Backgrounds of Successful Traders

[Badassras]

Hi new here,

Very nice forum.

I definately believe you should just trust yourself, there no point passing it off to a broker to guess what to do with your money. That way you can't blame anyone else for your losses.
It comes down to guts and discipline, set your own parameters and stick to them.
Don't trade against the trend. (over the period you trade)
Be aware of market data due out and stear clear of newsletters.

I position trade cfd/spreadbet, but only liquid instruments.

 

[TheBramble]

you defined guts as the ability to act without hesitation where survival is at stake.
I fail to see how that is directly benificial to trading.

Not exactly. I put that in a wider context of honing skills and learning abilities - which is I'm sure you'll agree - is a useful subset of skills for a trader (or anyone) to attempt to inculcate.

Though it is a good thing to think independently in the market , this does not always mean against the grain , sometimes going with the grain is equally desirable.

Quote of the day. Emphatically agree.

 

[wisestguy]

>> evaluation of your odds. this is actually the only place where math, tech skills etc...... MAY be beneficial. >>I personally trade on odds 75/25 in my favour or better - mostly derived from my experience, but >>sometimes from such dishonourable sources as old mate's tip....

yes, but some people are making out like this is rocket science .



>> GUTS - by which i mean once u determined your odds are 75/25 or better u go for it instead of debating >>for hours what it means from mathematical perspective as any normal PhD wud do


Again ,you hardly need to be SAS for this.


Bramble ,

>>Not exactly. I put that in a wider context of honing skills and learning abilities - which is I'm sure you'll >>agree - is a useful subset of skills for a trader (or anyone) to attempt to inculcate.

this isn't what you originally said . And I am unsure that " guts " will help you hone skills any more than say being a good reader would . In fact I would pick the reader over the man with " guts " , since this is much more a mental than physical activity.

 

[wisestguy]

I should add also that a military background is not a necessarily a bad thing, Randy mackay , Marty Schwartz both were in the army and became MW's.

But a lot of them had - surprise , surprise - a financial background before they actually traded .

Monroe Trout was assistant to a trader , Druckenmiller and Dreihaus were both stock analyst.

And of course the turtle traders who came from all sorts of backgrounds.

 

[china white]

>>
>> GUTS - by which i mean once u determined your odds are 75/25 or better u go for it instead of debating >>for hours what it means from mathematical perspective as any normal PhD wud do


Again ,you hardly need to be SAS for this.

very well said WG. Successful trading is at the end just common sense and u don't need to be a Mucho Macho to have that. The problem is most ppl get their hands shaking when all they have to do is to execute what common sense is telling them

 

[wisestguy]

CW,

>>very well said WG. Successful trading is at the end just common sense and u don't need to be a Mucho >>Macho to have that. The problem is most ppl get their hands shaking when all they have to do is to >>execute what common sense is telling them


wow , if that is the case then these ppl have serious psychological trading problems to deal with.

It would seem to me that they invest to much psychological value in trading , they need to quell that 1st and then trade o/w every trade is going to be like dodging a minefield.

 

[TheBramble]

wow , if that is the case then these ppl have serious psychological trading problems to deal with.

It would seem to me that they invest to much psychological value in trading , they need to quell that 1st and then trade o/w every trade is going to be like dodging a minefield.

Opinion is divided.

80% of those who have experience in trading (successfully) attribute greater significance to the psychological aspects and issues of trading than the mechanical or systematic.

I'm pleased we have in you someone who, although ostensibly in the minority 20%, can lead us into greater clarity and better trading.

Now, what was it you were going to say that would be useful to us all tomorrow morning...?

 

[des44]

Great point.

d-
*wonders if he'll get the hint*

 

[china white]

Bramble and WG - we actually may be talking about the same thing.

I probably was not too clear from starters - it may be that having lived in Saudi lately I acquired this Arabic manner of talking too vaguely with a mandatory "inshala" evry other word

I fully agree with WG that trading itself shud actually be quite mechanical w/o bursts of tears coming from joy or sorrow.... like pro bomb diffusers do it every day - it is their job. Psychological aspects of trading shud actually be sorted out quite early in a trading career

However by GUTS I am meaning being in a job where u have to assume command and responsibility day in day out. Trading and bomb diffusion come to mind as handy examples of such jobs

 

[wisestguy]

>>I'm pleased we have in you someone who, although ostensibly in the minority 20%, can lead us into >>greater clarity and better trading.

I firmly believe the trading process should be in most part machine like.
This takes away most of the psychological pressure that a non mech system would impose.

eg) if I am totally discretionary in approach , I might trade only gut feel , no matter what the price action is doing , in that it has no pre determination for me .

invariably, on any given occasion , I will have loads of self doubt , since my gut may feel one way but I see the price doing the opposite . 1 says sell , 1 says buy , result - fear ,doubt , excitement , confusion and hesitancy . net result - pressure increases , trading results go down .

A near mechanised approach should take all this away . in that one knows when to go in , when to get out , when to take a stoploss ( should always have one ) etc .

the results of trades are nearly always predetermined in this sense . net result - takes away the stupid emotional factors away from trading .

now , all this is still based on physical execution , in that you have a near cast iron plan and it tells you what to do , then you put your finger to the trigger and pull .

if however , you have still problems in execution , then you really have problems and should think about computerising all your trading.

 

[wisestguy]

>>However by GUTS I am meaning being in a job where u have to assume command and responsibility >>day in day out. Trading and bomb diffusion come to mind as handy examples of such jobs


the big difference between trading and bomb defusing is that if you make a mistake in defusing - BOOM , you have half a leg and no hands left . to face this sort of thing requires raw bravery .

you don't need so much bravery for trading , the worst cases are like night and day.

so , if you are saying that even wtih a mechanised plan , you still need GUTS to execute , then you got real problems . see post #69.

 

[china white]

WG - 2 separate things here:

1) u correctly spotted worst case scenario for a bomb diffuser - it is not even instantaneous death it's having to live as a chunk of meat for the rest of your life...... funnily - this is what my bird back in Saudi Arabia was most scared of - she wud constantly go about how much she does not care whether we dead - it's all God's will - but how the prospect of being crippled for the rest of our lives freaks her out.....

2) whats the worst case in trading? absolutely worst? u go bankrupt, your missus leaves u, your mates start talking what loser u r behind your back , u r no longer on China White night club guest list , u start drinking etc... etc.... OF COZ it is not even close to bomb diffuser's worst case (if I thot differently I'd hv still been in Saudi ) BUT for a lot of ppl the prospect of trading full time with this sort of possible consequences requires LOADS of GUTS......

My deliberations probably pertain more to ppl just making their decision to trade full time, not to fossils like ourselves. However I vividly remember my 1st "mentor" in trading (if there is such thing) asking me if I thot abt the possibility of hitting the bottom BEFORE I become good.... Obviously AFTER u r good, u won't hit that bottom

 

[Salty Gibbon]

your missus leaves u,

Surely that's a plus !

u start drinking etc...

Another plus.

Sounds like failure at trading might be worth looking into.

 

[alliance]

Surely that's a plus !

In ur case Salty, it would be...............for her :cheesy:

(sorry, couldn't resist)!

 

[wisestguy]

>>for a lot of ppl the prospect of trading full time with this sort of possible consequences requires LOADS >>of GUTS......

then they have no business trading , if they feel like this . real trading should NOT involve " guts " , that is more for the gambler.


>>However I vividly remember my 1st "mentor" in trading (if there is such thing) asking me if I thot abt the >>possibility of hitting the bottom BEFORE I become good


That is why I never had no mentor . most of them talk crap.

 

[china white]

WG - generally agree, but I personally know a few chaps who were chicken initially but developed into good traders..... there may be different roads to the same destination.

as for guvs and mentors - LOL - I actually learnt loads from them watching them ****-up

 

[chump]

what any person from any background needs is to be able to survive long enough to become good at what you do..rocket scientists who blast off from day one and never look back are far and few between in any pursuit..so what capabilites or characteristics promote that situation ?

 

[wisestguy]

>>WG - generally agree, but I personally know a few chaps who were chicken initially but developed into >>good traders..... there may be different roads to the same destination.


No I'm sorry , that is not right , a large degree of chickeness is a GOOD thing for trading . So you have you buddy lines crossed.

I can't see how being chicken and having guts are the " 2 roads to the same destination " .

see Randy Mackay


>>as for guvs and mentors - LOL - I actually learnt loads from them watching them ****-up


Then how can they be mentors ? you take guys who **** up as mentors ? you are strange indeed .

_________________________________


>>so what capabilites or characteristics promote that situation ?


in terms of this conversation . I say calm and collected over guts , there are NOT the same thing , as some people have tried to confuse the 2 as 1.

 

[JumpOff]

what any person from any background needs is to be able to survive long enough to become good at what you do..rocket scientists who blast off from day one and never look back are far and few between in any pursuit..so what capabilites or characteristics promote that situation ?

A fat bank account and a small trade size might give you some time to learn what the h**l you were doing!
JO

 

[china white]

you take guys who **** up as mentors ? you are strange indeed .

matey - respectfully - before we go into definitions of who is stange and who is not, may I ask u something? did u actually spend any time on any floor? I am not being sarky or something - it's just the way u sound it seems to me u've never been exposed to the real floor "dynamics"... which may be a good thing after all