Anyone can learn?

[PKFFW]

Now apparently according to some, trading can be easily learned, you don't have to be born with special talents, you can be from any gene pool and still make it in this business.

Minimum wage workers poo poo all over the 'anyone can trade' theory with one foul and humungous dump.:cheesy:

Probably shouldn't even bother replying but here goes anyway.........

They probably fail for the very misconception you have stated there.

I don't know of any on this board who have claimed trading is easily learned. That is your misconception, intentional or otherwise, of what has been posted.

Those like the ones you mention in your post usually fail because they come into this business believing it will be easy. When it is not easy, they quit. Most all the other reasons given for failure at trading really boil down to that simple fact in my humble opinion.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[nine]

OK. Where angels fear to tread.

Agree: trading can not be easily learned (except for some rare parties who's genetics and prior life experience set them up perfectly to be traders (I don't know any of these people)).

Disagree: the ones you mention in your post usually fail because they come into this business believing it will be easy.

People fail in this business for a range of reasons. Believing it will be easy probably makes some of the later reasons more likely but "usually" is way to broad. Trading failure is a complex things and there are a lot of contributing factors. I'd suggest some but I don't suggest that they are either all of them or which one or combination makes up "usually." Reasons for failure:

- thought it was easy and didn't do the work
- neuroticism (over 50% genetic) making courageous trading too difficult
- didn't have enough money
- was not disciplined enough (I'm guessing that this is the big one but I also think a lot of things contribute to it or exacerbate it)
- wasn't smart enough to figure it out (over 50% genetic)
- was too smart so have the wrong behaviours built in from childhood (over 50% genetic)

And so on and so forth. My current trade, imho, is going to fail because I entered at the wrong place ...

 

[grantx]

Nine,

You seem pretty convinced that genes provide the pre-condition of an ability to trade. Has this gene been identified?

Grant.

 

[nine]

Don't display your ignorance grant

But just in case it wasn't a joke: there is no "trading gene" any more than there is a good (rhymes with luck, you'll get spam suggesting you can be a better ....) gene.

But if you believe that for different types of trading (discret day, discret longer term, system (say)) there is an impact from characteristics like risk adverseness, neuroticism, intelligence, optimism, then you will find solid research showing the genetic vs environmental components of these factors.

I never used the term pre-condition; you introduced it; and I would say that it is a foolish term except in extremes. If some one was so dumb that despite schooling they couldn't add 2+2 and come up with 4, or perhaps tie their shoe laces, then it might be a precondition. At least as far as I've bothered thinking about it, other cases the genetic elements of ones capabilities will simply be factors in success.

 

[mp6140]

Nine,

You seem pretty convinced that genes provide the pre-condition of an ability to trade. Has this gene been identified?

Grant.

======================================================================

Dr. Nyles Van Hyerstrein, Professor Emeritus at Zulander University, late last year, pointed that gene out to a group on sabbatical from the SEC who were interested in breeding small trading clones.

It was reported in the Wall Street Journal of Medicene in November of 2007

enjoy

mp

 

[trader_dante]

Some people are simply risk averse and/or not entrepreneurial or interested in really striving to increase their financial status. I know several people who could be very wealthy by now. People that had the right skills at the right time to make it big but that lacked the drive.

 

[mp6140]

Some people are simply risk averse and/or not entrepreneurial or interested in really striving to increase their financial status. I know several people who could be very wealthy by now. People that had the right skills at the right time to make it big but that lacked the drive.

=======================================================================

have spent the majority of my "working" life self-employed, which covers your "entrepenurual" category and because its so easy to do, so nice not to have a "boss" or just be another cog in the wheel and so nice to utilize the "perks" and tax adjustments available, that I am constantly surprised by those who simply CANNOT work for themselves, so tuned into the security of a "job" are they that the very thought gets them to "vibrating".

While there are of course a multitude of real reasons for choosing to work for another, one of the stronger reasons against it is simply "schooling" --- throughout our "education" as we grow, what we see is the 9 - 5 world before us, time for school to start, time for it to end, your parents have designated times to go to work and come back --- "rush" hour is simply because the majority of the world has to be in their cubicles at a specific time. Other words, we are TRAINED to unconciously believe the ONLY way to go thru life is 9 - 5 !

Now that said, these people FEAR being fired for all the obvious reasons, and I (and prob most, if not all "entrepenourial heads") never give it a thought --- failure only means your "approach" was incorrect and its time to re-evaluate and press on !

i guess thats one reason why i love trading --- over many many years I have learned to depend on myself, found that I have enough skills to engage in a number of career choices over my lifetime and to be as successful as needed in all of them.

Im not a "superstar" and I have no need to be one, cause even doing decently in this business means making far more for a person than most wage slaves can ever imagine !

Gotta go -- got a modeling assignment in 2 hours

mp

 

[grantx]

Mr Nine,

I quote from the Moderators Handbook, ch 87, paragraph 45, sub-section 6:

‘Moderators whose forefathers were transported to the colonies as common criminals shall restrain from assuming a snotty tone when addressing the more exalted members.’

I used “pre-condition” as being a quality which could be ascribed to a particular gene, as for example a certain gene is likely to pre-dispose susceptibility to certain diseases. It was to differentiate from what some may believe to be a “trading” gene.

With reference to your final paragraph, It is with great regret that we may agree here.

Damn your impudence, Sir. What, what.

MP,

I read that article. Obviously you didn’t read my “reply” in the same publication where I demolished Dr. Van Hyerstrein’s theory as being nothing more than a series of holes held together by rotting string. What are you modelling by the way? Is that you in your picture?

Grant.

 

[mp6140]

MP,

I read that article. Obviously you didn’t read my “reply” in the same publication where I demolished Dr. Van Hyerstrein’s theory as being nothing more than a series of holes held together by rotting string. What are you modelling by the way? Is that you in your picture?

Grant.

while his theories are in no way to be construed as "new", having spent years testing on the backs of PHD students, in no way should one consider his DNA chain held together by "rotting" string and while your response held some interest to those wandering the halls of academic kindergarten, they appeared to have huge round empty spaces of their own -- large enough to drive an interstate bus through !

now, allow a working girl to get on with it, cause its hard being brilliant, beautiful and bouyant with you serious chaps about !

mp

 

[fifty2aces]

Short answer - anyone can trade, but not everyone can make money. If everyone who traded made money, where would all the profits come from?

 

[grantx]

52,

Depsite what the T2W proponents of eugenics say, I think it more optimistic. A high failure rate may also be due to inadequate preparation, eg familiarity with systems/technicals, understanding the market(s), a good trading strategy with money management. Someone may become extremely successful after only 6 months but others may take a year, or two to reach the same level.

The question isn't can you become a trader in 6 months, but how long does it take for you to become a trader. Answer: as long as it takes.

Grant.

 

[black bear]

Sprat ..Fish .....Shark

Short answer - anyone can trade, but not everyone can make money. If everyone who traded made money, where would all the profits come from?

It comes from newbies most donate all their 1st bank

It comes from Improvers who insist on making one off large donations because they keep getting to new levels and think they no it all again

It comes from seasoned traders who just donate sorry lend the market the % they already no they will donate sorry lend until it comes back to them in multiples of

Just like the snooker club

Sprat Fish Shark

 

[0007]

Short answer - anyone can trade, but not everyone can make money. If everyone who traded made money, where would all the profits come from?

Many of the people don't profit any of the time
Some of the people profit some of the time
A few of the people profit all of the time

- with apologies to A. Lincoln

 

[new_trader]

So why aren't people learning and doing it?

Hyperthetical bit....

Minimum wage couple, bought a house 10 years ago, some equity in it. Both in jobs that suck.

You can see where i'm going with this, right?



Now apparently according to some, trading can be easily learned, you don't have to be born with special talents, you can be from any gene pool and still make it in this business.

Minimum wage workers poo poo all over the 'anyone can trade' theory with one foul and humungous dump.:cheesy:

IMHO: Because this is the misconception, that successful trading can be learned. I work in a technical environment with a number of engineers. We have all been trained in the same environment, we all have similar qualifications, but we are not all equal in our problem solving ability. Some are borderline useless.

 

[damianoakley]

Hi All,

Interesting thread.

I would say that an individual's ability to learn the trading business is most dependent upon how much that individual WANTS trading to become their profession.

A person who truly desires a certain goal can figure out how to overcome many obstacles that would stop the average person with less desire. If an individual develops a true passion for the financial markets and is willing to channel that passion, then I think that background and class are largely irrelavant. There are many examples of successful wealthy businessmen who came from working class backgrounds - these people would have faced many obstacles during their journey to success, probably the biggest being rasing funds and getting people to take them seriously in their early days.

Looking back at the original starting post on this thread, I would say that although success isn't always dependent on social class, success means different things to different people. There are people for whom success means simply having a steady job and their own 3-bed semi.....this type of person would have no inclination to learn about the complexities of trading because they already feel fulfilled with the life they have. There are many people who reach a level of comfort in their lives and are happy to not push themselves beyond this point, whether they be of the working, middle or upper class.

I think that the need to venture into trading is sparked by the same need that drives people to start their own business.....ambition - something anyone can have regardless of class.


Thanks

Damian

 

[grantx]

Damian,

"fulfilled with the life they have."

Unfortunately, there is an implicit assumption in some quarters on T2W (and elsewhere, especially Elite Trader) that if one isn't trading and also making a wad, this is tantamount to failure.

Grant.

 

[damianoakley]

Damian,

"fulfilled with the life they have."

Unfortunately, there is an implicit assumption in some quarters on T2W (and elsewhere, especially Elite Trader) that if one isn't trading and also making a wad, this is tantamount to failure.

Grant.

Hi Grant,

I agree......sadly, we are all judged by the house we live in, the car we drive, and the money we earn.


Damian

 

[mp6140]

MP -- ah, another new thread !

Unfortunately, there is an implicit assumption in some quarters on T2W (and elsewhere, especially Elite Trader) that if one isn't trading and also making a wad, this is tantamount to failure.

Grant

ah indeed Grant --- HOW MUCH is enough ?

$100K, 250K, 500K, 2.5 M, ---- WHERE DOES IT END (i know, greed determines the end point)

obviously there are people who MUST have a few million at the very least (per year) and those who must have more, and even people who can live with (gasp !) LESS !

we should all start a new thread --- "HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH ?

But we must have 5 or 10 year reunions, because each persons needs will change over time --- it could become a wonderous ongoing thread !

mp

 

[new_trader]

Damian,

"fulfilled with the life they have."

Unfortunately, there is an implicit assumption in some quarters on T2W (and elsewhere, especially Elite Trader) that if one isn't trading and also making a wad, this is tantamount to failure.

Grant.

1) What would your opinion on this be if the title of the thread was, "Can anyone teach trading?"

2) Who would you want as a teacher? (In terms of wad making) Someone who IS making a wad or someone barely scraping by?

 

[grantx]

NT,

1) No. Those who can, some are better than others. I think the best one can hope for is to be taught what not to do.

2) The successful, obviously. But this is too black and white. Someone may be brilliant on all aspects of the markets, including how to trade, but is psychologically unsuitable (whatever that means)or perhaps trading has no interest.

Grant.