Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

[trendie]

It sounds like he'd appreciate all ongoing efforts to expose and resist this blatant psyop and planned tyranny.

Whats the psyop?

Do you believe covid exists, or not? (whether its manufactured or natural, is a separate matter)

Do you believe covid is extensive as claimed?

Do you believe the deaths are covid-related?
If not, then what else could be responsible?
Or, are you questioning whether people are dying at all?

If its some kind of psyop, then the "illuminati", or whatever, clearly prefer South Korea and Japan over us, as they seem to have managed their cases.
Or, maybe you dont believe they managed anything, or the reports from those countries are faked.

I am struggling to understand where the psyop is, other than to hide the scale of the governments ineptitude to deliver a science-based response.
This is what happens when the leadership are all Etonian, liberal-arts "classics" types who know more about Greek tragedies and the Illiad than being schooled in modern scientific methods, physics, organic chemistry, biology and the hard sciences.

 

[David Knight]

i dont think we will ever know the truth!

Absolutely!

Obviously, I do respect the principle that we live in a free country and everyone has a choice but in his case, he chose to kill himself and destroy his family. .... I also think that in the final analysis he would have preferred to survive and live out his days in comfort with his family but he had a point to prove and died doing it.

To my mind, his perversity was both incredibly stupid and extremely cruel.

I'm a little confused here. You're saying that had he not been 'perverse' and 'stupid' he would have been cured ?

As I understand it, there is no cure 'until we have the vaccine' So how did he choose t 'kill himself and destroy his family'?

I'm also confused as to wether or not they were forcing the 'cure' on him without his knowlege as this line seems to suggest:

'they took to avoiding all mention of covid and presented the majority of the later treatment as being pneumonia related' (when, presumably they claim it was covid related, which)

Didn't he die of pneumonia, just like many thousands of people? Or did he die of something curable due to obstinacy?

What does it say on the death certificate, death due to Covid or death with Covid? Death from pneumonia is pretty common. Covid has an extremely high survival rate. Most people don't die of flu.

Your definitions of 'perversity' 'stupidity' and 'cruel' differ to mine. Do those definitions apply to the living with wrongthink or only if you die with wrongthink?

'Obviously, I do respect the principle that we live in a free country and everyone has a choice'

Let's keep it that way. I don't want to be tested quarantined, wear a mask, social distance or be vaccinated , carry a medical ID card in order to travel, live and work.

If you want all that I think there is going to be a problem as to how to accommodate both without some sort of 2 tier society- which sounds (to me) like the plan anyway.

 

[cantagril]

I'm a little confused here. You're saying that had he not been 'perverse' and 'stupid' he would have been cured ?
He refused the treatment that would have allowed him to survive and by the time he was being treated properly for the virus the damage was already too much for his heart. I call that stupid and think it perverse.
As I understand it, there is no cure 'until we have the vaccine' So how did he choose t 'kill himself and destroy his family'?
...and as I have said, he most probably would have got through it (just as many people have done) or so the doctors said and I believe them. In the early stages in hospital, he was pretty much OK but kept insisting that because he was fine, he didn't need treatment, didn't have virus and wanted to leave. Needless to say, he wasn't allowed to. Maybe if he'd been allowed to he would have not infected my sister nor one of the nurses who was infected - on a more cheerful note, the nurse is recovering well and I believe her to be already back home.

I'm also confused as to wether or not they were forcing the 'cure' on him without his knowlege as this line seems to suggest:

'they took to avoiding all mention of covid and presented the majority of the later treatment as being pneumonia related' (when, presumably they claim it was covid related, which)
....again, with his wife (my sister) they agreed that if he was to survive he needed the appropriate treatment which was NOT for just for the pneumonia that developed in the later stages.

Didn't he die of pneumonia, just like many thousands of people? Or did he die of something curable due to obstinacy?
Obstinacy, stupidity, perversity - it doesn't matter exactly what you call but he didn't need to die. If I sound a touch angry it's because I am. My B-in-Law was no saint but a decent caring chap nonetheless and he should not have died and would not have died had things been just little bit different.

What does it say on the death certificate, death due to Covid or death with Covid? Death from pneumonia is pretty common. Covid has an extremely high survival rate. Most people don't die of flu.
If he hadn't had the virus he would not have developed pneumonia and he would still be alive today

Your definitions of 'perversity' 'stupidity' and 'cruel' differ to mine. Do those definitions apply to the living with wrongthink or only if you die with wrongthink?
Nothing to do with what anyone thinks. The doctors did not "think" he had the virus, they tested for it and they knew he had it, he was the one who just would not be convinced.

'Obviously, I do respect the principle that we live in a free country and everyone has a choice'

Let's keep it that way. I don't want to be tested quarantined, wear a mask, social distance or be vaccinated , carry a medical ID card in order to travel, live and work.

I don't have a problem - if you choose not to social distance, wear a mask, carry a driving licence, pay taxes or whatever, that's fine with me, just as it would be if you choose to have unprotected sex with someone HIV positive or choose to take heroin. My problem starts when your behaviour puts me or my herd at risk....as de Toqueville had it "The liberty of one citizen ends where the liberty of another citizen begins". If you directly threaten or put at risk me or mine then I would avoid you like the plague (ha ha) if possible and if not, kill you without hesitation and that would be me making my own choice. Just as you put your own personal interests above others, so do I.

If you want all that I think there is going to be a problem as to how to accommodate both without some sort of 2 tier society- which sounds (to me) like the plan anyway.

There already is just that situation. Badly planned, even worse executed and not just two tiers but several.

 

[David Knight]

Whats the psyop?

Do you believe covid exists, or not? (whether its manufactured or natural, is a separate matter)

Do you believe covid is extensive as claimed?

Do you believe the deaths are covid-related?
If not, then what else could be responsible?
Or, are you questioning whether people are dying at all?

If its some kind of psyop, then the "illuminati", or whatever, clearly prefer South Korea and Japan over us, as they seem to have managed their cases.
Or, maybe you dont believe they managed anything, or the reports from those countries are faked.

I am struggling to understand where the psyop is, other than to hide the scale of the governments ineptitude to deliver a science-based response.
This is what happens when the leadership are all Etonian, liberal-arts "classics" types who know more about Greek tragedies and the Illiad than being schooled in modern scientific methods, physics, organic chemistry, biology and the hard sciences.

The biggest obstacle to successful trading is the trader, not the market

The biggest obstacle to finding the truth is the journalist, not the editor


Just for the record. Leicester was never locked down. The trains were running in and out as normal.

We know people who live there and they say it wasn't locked down. You can choose who to believe. Proven sociopaths who are incompetant with no morals or people actually in Leicester.

If you believe Leicester was locked down, you might do what you are told so they don't lie about locking down your town.

In the planned 2nd wave they might actually use the Army to lock you down. They know you're scared about that, but then that makes a nonsense of of Cantagrils statement:

'Obviously, I do respect the principle that we live in a free country and everyone has a choice'


Trendie- IF YOU BELIEVE Liecester was locked down then YOUR reality is that it was locked down. Your fears may be real but the basis for them may be unfounded.

Otherwise, if that was not a psyop, you are forced to jump through the hoop of believing that people in Leicester spread the flu in different ways to people in Runcorn or Dover, or wherever the next planned lock down occurs.

Please demonstrate how that happened- cos I think I missed the official explanation.

You were told it was locked down, did you go there? No doubt many people were locking themselves down.

Did you lock yourself down Trendie? I didn't.


This should be great news to the majority of critical thinkers. Unless old Dave is lying, the strongest weapon the powers that be have is your willingness to comply with their GUIDANCE.

That is why the police have never turned up to fine me for not wearing a mask. Most people are wearing masks (there are many reasons they are wearing them) As time goes on less will wear them and that could be an excuse for a planned '2nd wave' Human nature is often predictable.

Btw. I think Wikipedia has changed its 77th Brigade description Guess the page is getting too much traffic these days, but still has the line-

During the UK government's daily coronavirus briefing, 22 April 2020, Nick Carter confirmed that 77th Brigade are working with the Home Office Rapid Response Unit "helping to quash rumours from misinformation, but also to counter disinformation ..

Knowing that helps us all sleep at night doesn't it Trendie? Don't know how they are medically qualified to perform that task, but I guess they could turn their hand to anything, given the business they are in.

Because you know how much the people who run the Government hate (are scared of ) wrongthink. Who wouldn't want old Nick to tell us which medical opinion to follow?

Apparently, wrongthink needs to be countered rapidly. Presumably before too many people get all confused about the information presented to them.

Who wouldn't welcome having their expert 'rumour' 'quashed' Cos I'd hate to have it rebutted or debated.

It's finally started raining..nothing lasts forever.

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

Not particularly relevant to anything that's been posted of late:

My brother in law died of the virus at the beginning of the month. He lasted over a month but eventually his heart gave out. Before he went into hospital he was insisting that he had a summer cold, then it was flu and then finally (right up to his death) it was pneumonia. There probably was an element of pneumonia as the damage to his lungs was nothing short of catastrophic.

He believed (or so he said) that every single one of the doctors, nurses, medical staff and test results were either lying, or just wrong and he continued to profess the hoax idea even after he could no longer speak and actively obstructed the doctors in their attempts to treat him for the virus rather than simple pneumonia. Ironically, they took to avoiding all mention of covid and presented the majority of the later treatment as being pneumonia related, though they made no secret of the realities when discussing it with the family.

One of his last emails to me talked about how the antibiotics were working their magic and that he'd be out in no time. He wasn't, at least not alive.....and I'm sure he'd be annoyed to find out that his death certificate included the virus as principal cause of death.

All through this time my understandably distraught sister literally begged him to cooperate with the doctors and she too ended up just avoiding any mention of covid....so anyone who wished him well was drawn into the fiction - or hoax, if you prefer. I cannot tell you how much this experience has been not just distressing for anyone involved but also incredibly frustrating.

It has not been fun.

I'm sorry for your family's loss. The lesson everyone should see from this is even if you disagree with worldwide shutdowns because of COVID-19, we should still take the virus seriously, and take precautions.

 

[trendie]

The biggest obstacle to successful trading is the trader, not the market

The biggest obstacle to finding the truth is the journalist, not the editor

Absolutely agree with you here.

re: Leicester:
I dont know if Leicester was locked down, as I had no reason to go there, so didnt assess the risk.
The news said it was, and I dont know any people in Leicester to corroborate or disagree.

I neither BELIEVE nor disbelieve. I have no info, ideally from multiple sources. to assess.
I did not lock myself down. I had no reason to.

The biggest obstacle to gathering info, is when, like most modern politicians, you are given an answer to a question they wish they were asked, rather than the one that was actually asked.

Runcorn, Dover and Leicester are all in the UK, and quite possibly we are being misled by one government.
The reason I asked about Japan and South Korea, was because the UK ministers are unlikely to be able to manipulate that data.
This allows a critical thinker, to consider data outside the reach of one set of politicians to manipulate.
The different outcomes from different countries allows critical thinkers to rise above localised politics, and see the clearer bigger picture. If its a global psyop, it would be difficult to find an outside source.

So, is covid real, or not?
Are people dying, or not?
Are the differential results in UK and Japan down to just better and organised medical strategies?

If I am to be a critical thinker, I must also question your sources. And logic.

Is the psyop about the existence of covid, or the ineptitude of the UK govt?

 

[David Knight]

I'm sorry for your family's loss. The lesson everyone should see from this is even if you disagree with worldwide shutdowns because of COVID-19, we should still take the virus seriously, and take precautions.

People die of pneumonia every day.

If there were any other symptoms here, I missed them.

If there was a lesson here I guess i missed it.


, 'and take precautions'.

such as?

 

[David Knight]

Absolutely agree with you here.

re: Leicester:
I dont know if Leicester was locked down, as I had no reason to go there, so didnt assess the risk.
The news said it was, and I dont know any people in Leicester to corroborate or disagree.

I neither BELIEVE nor disbelieve. I have no info, ideally from multiple sources. to assess.
I did not lock myself down. I had no reason to.

The biggest obstacle to gathering info, is when, like most modern politicians, you are given an answer to a question they wish they were asked, rather than the one that was actually asked.

Runcorn, Dover and Leicester are all in the UK, and quite possibly we are being misled by one government.
The reason I asked about Japan and South Korea, was because the UK ministers are unlikely to be able to manipulate that data.
This allows a critical thinker, to consider data outside the reach of one set of politicians to manipulate.
The different outcomes from different countries allows critical thinkers to rise above localised politics, and see the clearer bigger picture. If its a global psyop, it would be difficult to find an outside source.

So, is covid real, or not?
Are people dying, or not?
Are the differential results in UK and Japan down to just better and organised medical strategies?

If I am to be a critical thinker, I must also question your sources. And logic.

Is the psyop about the existence of covid, or the ineptitude of the UK govt?

Sticking with the trading metaphor/ KISS

Doesn't covid 19 look exactly like problem/reaction/solution?

It's the solution that i have a problem with.

Personally, the flu has never given me much cause for concern. I'll get back to you on that if I make it to my late 70's or I get serious health issues

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

, 'and take precautions'.

such as?

I'd guess you've heard of these before, but here a few precautions that could save lives.

• Avoid sick people.
• Avoid contacting people if you are sick.
• Avoid being in places where people congregate.
• Avoid touching your face if your hands aren't clean.
• Wear protective items and keep a safe distance when you are near people.

Here is an example that demonstrates protective clothing and keeping a safe distance away from others.

 

[David Knight]

He refused the treatment that would have allowed him to survive and by the time he was being treated properly for the virus the damage was already too much for his heart.

Could you please tell us what the treatment is that allows people to survive?

If there is a treament that allows people to survive, why, at the same time, are we being told the only solution is a vaccine?

 

[counter_violent]

Could you please tell us what the treatment is that allows people to survive?

If there is a treament that allows people to survive, why, at the same time, are we being told the only solution is a vaccine?

I can only assume some kind of Oxygen therapy, maybe combined with some drug cocktail !

 

[new_trader]

Could you please tell us what the treatment is that allows people to survive?

If there is a treament that allows people to survive, why, at the same time, are we being told the only solution is a vaccine?

Exactly. Is this a deadly, deadly virus that we should all be terrified of like the television keeps telling us we should be, or is this a treatable disease like all the other ones that are still killing people?

 

[cantagril]

Could you please tell us what the treatment is that allows people to survive?

If there is a treament that allows people to survive, why, at the same time, are we being told the only solution is a vaccine?

I can only assume some kind of Oxygen therapy, maybe combined with some drug cocktail !

I'd guess you've heard of these before, but here a few precautions that could save lives.

• Avoid sick people.
• Avoid contacting people if you are sick.
• Avoid being in places where people congregate.
• Avoid touching your face if your hands aren't clean.
• Wear protective items and keep a safe distance when you are near people.

There is a not terribly subtle difference between giving people the chance to survive and a cure and a really sensible thing to do is reduce your chances of getting it in the first place, as Rufus has kindly pointed out, though I can see that this in itself a problem if you don't "believe" in a virus.

There is no "solution" as you put it and as with all uncurable viruses, it is the body that effectively cures itself but in order to do this needs help...i.e treatment of all the shit that the virus causes. If you choose to believe that your lungs don't need draining due to symptoms of the virus, that you don't need extra oxygen or anti-inflammatories etc etc then you're reducing the chance that your body will be able to work its own magic and allow you to get over it, just with any other virus.

In my brother in law's case, he didn't like the wording used to diagnose his condition and explain what the docs wanted to do and why, so he refused most of the stupidly obvious and completely usual initial viral treatments used to address hydration/temperature/inflammation etc and later on didn't get the amount of oxygen that would have relieved some of the strain on his heart until all mention of the virus was avoided.

Unsurprisingly to all of us and especially the doctors, his heart gave out and he died and to answer David"s earlier question about the cause of death, heart failure was at the top of the list with the virus listed as being the cause of that. I'm no doctor so it was indeed his heart stopping that killed him... but in my book he died due to the virus and most of all his own stubborn stupidity and it wouldn't have been unreasonable to put that on the certificate as principal COD.
Principal cause of death: idiot.

 

[timsk]

. . . Unsurprisingly to all of us and especially the doctors, his heart gave out and he died and to answer David"s earlier question about the cause of death, heart failure was at the top of the list with the virus listed as being the cause of that. I'm no doctor so it was indeed his heart stopping that killed him... but in my book he died due to the virus and most of all his own stubborn stupidity and it wouldn't have been unreasonable to put that on the certificate as principal COD.
Principal cause of death: idiot.

Hi cant',
Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law and thank you for sharing what happened to him, along with your views which, as always, are interesting and thought provoking.

I'm curious to know how old your bro-in-law was and whether he had been diagnosed with a heart condition prior to contracting the virus? From your account, I'm guessing that he wasn't that old (i.e. under 70) and didn't have a known comorbidity? If this is the case, then it may account for his bullish belief in his own immune system being able to see off the virus without what he perceived to be unnecessary medical intervention. Broadly speaking, this reflects my views about my own health, however, I don't think I'd take it to the lengths that your bro'-in-law did and I expect I'd cave in and let the doctors do pretty much what they wanted at the point of being admitted to hospital.
Tim.

 

[cantagril]

Hi cant',
Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law and thank you for sharing what happened to him, along with your views which, as always, are interesting and thought provoking.

I'm curious to know how old your bro-in-law was and whether he had been diagnosed with a heart condition prior to contracting the virus? From your account, I'm guessing that he wasn't that old (i.e. under 70) and didn't have a known comorbidity? If this is the case, then it may account for his bullish belief in his own immune system being able to see off the virus without what he perceived to be unnecessary medical intervention. Broadly speaking, this reflects my views about my own health, however, I don't think I'd take it to the lengths that your bro'-in-law did and I expect I'd cave in and let the doctors do pretty much what they wanted at the point of being admitted to hospital.
Tim.

He was 66 and whilst he didn't have any pre-existing nasties, he certainly didn't look after himself - imo he drank too much, didn't take enough exercise and ate everything that's bad for one. In short, he lived well but died badly.

Far better that he'd dropped dead of a well-earned heart attack than succumbed to heart failure in such ridiculous circumstances.

BTW: as euphemisms go, I very much appreciate "interesting and thought provoking" and will be using this to pour scorn on my interlocuteurs at every available opportunity.

edit: typo, again.

 

[David Knight]

Thank you Cantagril- Appreciate your patience and detailed answers.

 

[David Knight]

With regard to testing 25.45 'I'm not sick'
'Covid wards are empty' 31.09

What about the 2nd wave? NEC recently

Bill Gates: 'im making money to get rid of lives' 34.33

(sorry, thought I was writing for MM for a second)

 

[new_trader]

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Paying for an epidemic of stupidity

"We’ve handed control of our lives to a clown car packed with idiots who have wasted billions trying to defeat this virus. They will never admit it was all for nothing."

"Cases, as a moment’s reflection reveals, do not equal sickness, much less hospitalisations. Until we are entrusted with the knowledge of how many are the results of tests on people who show no symptoms, they serve only to strike terror into the innumerate."

"Their primary purpose seems to be to post-rationalise our leaders’ devastating, simple-minded lockdowns and border closures, and to panic people into sporting their masks of obedience should they be sufficiently reckless as to leave their homes."

"Here’s where our politicians find themselves, unable to admit their response to the virus — the ultimate blunt instrument of lockdown, brutally enforced — hasn’t worked, and will never work."

"If there is a clearer demonstration of the insidious overreach of the nanny state, infantilising and sinister, and the shameful acquiescence of its legions of time-serving bureaucrats, I’m not aware of it."

"But attempt to argue that the cost of our response has in any way outweighed the impact of the virus and expect to be labelled a virus denier. Then expect to be asked, accusingly, how many deaths you would find acceptable. No matter how often or how emphatically you declare “We should protect the vulnerable”, some will hear those words as “Let’s throw the old people to the wolves”.

"Let’s hope for the Kiwis’, and everyone else’s, sake a vaccine is found soon, although the World Health Organisation now warns we may never have one. It’s a tired line to repeat, but even after 40-odd years of searching we don’t have one for HIV-AIDS.

Which, if anyone needs reminding, still kills 2600 people a day."​

 

[Atilla]

He was 66 and whilst he didn't have any pre-existing nasties, he certainly didn't look after himself - imo he drank too much, didn't take enough exercise and ate everything that's bad for one. In short, he lived well but died badly.

Far better that he'd dropped dead of a well-earned heart attack than succumbed to heart failure in such ridiculous circumstances.

BTW: as euphemisms go, I very much appreciate "interesting and thought provoking" and will be using this to pour scorn on my interlocuteurs at every available opportunity.

edit: typo, again.

As before thank you for sharing your brother-in-laws pov and your perspective Cantagril and I hate to admit I like the sound of your brother but I to may have yielded to medical advice if my situation deteriorated opting to chew on some humble pie.

Your story has also reminded me of Steve Jobs and his fight with cancer. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...er-with-alternative-medicine-for-so-long.html.

He thought him self invincible but subsequently succumbed to cancer. Shame really as it would have been very interesting to see what else he may have had remaining in his brain to produce with apple.

Having said that I still don't think much of this Covid19 nonsense other than that it is simply a more aggressive form of just another virus with a unique set of hosts it favours.

Weather people should take drugs or note, make decisions over their lives is really up to them, no matter how bad we think the consequences may be. As long as they do not subject their affects on other people. So in my book, people who can't control their drink and become aggressive and violant are the sh!ts of the world.

Wrt your brother-in-law the fact that he subjected his love ones to suffering may be perceived as bad but at least he lived the life the way he wanted. I feel you are being too hard on him.

It is better to live a good short life than a miserable long one with weakness and regret. Just my tuppence.

 

[Pat494]

Well the Westminster Gods are allowing the schools to re-open. Probably get big spikes there then. But what is the alternative ?
I would suggest some really good teachers get togethor and put the syllabus online. Perhaps they have already ? It should be online anyway.