ART - not just pretty pics

[Pat494]

Commercial art is often sneered at by the purists but some have merit.

 

[Atilla]

Commercial art is often sneered at by the purists but some have merit.

Beautifully ingenious

I would like to ride that bike all over the World:!:

 

[Pat494]

Give me the Monet

 

[metrader]

The Great Wave off Kanagawa by Hokusai

 

[sminicooper]

Commercial art is often sneered at by the purists but some have merit.

Might be sneered at by purists (and that poster is a very nice one!) but commercial art can fetch a bob or two. A European winter holidays collection coming to auction shortly is estimating about £550,000 – see examples below.

1930s London Transport posters for the right subject and artist can now fetch thousands. It came to light that one such artist at the time had loads of "spare" prints of his posters, which he kept in his loft and brought down as required to use as art paper for his kids painting sessions. I bet he wouldn't have done that if he'd had a decent crystal ball.

 

[sminicooper]

I recall some lovely quilts and pottery in particular. And herein lies the rub. To execute most crafts well, a basic level of proficiency needs to be attained. You can't just chuck a lump of clay on a potters wheel and hope for the best.

Completely agree with that. One of her Ladyship's friends is a quilting expert and although quilting does nothing for me (I get on all right with the duvet) their expertise, design, beautiful use of colour and craftsmanship is amazing. This lady also makes her own Christmas cards and it's a pleasure every year to see this handcrafted beautifully designed and coloured creation arrive.

As you rightly say – there's more to pottery than chucking a load of clay onto a wheel. As a youngster my only appreciation of pottery was that BBC interlude film in black and white of the Potter doing his craft but I suspect that most people reading this will be far too young to know what I'm talking about. Clarice Cliff and Susie Cooper were masters of their art – stunning designs and colours, and very collectable today. Couple of examples below:

 

[sminicooper]

........... Of the big name contemporary British artists, the best exponent of this that I'm aware of is Grayson Perry. He's a shining example of what can be achieved when great intelligence, great artistic talent and great craftsmanship are all combined. For anyone who missed it, this series provides a fantastic insight into how he works to produce some truly fantantic work. And yes, he's a former Turner Prize winner!
Tim.

Grayson Perry : Who Are You 1of3 (Documentary)

Very interesting link that you provided and I hadn't appreciated what a clever guy he is (and what an interesting lifestyle he leads!) He's obviously extremely thoughtful and I particularly like his thesis that 'Taste is woven into our class system' - read it here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...rry-Taste-is-woven-into-our-class-system.html

It does seem that some artists do have unconventional lifestyles. One very popular and nationally-known Norfolk artist regularly brings work for sale into his local gallery – nothing unusual in that you might say: the only thing is, more often than not he turns up in very flamboyant women's outfits (he is a bloke) which in the very old-fashioned and conservative, untainted by London, locality often raises a few psychological eyebrows! But c'mon, he's an artist

 

[Pat494]

Hey if U R arty enough

 

[sminicooper]

Hey if U R arty enough

30 Grand prize money Pat – do you fancy having a go then?

 

[Pat494]

30 Grand prize money Pat – do you fancy having a go then?

Ha ha I have to just stand back and admire the work of others I regret to say, but you never know the bug might get to me................

Do you daub a bit ?

 

[sminicooper]

Ha ha I have to just stand back and admire the work of others I regret to say, but you never know the bug might get to me................

Do you daub a bit ?

Bit of Dulux, or Homebase if the market has been playing up but otherwise no, – I wouldn't know where to start with the clever stuff.

 

[Pat494]

The Empire

 

[Atilla]

Might be sneered at by purists (and that poster is a very nice one!) but commercial art can fetch a bob or two. A European winter holidays collection coming to auction shortly is estimating about £550,000 – see examples below.

1930s London Transport posters for the right subject and artist can now fetch thousands. It came to light that one such artist at the time had loads of "spare" prints of his posters, which he kept in his loft and brought down as required to use as art paper for his kids painting sessions. I bet he wouldn't have done that if he'd had a decent crystal ball.

View attachment 232618 View attachment 232620

Question here for your art experts, if one buys the painting for the enjoyment primarily and the price of the art going being secondary then would anyone have any objections to simply copying these cartoon pics and reprinting?

They were posters after all and mass produced with the idea of replication right?


So what's money got to do with it at all?

Knowing it's price I'm guessing adds to the enjoyment of the art for some... :whistling

 

[timsk]

Question here for your art experts, if one buys the painting for the enjoyment primarily and the price of the art going being secondary then would anyone have any objections to simply copying these cartoon pics and reprinting?

Hi Atilla,
People can - and do - exactly that. But, as with anything, would you rather have the original or a modern reproduction? Same goes for most things. Take the two books below. . .
Importance of Being Earnest (expensive original)
Importance of Being Earnest (cheap copy)
Would you rather have the top one which is a 1st edition that'll set you back a cool $3,000, or make do with the second one which is a Penguin paperback costing a mere £2.76p? The words are the same in each!
Tim.

 

[Mr. Charts]

The original artist should normally receive some sort of royalty, in my opinion, if feasible, still alive etc. I don't like this rip off society.

How refreshing to read such an intelligent thread - in parts !

 

[counter_violent]

The original artist should normally receive some sort of royalty, in my opinion, if feasible, still alive etc. I don't like this rip off society.

How refreshing to read such an intelligent thread - in parts !

Which parts?

 

[Atilla]

Hi Atilla,
People can - and do - exactly that. But, as with anything, would you rather have the original or a modern reproduction? Same goes for most things. Take the two books below. . .
Importance of Being Earnest (expensive original)
Importance of Being Earnest (cheap copy)
Would you rather have the top one which is a 1st edition that'll set you back a cool $3,000, or make do with the second one which is a Penguin paperback costing a mere £2.76p? The words are the same in each!
Tim.

I'd like good value Penguin Paperback version as otherwise it is not so much a book as simply another commodity to invest in. I'd worry about keeping it safe and secure and not damaging it.

I'm more interested in the words when buying books than how old they are.


I appreciate the distinction between original and copy and supply and demand and thus price.


With respect to the poster art, it is a replicated poster so I'm afraid I don't get placing such a value on an original which is no longer mass produced. By it's nature it's meant to be copy printed.

Over cooking it I reckon. It no longer is a book or a poster but more of a commodity investment with a view to watching it's value appreciate. It's just another game.


Crazy world we live in. :|

 

[sminicooper]

Question here for your art experts, if one buys the painting for the enjoyment primarily and the price of the art going being secondary then would anyone have any objections to simply copying these cartoon pics and reprinting?

They were posters after all and mass produced with the idea of replication right?


So what's money got to do with it at all?

Knowing it's price I'm guessing adds to the enjoyment of the art for some... :whistling

If it's the price that gives the kick then one should be in our kind of trading IMHO. I see no beauty in shares - just a name that either makes or loses money. I know of people who've bought expensive originals from a particular gallery (talking £10-25k here - so not pocket money) by very run of the mill artist and were pleased with the picture at the time. On returning to the gallery with a view to re-sale or trade-in, the artist/proprietor just doesn't want to know. But I suppose if you're part of the London liberal elite it might be important to demonstrate your wealth and art appreciation? As far as I can tell, the art world has the same sort of shysters who inhabit the trading world, and we all know how careful you have to be in trading.

Mass production/replication? As far as I know – and I'm no expert in this – I think it's all tied up with copyright, which in itself is an extremely complicated piece of law despite covering a simple principle. There is a very strong market in copies of posters – just Google it and there are loads of sellers on the Internet – and prices can be fairly reasonable - it just depends on what you want and if you know what you're looking for in terms of value. But there are prints and prints e.g. LS Lowry did a signed edition of 850 prints of Burford church (Cotswolds) in the late nineteen forties. A lovely picture and probably considered rather untypical of his work by those who have just a passing acquaintance. When I last visited the scene a little while ago it looked a bit different to how Lowry painted it:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8...jhe7qemt0BXQnfNm-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1



There's one on sale here http://www.peterharrington.co.uk/gallery/browse/framed/burford-church-4/ for £4000 but you can also buy this one (modern unsigned edition of 1500) for £75 http://www.thelowry.com/gifts-and-s...mited-editions/burford-church-limited-edition. As an investment, go for the signed (he doesn't do signings any more!); if you just want to look at the picture the cheap one would be ok. If you're an art snob and/or have an eye to investment go for the signed one. If you're patient you can sometimes pick up good stuff at sensible prices - but not at London dealers or auction houses (they have expensive overheads and experts' salaries to fund). If you're loaded, just ring round the London dealers. Horses for courses. You can (and I say this very genuinely) make your house nice with Ikea pictures/posters but don't consider them as investments - but there again, if you're looking for art at Ikea it's not likely that you would be doing it for investment.

On the subject of Ikea - I'm full of admiration: brilliant design, sensible prices and capable of transformations in the most mundane of circumstances. A very clever company.

Note: as I think I've said before, one of my nicest ways of enjoying art is to use the Windows snipping tool to make a copy, and place the picture file in the following folder: C:\Windows\Web\Wallpaper\MyWallpaper. Then go to Windows\settings\background and set the viewing interval for your collection of favourite pictures. I change mine every 5 minutes and with 2 screens showing different pictures (win 10) it really does remind you of the things you've forgotten.

 

[Atilla]

If it's the price that gives the kick then one should be in our kind of trading IMHO. I see no beauty in shares - just a name that either makes or loses money. I know of people who've bought expensive originals from a particular gallery (talking £10-25k here - so not pocket money) by very run of the mill artist and were pleased with the picture at the time. On returning to the gallery with a view to re-sale or trade-in, the artist/proprietor just doesn't want to know. But I suppose if you're part of the London liberal elite it might be important to demonstrate your wealth and art appreciation? As far as I can tell, the art world has the same sort of shysters who inhabit the trading world, and we all know how careful you have to be in trading.

Mass production/replication? As far as I know – and I'm no expert in this – I think it's all tied up with copyright, which in itself is an extremely complicated piece of law despite covering a simple principle. There is a very strong market in copies of posters – just Google it and there are loads of sellers on the Internet – and prices can be fairly reasonable - it just depends on what you want and if you know what you're looking for in terms of value. But there are prints and prints e.g. LS Lowry did a signed edition of 850 prints of Burford church (Cotswolds) in the late nineteen forties. A lovely picture and probably considered rather untypical of his work by those who have just a passing acquaintance. When I last visited the scene a little while ago it looked a bit different to how Lowry painted it:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8...jhe7qemt0BXQnfNm-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

View attachment 232648

There's one on sale here http://www.peterharrington.co.uk/gallery/browse/framed/burford-church-4/ for £4000 but you can also buy this one (modern unsigned edition of 1500) for £75 http://www.thelowry.com/gifts-and-s...mited-editions/burford-church-limited-edition. As an investment, go for the signed (he doesn't do signings any more!); if you just want to look at the picture the cheap one would be ok. If you're an art snob and/or have an eye to investment go for the signed one. If you're patient you can sometimes pick up good stuff at sensible prices - but not at London dealers or auction houses (they have expensive overheads and experts' salaries to fund). If you're loaded, just ring round the London dealers. Horses for courses. You can (and I say this very genuinely) make your house nice with Ikea pictures/posters but don't consider them as investments - but there again, if you're looking for art at Ikea it's not likely that you would be doing it for investment.

On the subject of Ikea - I'm full of admiration: brilliant design, sensible prices and capable of transformations in the most mundane of circumstances. A very clever company.

Note: as I think I've said before, one of my nicest ways of enjoying art is to use the Windows snipping tool to make a copy, and place the picture file in the following folder: C:\Windows\Web\Wallpaper\MyWallpaper. Then go to Windows\settings\background and set the viewing interval for your collection of favourite pictures. I change mine every 5 minutes and with 2 screens showing different pictures (win 10) it really does remind you of the things you've forgotten.

I can tell from the passion in your words that you trully enjoy art.

Festive greetings and happy cheers to you with a bottle of Heineken. :drunk:

 

[Pat494]

Just had a look at Ikea. Better than I expected. Here is a pretty poster of Audrey Hepburn at £25. I prefer the one below for free.