Brexit and the Consequences

[timsk]

It may have escaped your notice that, Liberals aside, the referendum result has been accepted. . .

Hi Jon,
Joking aside and in all seriousness, only remain voters think this. Most - if not almost all leave voters - are of the view that the politicians and political commentators who say this actually think like Jo Swinson and the Illiberal Anti-democrats. They just aren't honest enough to say so. Gina Miller is perhaps the best example of this: I'd respect her more if she stopped pretending she's got no issue with Brexit and just wants to ensure parliament follows due process. It's so disingenuous and insincere. I will say one thing for the LibDems though: at least they've had the courage to come out and say what they really think and have dropped the pretence of wanting to abide by the referendum result even though they don't agree with it. There's a certain sort of honesty there - although I suspect it will backfire on them at the next general election - especially if BoJo does somehow manage to make Brexit happen on Oct' 31st. And, as Sig's cartoon neatly embodies, the other political parties will portray the LibDems as a party that's not only undemocratic but also one that can't be trusted.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
Joking aside and in all seriousness, only remain voters think this. Most - if not almost all leave voters - are of the view that the politicians and political commentators who say this actually think like Jo Swinson and the Illiberal Anti-democrats. They just aren't honest enough to say so. Gina Miller is perhaps the best example of this: I'd respect her more if she stopped pretending she's got no issue with Brexit and just wants to ensure parliament follows due process. It's so disingenuous and insincere. I will say one thing for the LibDems though: at least they've had the courage to come out and say what they really think and have dropped the pretence of wanting to abide by the referendum result even though they don't agree with it. There's a certain sort of honesty there - although I suspect it will backfire on them at the next general election - especially if BoJo does somehow manage to make Brexit happen on Oct' 31st. And, as Sig's cartoon neatly embodies, the other political parties will portray the LibDems as a party that's not only undemocratic but also one that can't be trusted.
Tim.

Well you may be right , Tim, but I reckon if the backstop bit had been resolved we’d already be out, albeit not in a way that would please the hard liners.

Btw, what happened to that deal which was supposedly offered by the EU and on the point of being finalised by DD and crew before TM barged in? Very funny we’ve heard nothing about it since. You don’t think DD and crew rather egged the pudding in front of the select committee do you? Heaven forfend!!

 

[Signalcalc]

Well you may be right , Tim, but I reckon if the backstop bit had been resolved we’d already be out, albeit not in a way that would please the hard liners.

Btw, what happened to that deal which was supposedly offered by the EU and on the point of being finalised by DD and crew before TM barged in? Very funny we’ve heard nothing about it since. You don’t think DD and crew rather egged the pudding in front of the select committee do you? Heaven forfend!!

The backstop is a confected problem designed to frustrate the process, and it's worked. Whatever happened under the May administration can't be trusted, she is a remainer, sat next to (and most likely colluding with) Ken Clarke the arch remainer in the Tory party was just rubbing Boris's nose in it when he was stood at the ballot box recently, she was an absolute disgrace to the country along with her civil service minions, working on behalf of the EU to.........frustrate the process.

 

[counter_violent]

The backstop is a confected problem designed to frustrate the process, and it's worked. Whatever happened under the May administration can't be trusted, she is a remainer, sat next to (and most likely colluding with) Ken Clarke the arch remainer in the Tory party was just rubbing Boris's nose in it when he was stood at the ballot box recently, she was an absolute disgrace to the country along with her civil service minions, working on behalf of the EU to.........frustrate the process.

Lets face it. The remainers have done nothing but frustrate the process and the nearer the looming (2nd) deadline, the more the frustration has intensified. The fact is, it's all they have. Little wonder then that the Brexiters have to keep upping the anti, just to keep pace, but are continually cast as the villains in all this.

Remainers have given up even trying to convince us of the merits and benefits of EU membership. Probably because there are none.

Verhofstadt even gave a speech at the illiberal non democrat conference this week extolling the virtues of an EU empire.

 

[timsk]

Hi Jon',

Well you may be right , Tim, but I reckon if the backstop bit had been resolved we’d already be out, albeit not in a way that would please the hard liners.

Yes, I suspect you're right about this; thank heavens there's a handful of politicians with principles who are prepared to do what is right by the 17.4M leave vote as opposed to what is merely politically expedient.

Btw, what happened to that deal which was supposedly offered by the EU and on the point of being finalised by DD and crew before TM barged in? Very funny we’ve heard nothing about it since. You don’t think DD and crew rather egged the pudding in front of the select committee do you? Heaven forfend!!

This point has been made before (by you, perhaps?) and I do agree that it's a little odd that it hasn't been raised since Mrs. May ditched it just prior to her infamous Chequers deal. If the likes of David Davis, Steve Baker or Suella Braverman ever popped up on a radio phone-in - it's a question I would put to them as I too would like to know the answer. We can each speculate why it's not cropped up before and I suspect the trio mentioned would say that it's because they are no longer ministers and, therefore, are not in a position to promote it. As for why current ministers don't pick up the baton - my guess would be that they don't want to rake over old ground and, instead, favour tinkering with the existing withdrawal agreement.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

The backstop is a confected problem designed to frustrate the process, and it's worked. Whatever happened under the May administration can't be trusted, she is a remainer, sat next to (and most likely colluding with) Ken Clarke the arch remainer in the Tory party was just rubbing Boris's nose in it when he was stood at the ballot box recently, she was an absolute disgrace to the country along with her civil service minions, working on behalf of the EU to.........frustrate the process.

I do like a balanced view

 

[cantagril]

Brexit is like a Greek or Roman festival of politics, bring in the wine 🥂🍷🍻🍸🍹🍾

.....jees it dosnt take much to upset chiron does it ?

Who's chiron?

You should be grateful for Sig's reminder that classical mythology is playing it's part in the Brexit saga - Chiron is (of course) the ferryman who transports the souls of the dead across the river Styx to the underworld. He won't be accepting Sterling after we leave

 

[counter_violent]

You should be grateful for Sig's reminder that classical mythology is playing it's part in the Brexit saga - Chiron is (of course) the ferryman who transports the souls of the dead across the river Styx to the underworld. He won't be accepting Sterling after we leave

Oh that Chiron !

 

[Signalcalc]

Verhofstadt even gave a speech at the illiberal non democrat conference this week extolling the virtues of an EU empire.

Early stages of national socialism (again), the 4th Reich? Combined with EU military unification, scary stuff and to think the illib undems are falling for it hook line and sinker. Wierd

 

[Atilla]

I'm not sure if you have been following the news recently, Labour, Libdems, SNP, there isn't a left wing party that has accepted the referendum, they are all claiming to be 'the' party of remain, despite what Corbyn says, the rest of the Labour party are remain.

Show me a left wing political party that has accepted the result of the referendum and is commited to seeing it through deal or no-deal.

What does accept the referendum mean? It's simply an advisory referendum on EU. It is not law. Nor has it become law yet?

Invoking article 50 was a knee jerk political reaction without a white paper. Look how well that's worked out?

The very people trumpeting democracy have the most extreme ideas of democracy imo. Trump's drain the swamp and lock'm up mantra says it all. Much like UK, Judges are against the people, MPs are traitors and brexiteers are true champion of our consititution. Weather it is fascism or totalitarianism you talk about they are both the two faces of dictatorship and that's where UK likely to end up if our institutions HoCs and Supreme Court rulings are roughshod over and disregarded.

 

[Signalcalc]

What does accept the referendum mean? It's simply an advisory referendum on EU. It is not law. Nor has it become law yet?

Accepting the referendum means agreeing to the process of leaving the The EU, it doesn't mean cancelling Article 50.

Invoking article 50 was a knee jerk political reaction without a white paper. Look how well that's worked out?

You make me laugh, how can invoking Article 50 be a knee jerk reaction when it was invoked 9 months after the referendum and following the Gina Miller court case, all carefully considered for many months and a court case, only remoaners can convince themselves that that is a knee jerk reaction

The very people trumpeting democracy have the most extreme ideas of democracy imo. Trump's drain the swamp and lock'm up mantra says it all.

Bringing straw man, orange man bad arguments into the Brexit thread is your speciality, we get you're a never trumper, why not rant in the Trump thread where it belongs.

Much like UK, Judges are against the people, MPs are traitors and brexiteers are true champion of our consititution. Weather it is fascism or totalitarianism you talk about they are both the two faces of dictatorship and that's where UK likely to end up if our institutions HoCs and Supreme Court rulings are roughshod over and disregarded.

Getting a bit pre-emptive aren't we? HoC hasn't been ignored, it's just lost the trust of the people, it is full of dishonest charlatans and the remainer losers can't even bring themselves to the point of a GE, how pathetic. The Supreme Court hasn't ruled yet, but remoaners just want to lock Boris up because they hate him, nothing more, childish in the extreme.

 

[timsk]

Gotta love a bit of Claire . . .

 

[Signalcalc]

I do like a balanced view

So the backstop never was necessary aaaahahhahahahahahahaha.

 

[counter_violent]

So the backstop never was necessary aaaahahhahahahahahahaha.

Amazing isn't it that the EU has only sat up and taken notice because the UK might very well leave without a deal.
Which proves beyond any doubt that hard line Brexiters should have been negotiating with the EU from the start. The EU see's Johnston as a crazy, like Trump! Both of them capable enough to either, get a deal, us Brexit and the US revised trade terms with China.

Three years wasted by the remoan side though. They couldn't run a whelk stall let alone run the country.

 

[Atilla]

Amazing isn't it that the EU has only sat up and taken notice because the UK might very well leave without a deal.
Which proves beyond any doubt that hard line Brexiters should have been negotiating with the EU from the start. The EU see's Johnston as a crazy, like Trump! Both of them capable enough to either, get a deal, us Brexit and the US revised trade terms with China.

Three years wasted by the remoan side though. They couldn't run a whelk stall let alone run the country.

Aren't you two running ahead with your selves?

He clearly says if they have a deal, chances 50/50 don't know, if conditions are met. If ALL conditions are met then we don't need backstop. About 2:00 minutes on.

You ignore all the words except we don't need backstop.


Selective hearing and comprehension. No change there. 🤪

 

[Atilla]

So the backstop never was necessary aaaahahhahahahahahahaha.

Apply some cotton buds to your ears and listen again carefully.

 

[Signalcalc]

Aren't you two running ahead with your selves?

He clearly says if they have a deal, chances 50/50 don't know, if conditions are met. If ALL conditions are met then we don't need backstop. About 2:00 minutes on.

You ignore all the words except we don't need backstop. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


Selective hearing and comprehension. No change there. [emoji2957]

Doesn't change a thing, its gone from we need the backstop to conditions ( none of which we are aware of yet).

The EU hard-line is crumbling in the face of a no-deal.

As I've stated before, the backstop was confected to keep us in by obstructing the process of meaningfull negotiations, now that the EU realise it's not going to work anymore they are starting to compromise [emoji23]

 

[Atilla]

Doesn't change a thing, its gone from we need the backstop to conditions ( none of which we are aware of yet).

Well it does matter as it happens because you are not privy to lil ol mr Johnson's been talkin bout? You trust him one min and then you don't.

You are an opportunist who leaps on what he thinks he hears whether it aligns with your beliefs and views.

Johnson has the traits of madman who can not come to terms with reality. Will not be told. The response is to shut down debate or boot out any opposing voices.

Personally, I don't think he is bovvered how Brexit turns out coz he is a self entitled snot, useless POS who is inbred by the establishment to serve their purpose. Public are going along with the manipulation unaware of much. He will simply have his name in the history books and that will be good enough for his ego.

As with Bliar, BJ will be remembered for what a big eff up he made of it all.

Cameron prog on BBC1 was interesting last night. Where I did agree with him was that the referendum coincided with refugee crises which the EU totally got wrong. Didn't touch on UK actions in US plans to bomb the sh!t out of the ME over throwing stable regimes making millions homeless refugees but that's not what Brexit is about is it?

 

[timsk]

Is there anything expressed in this YouTube vid' either by interviewer or interviewee that isn't 100% bang on the money? Nope, there ain't! Top notch stuff from Julia Hartley-Brewer and Brendan O'Neill. Enjoy . . .

 

[Signalcalc]

Well it does matter as it happens because you are not privy to lil ol mr Johnson's been talkin bout? You trust him one min and then you don't.

You are an opportunist who leaps on what he thinks he hears whether it aligns with your beliefs and views.

Johnson has the traits of madman who can not come to terms with reality. Will not be told. The response is to shut down debate or boot out any opposing voices.

Personally, I don't think he is bovvered how Brexit turns out coz he is a self entitled snot, useless POS who is inbred by the establishment to serve their purpose. Public are going along with the manipulation unaware of much. He will simply have his name in the history books and that will be good enough for his ego.

As with Bliar, BJ will be remembered for what a big eff up he made of it all.

Cameron prog on BBC1 was interesting last night. Where I did agree with him was that the referendum coincided with refugee crises which the EU totally got wrong. Didn't touch on UK actions in US plans to bomb the sh!t out of the ME over throwing stable regimes making millions homeless refugees but that's not what Brexit is about is it?

Strangely enough I find myself nodding in agreement, I don't like establishment snots either, and considering most MPs are that.....

Whilst on the subject of legacies, old Druncker doesn't want to be remembered for a crappy legacy either on his way out next month, hence they are starting to talk, funny ting dat.