Brexit and the Consequences

timsk said:
Atilla,
If it's not your intention to cause offence then I suggest you try harder to do what you said you were going to do a few pages back as part of your New Year's resolution. If you differentiate between Brexiteers on here and those idiots outside Parliament - why imply otherwise. That's a rhetorical question btw - no need to answer - but please reflect on it. Besides which, everyone assumes these people are the nasty face of the hard right. They may well be but, equally, they could just be people who don't give a toss one way or the other about Brexit and are just using it as an excuse to stir up trouble and show off to their friends - assuming they have any. Or, perhaps, they're actually remainers playing silly buggers, knowing that fellow remainers will respond in the way that you have and automatically assume they're Brexiteers and then tar all 17.4 million of us with the same brush.
Tim.
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Tim

IMO one of the saddest things about the whole saga has been the huge degree of intolerance and ill-will shown by too many people on either side. Whilst there has always been plenty of intolerance and ill-will from the extremist fringes (usually left/right) the vast majority of people have always respected the opposing views and engaged in civil debate.
 
timsk said:
As you know perfectly well, although the yobs may be aligning themselves with Brexiteers - we are most definitely NOT aligning ourselves with them. I no more think Ms. Soubry is a Nazi fascist any more than I hope and assume she doesn't think I'm a brain dead, racist, xenophobic bigot. It's precisely the sort of extreme polarised thinking that you've outlined in your post that's the root cause of the division and bitterness that exists around Brexit. What you write is not only absolute rubbish - it's offensive - as you're implying that I, Sig', c_v and other Brexiteers on here are no better than these morons. Shame on you for even thinking it - let alone posting it. Please amend/delete your post and I'll respond in kind.
:mad:
Tim.
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Hi Tim, once again I am sincerely sorry as I'm not trying to upset you or Brexiteers but more highlighting an observation that should give one cause for concern. It is a significant consequence of Brexit. That is race relations, something that is likely to continue and get worse imo if Brexit materialises.

I should perhaps rephrase as I do see your point. The Nazi fascist yobs are aligning them selves with Brexiteers as a way to further their agenda.

This is not a reflection on you, fwiw I'm happy to see your strong reaction denouncing and distinguishing your repulsion at any association with them.

Before the referendum, there was a poster of a skin head shouting abuse at an Indian woman in traditional clothing. If I recall that poster stirred quite a bit of outrage as well. Sadly I do feel racism is on the increase and that poster portrayal is likely to become reality.

Similarly, one of the BBC news readers whilst standing on the pavement with his son. Some guy walking up to him and said to his face, go back home. He said before the referendum in his 40+ years he never has such an encounter.

Anyhow, I feel these racist frictions are on the increase and will continue so. Pandora's box is opened. intolerance will grow to the detriment of UK and her standing on the global stage.
 
Just watched the Brexit play. Brilliant campaign. One might have got fed up (me anyway!!) with “take back control” but it was tremendously well thought out and “project fear” cleverly turned against the remainers despite the campaigns own scaremongering (all those millions of Turks etc).

Given the later posts here I was taken with one of the final scenes - between the two rival protagonists - and the long term ramifications of the hate that was unleashed.
 
Atilla said:
Before the referendum, there was a poster of a skin head shouting abuse at an Indian woman in traditional clothing. If I recall that poster stirred quite a bit of outrage as well. Sadly I do feel racism is on the increase and that poster portrayal is likely to become reality.

Similarly, one of the BBC news readers whilst standing on the pavement with his son. Some guy walking up to him and said to his face, go back home. He said before the referendum in his 40+ years he never has such an encounter.

Anyhow, I feel these racist frictions are on the increase and will continue so. Pandora's box is opened. intolerance will grow to the detriment of UK and her standing on the global stage.
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I feel this is a good example of how the MSM works its propaganda magic and sucks people into believing the narrative they present. I'm assuming that these racist abuse encounters were filmed, so that there is some evidence? A static poster is like a photograph - it can be manipulated, video can be also, but not as easy to do so. Has it ever occurred to you that some of these incidents may have been contrived and are therefore either not representative or completely fake?

I am not saying that racism doesn't exist, but if it was as bad as it is being portrayed here and was as a direct result of Brexit and was occurring on a daily basis, don't you think we would have an endless stream of it splashed across the media?

This Soubry incident is a prime example where they portrayed Gerard Batten as racist because he was in a selfy with one of the guys shouting insults, to what end? Has it ever occurred to you that it is the MSM that causes most of the division and stirs up alot of the 'so called' hatred that is apparently portrayed (if it's not manufactured).

Or are you just an MSM sap believing whatever fake news the Guardianista and Daily Mail churns out on a daily basis?
 
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So top spooks and former generals now writing to Tory MPs to urge them not to vote for TM deal based on the threat to national security as large sections would come under the command of the EU.

More predictions coming true.

A shame remainers can’t see how this affects us as a nation. The focus on the money is wrong. There is an economic case for sharing intelligence and military assets, yes agreed, but the case is just not strong enough when it comes to national [and global] security.

The EU cannot be trusted in more ways than one.
 
Signalcalc said:
If anyone has the answer it has got to be Farage, Soubrey is a snowflake in comparison, in fact most MPs are snowflakes.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1082523765114892288/pu/vid/1280x720/ecrrVvI8TYMwIxQV.mp4?tag=8
Click to expand...


Coming back to this snowflake term... Apparently three bodies have been locked up for threatening Anna Soubry.

Here is one.
Man jailed for 'Jo Cox' threat to Nottingham MP Anna Soubry


You have to admire the metal of this wonderful lady standing up for her vision of Britain and speaking up for Parliament as her duty against a volume of threats and abusive emails.

In contrast I find Farage and Boris weak and feeble. Sniping from the sidelines and hardly true leaders. They've melted away and Farage relinquishing leadership at the very time when he should have stepped up efforts with UKIP.


So your assertion that Anna Soubry is a snowflake has me scratching my bold head. :unsure:
 
Atilla said:
So your assertion that Anna Soubry is a snowflake has me scratching my bold head. :unsure:
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Scratch no longer...

Snowflake is a 2010s derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are over-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. Common usages include the terms special snowflake, Generation Snowflake, and snowflake as a politicised insult.
 
Atilla said:
Here is one.
Man jailed for 'Jo Cox' threat to Nottingham MP Anna Soubry
Click to expand...

TBH I am not sure if that is justified or not, in the old days probably nothing would have happened, but the times they have a changed and people are literally living on a knife edge of falling foul of hate speech laws, especially in the current climate.

On the one hand we can expect Judges to be be over zealous even without it being a high profile incident involving an MP, on the other he did make an indirect death threat with reference to Joe Cox, a very distasteful insult, obviously new hate speech laws mean it was only going to go one way.

Unfortunately the powers that be appear to be over zealous with people that are nowhere near as overt as this jailed moron.
 
Atilla said:
Why is Soubrey a snowflake?
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Snowflake - from Brendan O'Neill

snowflake.jpg


 
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Brendan O'Neill is a bit of a smart alek isn't he.

Based on those definitions of snowflake I reckon it's those thugs who can't handle intelligent opposition.

Three men locked up for threatening behaviour and that's on top of all the hate mate and abuse she receives in the post day after day for the last two years for fulfilling her parliamentary duty.

She didn't look intimidated by all those over grown apes did she?

Perhaps Brendan O'Neill should be sent some death threats and some to his grandmother too, day after day constant abuse and followed up with some thugs following him shouting abuse close up to his face and then let's see how he stands up to scrutiny.


He certainly has some perverse views. Personally, I agree with Anna Soubry and find him vile and disgusting.
In his 2012 Huffington Post article titled 'If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself',[4] O'Neill argued against victims of sexual abuse by high-profile individuals coming forward publicly, arguing that "I think there is more virtue in keeping the abuse as a firm part of your past, rather than offering it up to a scandal-hungry media and abuse-obsessed society that are desperate for more episodes of perversion to pore over".[4]
 
"What we can now see is that these past two years have come at a terrible opportunity cost. Our countries, and our elites in particular, could have accepted the new reality and acted on it with good faith, in the interests of their country. Instead a precedent has been set that will not end in this electoral cycle or any other in the coming years: a situation in which accepting the results of a vote becomes a matter of choice and the idea that the public’s decision is final moves from being a convention to a quirk. Our politics has been rancid before. But rarely has a component so toxic been released from such a height as this ongoing failure, as we start 2019, to accept that 2016 happened at all."

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/01/28/snowplow-politics/
 
Atilla said:
Brendan O'Neill is a bit of a smart alek isn't he.

Based on those definitions of snowflake I reckon it's those thugs who can't handle intelligent opposition.

Three men locked up for threatening behaviour and that's on top of all the hate mate and abuse she receives in the post day after day for the last two years for fulfilling her parliamentary duty.

She didn't look intimidated by all those over grown apes did she?

Perhaps Brendan O'Neill should be sent some death threats and some to his grandmother too, day after day constant abuse and followed up with some thugs following him shouting abuse close up to his face and then let's see how he stands up to scrutiny.


He certainly has some perverse views. Personally, I agree with Anna Soubry and find him vile and disgusting.
In his 2012 Huffington Post article titled 'If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself',[4] O'Neill argued against victims of sexual abuse by high-profile individuals coming forward publicly, arguing that "I think there is more virtue in keeping the abuse as a firm part of your past, rather than offering it up to a scandal-hungry media and abuse-obsessed society that are desperate for more episodes of perversion to pore over".[4]
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All you are doing is finding ways to discredit the person which therefore justifies discreting everything that person says from that point forward, a favoured tactic of those with no argument.

The snowflake still stands, she didn't exactly stand-up for the 'strong woman MP' by throwing a tantrum and stomping out in a huff now did she?
 
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Atilla said:
Perhaps Brendan O'Neill should be sent some death threats and some to his grandmother too, day after day constant abuse and followed up with some thugs following him shouting abuse close up to his face and then let's see how he stands up to scrutiny.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't listened to a word he said have you?
 
What a shambles Parlt. has become.

Jerry Clarkson and Paxman for PM and deputy.
 
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