he wouldn't accept EU standards as a price to pay to secure a free trade deal.

www.cnbc.com