Brexit and the Consequences

[forker]

Breaking news.

Canada abandons trade deal talks with the EU after 7 years of trying.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37731955

So, if the EU is incapable of acting like a grown up, then I fail to see how the UK can get any kind of deal with the EU. Therefore, hard Brexit is the most likely outcome.:clap::clap::clap:

it wouldn't have gone any other way. Put 27 nations around a table and ask them to agree a deal with another external nation is like asking a pig to fly

 

[counter_violent]

it wouldn't have gone any other way. Put 27 nations around a table and ask them to agree a deal with another external nation is like asking a pig to fly

Paul Tudor Jones used the same line regarding OPEC. He was right

 

[Signalcalc]

All we need to do now is create a trade deal with Canada :clap:

 

[Atilla]

"The recovery of the 2 million people London lost from 1939 to 1981"

1956 the British Nationality Act allowed 800 million subjects in the British empire to immigrate. Economic migrants rose from 3000 per year in 1956 to 46,800 in 1956 and 136,400 in 1961. In 1962 the UK government passed an act to control migration requiring immigrants to have a job before they arrived. in the 1970s an average of 72,000 immigrants were settling in the UK every year from the commonwealth. There was also an influx of 20,00 Hungarians in 1956 following the Hungarian revolution.

Yes the professor is right that immigration has increased population. The problem is Atilla, you and Marc Champion of Bloomberg are tying to slice it as though EU migration is entirely responsible - why else would it be in context of an article titled "What Will Become of London After Brexit?"

The cherry on the cake though is this snippet from the professor that you have added as though it provides rich context to this deeply flawed perspective. here it is in case you missed it:

"The majority of Britons who voted for Brexit, said Gordon, were also protesting against London"

So how did the professor ask over 8.7 million leave voters why they voted? How else could anyone make a claim to knowing a reason behind the majority voting a specific way? let me tell you how

On the whole agree with your post but do find the Bloomberg article a more fair and balanced write up then the Telegraph.

It's well documented the increased turn out has been attributed to disenfranchised voters who don't usually vote because elections don't seem to matter for some people. Extra 2m voters were also spread out across the Northern territories. 2.8m European expats were denied the vote. People still talk of majority. I thought Clarke was brill on Question time.

London predominantly voted to remain. Bear in mind London's working population is approx 15-17m so the same number as those who live in London, travel in daily from outside of London.


In general I do not see how Brexit helps London's position or the rest of UK. On the contrary costs seem to be mounting and it's going to take lot skilled creative accounting to offset that against the £9bn savings.

I also don't see how London coming down a peg or two will help the rest of the country. London Clearing is one business that most now say will leave the City sooner or later with a few other bank employees.

Also, raising production costs and wages will eventually wipe out the currency benefit as has been the case historically.

Once upon a time £1 = $10. Now it's approx., £1 = $1.22.

You can say your house is worth £500K as much as you like. If the market isn't prepared to pay more than £400K you ain't selling. One can talk it up as much as one likes but that 20% drop is pretty significant.

Londoners already losing through wealth effect which will ripple out to the rest of the country too. All very sad and so unnecessary.

 

[Atilla]

Forkem over Atilla.................outside - now

Do you think I'll have a chance at becoming a UKIP leader if I do

 

[Atilla]

Breaking news.

Canada abandons trade deal talks with the EU after 7 years of trying.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37731955

So, if the EU is incapable of acting like a grown up, then I fail to see how the UK can get any kind of deal with the EU. Therefore, hard Brexit is the most likely outcome.:clap::clap::clap:

Well technically speaking Theresa May has spelt it out very clearly that what we want is a special deal that is tailored to the UK and UK only. We are big enough and important enough to request one. So no Canada, Norwegian or Swiss models.

There is no hard or soft exit. Just Brexit. Do try and keep up CV you being a Tory foot soldier and all that. More of a closet UKIP if you ask me.

 

[Splitlink]

I am a "Remainer" but the Belgium problem regarding the EU trade agreement with Canada has not done the "Remain" argument any good.

Politicians will brush over it but I an unable to do that. It is seven years of negotiations for nothing.

 

[sminicooper]

I am a "Remainer" but the Belgium problem regarding the EU trade agreement with Canada has not done the "Remain" argument any good.

Politicians will brush over it but I an unable to do that. It is seven years of negotiations for nothing.

It's just symptomatic of a socialist lefty organisation: everything done by committee, a million percent supposedly democratic and no grasp of the real world.

 

[Splitlink]

It's just symptomatic of a socialist lefty organisation: everything done by committee, a million percent supposedly democratic and no grasp of the real world.

I have no logical argument to put forward. Belgium is a very poor country, and has had no government for ages, from what I have heard. Because of an internal disagreement, they are able to put an end to negotiations that all the other members, apparently, are willing to sign up to.

Belgium is one of the early members of the EU. The latest members cannot be blamed for this.

Another point is that they can do it again.

 

[forker]

Well technically speaking Theresa May has spelt it out very clearly that what we want is a special deal that is tailored to the UK and UK only. We are big enough and important enough to request one. So no Canada, Norwegian or Swiss models.

There is no hard or soft exit. Just Brexit. Do try and keep up CV you being a Tory foot soldier and all that. More of a closet UKIP if you ask me.

You have to remember that we are the eu's biggest customer which is very different from eu's relationship with Canada. It's not apples to apples and they would shoot themselves in the foot if they tried the same shambles with us.

 

[forker]

I am a "Remainer" but the Belgium problem regarding the EU trade agreement with Canada has not done the "Remain" argument any good.

Politicians will brush over it but I an unable to do that. It is seven years of negotiations for nothing.

That's what happens when you need unanimous agreement with 27 countries. This is a major reason why the eu has failed. If it were more open to trade then it would have in a much stronger place and we probably wouldn't be dealing with brexit.

7 years is beyond a joke. Those retards really haven't a clue how to run the eu.

 

[Solas0077]

Only fools will join a centralized government of 28 countries and in my experience Brits are not fools.

 

[Atilla]

You have to remember that we are the eu's biggest customer which is very different from eu's relationship with Canada. It's not apples to apples and they would shoot themselves in the foot if they tried the same shambles with us.

I feel we have already shot our selves in the foot and I wouldn't put it past vested minority interests doing the same now that we are no longer in cooperative mode but one that is in competitive divorce.

The view about Belgium in these negotiations was that EU wanted to be more democratic and allowed a vote for each of her three regions instead of taking the country as one block vote.

So the EU can do not right with respect to giving democracy or acting as a decision making body. People who are anti-EU are bunch of smart aleks who are on a binge trip.

Listening to Leanne Wood the leader of Plaid Cymru on BBC News I'm kind of stunned listening to an 180 degree turn considering Wales voted Brexit. What a load of numpties. She either doesn't know they voted out or there is considerable regret

As a Green supporter too I object to the transporting live/dead animals/meat across vast distances. It simply makes no sense in terms of climate change and trying to sell animals cheaper than what can be produced endogenously.

Same applies to NZ or Auzzie beef. It's crazy. We have farms in the UK that can do that as well as the Belgiums. Does it really work out cheaper??? Does it really? I don't trust what other nations put into their animal feeds either.

Canadians have beef with Yanks but nothing to stop those GM hormone infested cheap feeds getting into the system and coming to EU via the back Canadian door. Simply strike the pork and cattle off the deal and Belgium will agree.


Finally, I wouldn't take it for granted that EU will grant favourable deals to UK by virtue of our size or because we buy more from them. I don't believe reason prevailed in the Brexit referendum and see no reason to expect it from the Europeans. There are benefactors from Brexit in EU now rubbing hands with glee. Why should they vote against their interests at this golden opportunity for them???

 

[Atilla]

I have no logical argument to put forward. Belgium is a very poor country, and has had no government for ages, from what I have heard. Because of an internal disagreement, they are able to put an end to negotiations that all the other members, apparently, are willing to sign up to.

Belgium is one of the early members of the EU. The latest members cannot be blamed for this.

Another point is that they can do it again.

A due consideration here is Canada has the WTO facility to trade with the EU as being proposed by the UK.

So I'm puzzled as to why Canada should endure a 7 year trade agreement CETA deal with the EU and be smothered with EU regulation and controls compared to just simply trading under WTO???

Does this question not raise issues about hard Brexit belief that WTO is just as good with no consequence on current situ?

Why should EU 27 nations not consider their self national interests and vote against a UK deal as UK pursues her national self interests leaving the EU?

Road driving system is a bunch of rules that applies to all cars and drivers. Does a Rolls Royce driver claim more right to road space than a mini cooper? Does mini cooper drivers give way to BMW X5. Some may think because one is bigger one has more claim to road space but frankly speaking it just doesn't work that way.

Awfully getting messy and this is not even the start.


My worry is if we let Canadians in next thing you know; NZ and Auzzies will want deals then we'll really be up the Khyber

With my EU hat on - I'd stick to what we have and get rid of a few more laggards who don't have what it takes.

 

[Splitlink]

So I'm puzzled as to why Canada should endure a 7 year trade agreement CETA deal with the EU and be smothered with EU regulation and controls compared to just simply trading under WTO???

Why should EU 27 nations not consider their self national interests and vote against a UK deal as UK pursues her national self interests leaving the EU?

I'm quite sure that Canada has its reason for wanting this deal but that is neither here not there, in this case, is it?

Belgium has blocked the will of the other member states, which is one of the reasons given for Brexit. We knew this could happen before, of course, but that it has happened at this particular time is very unfortunate for us and opportune for Brexiters.

 

[forker]

We are not like Canada, do you really think the eu will shoot themselves in the face to spite us for leaving. The reason frenchie and king dingaling junkie are throwing their toys out their prams with brexit is because they know this. They can b!tch as much as they like but it isn't going to change the fact that a sizeable proportion of gdp is derived from UK trade

 

[forker]

Last year 290 billion eu earnings from UK trade (to put it into perspective). They sell more to us than we do to them. Only an idiot would say to us no deal.
What frenchie should do is look in the mirror and say to himself. I am prepared to take a hit on gdp to spite those English rats. Will see how he manages in the next elections as a result of QE needed to pump up their economy, employment loss, no wage growth, higher taxes, recession....all because he wants to prove a point and be an idiot.

 

[Atilla]

I'm quite sure that Canada has its reason for wanting this deal but that is neither here not there, in this case, is it?

Belgium has blocked the will of the other member states, which is one of the reasons given for Brexit. We knew this could happen before, of course, but that it has happened at this particular time is very unfortunate for us and opportune for Brexiters.

I was wondering if this Belgium move is simply a shot across the Brexiters bowls with respect to just how intransigent some members can be on reaching agreements.

This cuts both ways for Brexiters, for them and against imo.


Will of the members has economics behined it. Once again being self sufficient in food and supporting strategic industries like farming should not be dispensed with for simply profits today. Having endured starvation and food rationing in times of war and crises is it right that we should be dependent on food from 000s of miles away?

I think after the Brexit vote EU is looking within and will come stronger together.

I love Canada and Canadians not against them in any way just from operational management perspective. As mentioned before I think we should just simply drop pork and cattle goods from the deal and job done

 

[Atilla]

Last year 290 billion eu earnings from UK trade (to put it into perspective). They sell more to us than we do to them. Only an idiot would say to us no deal.
What frenchie should do is look in the mirror and say to himself. I am prepared to take a hit on gdp to spite those English rats. Will see how he manages in the next elections as a result of QE needed to pump up their economy, employment loss, no wage growth, higher taxes, recession....all because he wants to prove a point and be an idiot.

Obviously we are on the opposite sides here as that's pretty much how I feel about Brexiters. Sadly its a decision UK has partially taken. :whistling

 

[forker]

http://news.sky.com/story/chris-grayling-convinced-of-tariff-free-trade-deal-after-brexit-10629341