Binexx being absorbed into cityindex

[stevespray]

This whole subject of delaying order execution and ‘backing away’ has been raised quite a few times before. I am currently involved in a dispute with IG Index over these very points. The Financial Ombudsman Service has promised me that they will conduct an investigation into my complaint and they should be proceeding with that very shortly. It has taken the best part of two years to reach this point so fingers crossed.

The problem with Binary Bets is that they don’t fall into the same category as other financial spread bets and as such the companies are less well regulated. This needs to change in my opinion. The ‘delayed order execution’ is the oldest trick in the book (in the terms of electronic spread betting). The companies simply use subsequent movements in the markets to establish the financial viability of the bet order. In effect your trading costs go up and the spreads are obviously significantly wider that they first appear.

Myself and quite a few people I know have been ‘persuaded’ to stop trading with some of these companies. Obviously the longer they delay an order the more likelihood there is of it being rejected. I would suggest that some of these companies don’t want customers to have a 100% reliable trading platform. A 100% reliable platform would mean that people could develop systems which might take advantage of ‘instant fills’. This point shouldn’t be overlooked.

I would suggest, to people who still have instant fills, that it is a case of ‘make hay while the sun shines’ – if you have a strategy whereby you can scalp small but regular profits then go for it. You just need to be aware that if you win too much or too regularly then the companies will start screwing with your execution procedures because they know that this can upset even the most experienced of traders. The problem that the companies have is that they can not hedge their exposure on their binary markets. If you win then they lose. If you win regularly then you’ll tend also to increase your bet size which obviously hurts them further. People placed on manual dealing are placed there because they are not economically viable if they get instant fills.

Steve.

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

Good post Steve. Why have they taken so long to investigate this issue? Also, I've only been into binary betting for around a year now, I'm guessing that IG were the first to launch?

 

[nutter punter]

Good post Steve. Why have they taken so long to investigate this issue? Also, I've only been into binary betting for around a year now, I'm guessing that IG were the first to launch?

Finspreads are the worst for closing accounts. They are completely clueless and as a result once you win any money off them they close your internet trading account and suggest phone only, which as we all know is impossible to use.

 

[Visaria]

Good post Steve. Why have they taken so long to investigate this issue? Also, I've only been into binary betting for around a year now, I'm guessing that IG were the first to launch?

Are you now on manual then?

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

Are you now on manual then?

Still on automatic for now, I generally don't trade above £5/pt.

 

[feenix]

Why bother with Finspreads ? BB/IG have a much greater range of types of bet and you can certainly trade over £5 without any problem.

 

[Visaria]

Well manual (level 1) with IG/BB is like they delay the trade a couple of secs then software checks, but they still fill if you within 2 pts of so. If it is 10 against you they fill

Manual (level 2) is bad. Some guy vets each trade and it can take 30 secs to fill. Random results depending on who vets the trade. Often they don't fill unless it moves against you.

Feenix, check out Bintrader's post (above) and other posts re bb/ig. It does appear that there can be problems with trading with them.

Having said that, what sort of size and how many trades were you doing with IG/BB to be put on manual Bintrader?

 

[feenix]

Visaria

It's not the number of trades or the size of the bets that matter (provided they are within the max of £100). As I understand it, when your cumulative profits reach a certain figure, it is then that IG/BB become difficult and delay execution.

Feenix

 

[Visaria]

Visaria

It's not the number of trades or the size of the bets that matter (provided they are within the max of £100). As I understand it, when your cumulative profits reach a certain figure, it is then that IG/BB become difficult and delay execution.

Feenix

Okay, any idea as to how much in profits before they start becoming difficult?

 

[stevespray]

I'm not sure that the size of the profit is the trigger. I know people who have been switched to manual dealing after making quite small sums (just a few thousand pounds) whilst others have racked up a serious five figure sum before suffering the same fate. My opinion is that someone just spots you for some reason. I had an account which was fine until I starting making some sizable withdrawals - it was almost like they realised that I was taking the money and they knew they weren't going to see it come back again so why make it easy for me. I had another account which started having problems when I started letting some 'daily' bets run until expiry - In this case I think they just got alerted because they had to keep settling winners on my account. Letting bets expire also raises concerns regarding the possibility that you might be laying off some of your position with someone else on a similar market. The spreadbetting companies don't like this because it skews their business model especially in trending markets.

Steve.

 

[Bintrader]

Steve

I certainly think it is to do with how much you take out of the account, since while it is still in there there is always a chance you will lose it. But ultimately I think the application of delayed/manual trading (and I'm convinced there are two type/stages) to down to human intervention. You guys on auto just need to steadily take money. If you do 1000s a week there are going to stop you.

I'm not sure that the size of the profit is the trigger. I know people who have been switched to manual dealing after making quite small sums (just a few thousand pounds) whilst others have racked up a serious five figure sum before suffering the same fate. My opinion is that someone just spots you for some reason. I had an account which was fine until I starting making some sizable withdrawals - it was almost like they realised that I was taking the money and they knew they weren't going to see it come back again so why make it easy for me. I had another account which started having problems when I started letting some 'daily' bets run until expiry - In this case I think they just got alerted because they had to keep settling winners on my account. Letting bets expire also raises concerns regarding the possibility that you might be laying off some of your position with someone else on a similar market. The spreadbetting companies don't like this because it skews their business model especially in trending markets.

Steve.

 

[apples10]

Now done quite a few trades on City.

Overall system OK, and does give fills (small size), even had fills in my favour when quote has moved which has surprised me. Major improvement is that as the strike is passed they still quote as opposed to what used to happen at Binexx, although on the Dow hourly they do 'go telephone' on occasion, so avoid that one.

MAJOR PROBLEM though is the lack of markets on their site.

Why, when they relaunched 2-weeks ago they didn't offer a full suite of markets is anybodies guess, it would have made much better business.

So what happens, they send out loads of e-mails and mailshots- get people interested in these products - so the markets are having a good day today - people log-on, go to the FTSE and Europe Binary pages - what do they see - absolutely every price is either at 100 or 0 at 2pm! - doh, if newbies or present binary clients are keen then they're off to IG.

If City Index read these pages - which they should, as all their competitors do - they should get their act together and quick. Whats the delay? Not even a FTSE hourly yet, yet there was one on Binexx - ?? These products are so easy to price - get an excel person to link a model into your pricing system - 10 minutes work? We all want a competitive alternative to IG, so pull your socks up.

Just my view, but sure its shared by other Binary punters.

 

[apples10]

Now done quite a few trades on City.

- absolutely every price is either at 100 or 0 at 2pm! - .

Sorry, was exaggerating

- the DAX >25 is 80.7 - 85.7 with the index +61.88, of you like those trades and the FTSE >+50 83.9 - 88.9 with index +78.5.

 

[Visaria]

Yes, I too have done some business with City. I certainly share your view re their lack of basic markets (especially on the FTSE - no hourlies!).

I'm not so sure regarding fills - with me they seem to only fill when the next quote is in their favour. They're not exactly quick either to fill or reject, it often takes them 20 secs + to do this.

I would say that Bin/IG, as long as you're still on the automatic system, is the best. Fin in my opinion is the worst. A friend of mine who is on manual with them requested a quote and when it did eventually appear(usual 1 minute delay!), it was valid for only 2 seconds! (I saw this with my own eyes).

I suspect that IG/Bin are very confident in what they are doing in terms of their risk management and are consequently making a packet whereas the other players, notably Fin, are scared s***less if someone takes £5 off them.

 

[feenix]

It's quite interesting to read/listen to the announcement of the IG half year results on the IG group site which shows that they make healthy profits from financial binaries. They appear to put this down to the wide range of products that they offer. They seem to be light years ahead of the competition. P.S. I don't work for IG !

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

I've had a similar experience to the above and have given up on City and Fins. City were taking far too long to decide whether to accept the bet or not (often 30 seconds or so). I made a bit with Fins and then they started taking about 30 seconds to quote me a price, which is then valid for at most 10 seconds and sometimes only 2-3 seconds! Sometimes I wonder how these firms can possibly expect to attract business if they get scared when a punter has a profitable week.

 

[Bintrader]

No sure about fins commitment, but City certainly appear to want to stop you trading. I believe that don't have enough liquidity for a viable system let alone expand their service (if you can call it that). If/when they bring back hourly, be very careful, all trades are manual.

I've had a similar experience to the above and have given up on City and Fins. City were taking far too long to decide whether to accept the bet or not (often 30 seconds or so). I made a bit with Fins and then they started taking about 30 seconds to quote me a price, which is then valid for at most 10 seconds and sometimes only 2-3 seconds! Sometimes I wonder how these firms can possibly expect to attract business if they get scared when a punter has a profitable week.

 

[adrianallen99]

I'm not sure that the size of the profit is the trigger. I know people who have been switched to manual dealing after making quite small sums (just a few thousand pounds) whilst others have racked up a serious five figure sum before suffering the same fate.
Steve.

I agree I don't think size of profit is the trigger.

I started a Binary account with one company and at first made a bit, lost a bit. Then I started to make consist amounts and was withdrawing £500 a week from my account. I made about £3000 before I was switched to manual. I would get big delays, I would often get logged out after making a bet, then was unable to log back in until the bet had expired (which meant I couldn't sell losing bets) - they made me run through all sorts of rubbish i.e deleting cookies, clearing temp files, upgrading java - I knew it wasnt that because I could log onto my wifes account fine.

I just took my profits and moved somewhere else.

 

[adrianallen99]

I found an interesting problem with one spread betting companies front ends as well.

I could buy losing hourlies just before they expired for 3 points, then 5 mins after they expired the bets would reopen, and the amounts set back to starting values, at which point I would sell my expired bet for 47 points. Making 44 points profit. Unfortunately they fixed this after 2 hour, but they didnt ask for the money back

 

[nutter punter]

Try Cantor Index if you want a real joke firm. They reject 80% of trades if not more and the ones they do accept are normally queued till they are on side (for them).

As I have said before if you are trading hourlies, do so in Betfair where there is no time delay/bets queuing/spreads or rejections. That way we all benefit.