SuddenDeath
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this thread is about poor trading educators, what about the good guys, do we have a thread for the decent educators
Alan Rich new scanner
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There are none so it would be a boring thread.
Lord Flasheart
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do you know any? Ive been trading 16 years and have not come across any that I believe can trade or offer value for money. Everything is available on the internet and the hardest bit of controlling your emotion during a trade cannot really be ever taught. If anyone claims they know of a good guy or training Ive always politely asked them to back it up and so far they never have. Trust me when I say the bigger the name the less likely they are to be any good
Doing just a little research on AR reveals that his teaching skills leave a lot to be desired- most people have been disappointed at the "education" received.
Seems that the only good thing Alan provides on his training day is plenty of tea and coffee. Maybe if you take your own refreshments you may get a discount-- say 99.99999% of his fee?
Seems that the only good thing Alan provides on his training day is plenty of tea and coffee. Maybe if you take your own refreshments you may get a discount-- say 99.99999% of his fee?
the hare
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Although I'm naturally quite cynical, and quite dismissive of trading educators, I always used to set aside a few quid each year for "trading education". I haven't spent anything for a while, but there's a couple of courses that I will probably attend at some point if I find the time.
If I go back a few years both Alan Rich, and Mr Charts where kind of shortlisted as potential educators that I might check out. I guess what I'm saying is they had me fooled too at one point.
As my own trading became more consistent, I started to notice that the reality of what I observed in my own results was diverging massively from the types of claims of these educators. I had good few years with returns in excess of 100%, and even a couple of years where I doubled that, but most of the time my equity curve would be treading water not really going anywhere. Even in the very best years I was only making new equity highs around 18% of the time
Mr Charts and Alan Rich never had a loser, but I had loads of losers, and yet, I still had fantastic returns. You then start to do a bit of maths, and ask questions such as if I could eliminate most of my losses what would my returns be, and the answer of course is you'd be astronomically wealthy. So basically the credibility of their claims where bordering on the ridiculous, when compared to reality.
Then I started to question the sort of lifestyle these people led, in comparison to myself, and that didn't really add up either.
I also started to notice that Alan Rich (and a few other vendors) where being very aggressively marketed, the whole t2w vendor circle jerk are mostly involved, and that sent up a red flag. I also know there's at least 2 vendors being promoted by that same sales team that have never taken a trade in their lives, and their C.Vs are almost indistinguishable from any of the other vendors being promoted by that group. I could say a lot more about this as I have inside info and know one of the vendors concerned extremely well, and consider him a personal friend, but he's not a trader (despite standing on a stage and telling people he is
) The point is there was a very good chance that in the past I might have paid for education form Alan Rich, rather than some other charlatan, it was the luck of the draw that someone else ripped me off first
I suppose that sadly one of the primary reasons that I might have selected Alan as a trading educator when I knew no better would probably have been due to his reputation at t2w, and that's one of the reasons why I'm quite critical of forums such as t2w and the role they play in promoting this stuff.
scanner costs £2495
Reminds me of Stephen Sutherland, the 'Liquid Millionaire', previously known as 'Filthy Rich Investments'.
Lives in a semi in Oldham.
You seem to go about this business the same as me. I also put aside some money for "education" each year. Altho given my last 2 experiences, this money will now be spent more wisely.
I always figured that if this guy is trading and seems legit, why not go and see what all the fuss is about.... and I've done that on a few occasions. Sadly, everyone has been a disappointing experience.
Personally, I can only manage at best, 10 months out of 12 positive. I can never better this stat of mine. I've had 2 losing months a year since 2007. Yet these guys NEVER (MrCharts excl) have a losing trade...... yet, they still have the time and inclination to keep up appearances on t2w and whatever...
Like you say, the sums dont add up.
Nicely put words Mr Hare.
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DionysusToast
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So let me get this right....
This scanner is 2 and a half grand and not only is there no demo/free trial - you have to pay 500 quid to find out what it does?
Who the fnck buys into something like that?
The Leopard
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There was one, but they sold it to the Internet Museum of Astonishing Curiosities.
It's now one of the star exhibits. If you want to go and see it, it's titled "The World's Shortest Thread".
timsk
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D70 & the hare,
I'm very surprised at your respective statements that both Alan Rich and Mr. Charts claim never to have losing trades. That's certainly news to me, especially in the case of Mr. Charts, as he makes a point on his thread of saying that he has plenty of losers.
Tim.
I'm very surprised at your respective statements that both Alan Rich and Mr. Charts claim never to have losing trades. That's certainly news to me, especially in the case of Mr. Charts, as he makes a point on his thread of saying that he has plenty of losers.
Tim.
the hare
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Correct, Mr Charts does show the occasional losing trade.
He does not have anything like the number of losing trades that I do (and he uses a much tighter stop), nor he does not have anywhere near the number of losing days that I do. That's obviously because he is a far better trader
I know what I make, and I know what my equity curve looks like, and I know what a lot of other traders equity curves look like too
Timsk
You seem to take it personally when someone criticises these two "characters"-(particularly Mr Charts) any reason why?
I would agree that there have been times when they have "admitted" to having had losers but it is pretty rare.
Based onthe results they have posted on these boards over the last ten years and given their success rate wouldn't even you agree that these results are slightly suspect?
You seem to take it personally when someone criticises these two "characters"-(particularly Mr Charts) any reason why?
I would agree that there have been times when they have "admitted" to having had losers but it is pretty rare.
Based onthe results they have posted on these boards over the last ten years and given their success rate wouldn't even you agree that these results are slightly suspect?
The Leopard
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Superb post.
I've never paid for a course, although I did shell out for a couple of systems right at the start. At under a couple of hundred quid they weren't expensive (except relative to their value of course), and I won't tell you the vendor in question, because you will literally sh1t your trousers laughing if I do.
In terms of strike rate, we've discussed this before and think alike. Although I would never buy a course, I do very occasionally buy or acquire books. I got one fairly recently, and the author's take was remarkably refreshing. He was saying that a 70% strike rate is incredibly difficult (using reasonable parameters, and not vendor tricks), and that "even" 60% is likely to be beyond most people. Even is in inverted commas because of course it represents a superb strike rate that can easily make on very rich indeed.
He also pointed out that this really doesn't matter, for reasons that you fully understand (but few people at the zoo do, unfortunately). My best months tend to be those with a 50% strike rate or lower - again for reasons that you'll understand.
For example, there's ample liquidity in ES to allow for an income of many millions of dollars a year from an average net win of 1 pt per day - say 200 to 250 points for a whole year. Some of these vendors claim dozens per month.
Getting back to the vendors, if they were anything like as good as they claimed they would be wealthy beyond imagining, with their near flawless hit-rates and monthly mountains of pips and points. The victims of Crappa Smurf I seem to remember (the excellent TEC thread) said he claimed no losing days for over 6 months and an average of high hundreds of pips a month. Trading the major pairs that should by any reasonable assessment mean a return of millions of dollars a month. And yet people thought he would sell them these signals for a hundred quid or whatever it was.
In the end, people are idiots. I treat system vendors and educators the way I treat politicians - tar them all with the same brush, because they all deserve it. Have no respect for any of them, they are all the same. Judge these books by their covers - judge them hastily, and harshly, and your judgement will be correct.
How does one know this assessment is correct? Simply this - it is inherent in what they are ( I can explain why this is the case with politicians if anyone is interested; in the case of vendors, well if it's not obvious to you, you're probably beyond help).
I've never paid for a course, although I did shell out for a couple of systems right at the start. At under a couple of hundred quid they weren't expensive (except relative to their value of course), and I won't tell you the vendor in question, because you will literally sh1t your trousers laughing if I do.
In terms of strike rate, we've discussed this before and think alike. Although I would never buy a course, I do very occasionally buy or acquire books. I got one fairly recently, and the author's take was remarkably refreshing. He was saying that a 70% strike rate is incredibly difficult (using reasonable parameters, and not vendor tricks), and that "even" 60% is likely to be beyond most people. Even is in inverted commas because of course it represents a superb strike rate that can easily make on very rich indeed.
He also pointed out that this really doesn't matter, for reasons that you fully understand (but few people at the zoo do, unfortunately). My best months tend to be those with a 50% strike rate or lower - again for reasons that you'll understand.
For example, there's ample liquidity in ES to allow for an income of many millions of dollars a year from an average net win of 1 pt per day - say 200 to 250 points for a whole year. Some of these vendors claim dozens per month.
Getting back to the vendors, if they were anything like as good as they claimed they would be wealthy beyond imagining, with their near flawless hit-rates and monthly mountains of pips and points. The victims of Crappa Smurf I seem to remember (the excellent TEC thread) said he claimed no losing days for over 6 months and an average of high hundreds of pips a month. Trading the major pairs that should by any reasonable assessment mean a return of millions of dollars a month. And yet people thought he would sell them these signals for a hundred quid or whatever it was.
In the end, people are idiots. I treat system vendors and educators the way I treat politicians - tar them all with the same brush, because they all deserve it. Have no respect for any of them, they are all the same. Judge these books by their covers - judge them hastily, and harshly, and your judgement will be correct.
How does one know this assessment is correct? Simply this - it is inherent in what they are ( I can explain why this is the case with politicians if anyone is interested; in the case of vendors, well if it's not obvious to you, you're probably beyond help).
Although I'm naturally quite cynical, and quite dismissive of trading educators, I always used to set aside a few quid each year for "trading education". I haven't spent anything for a while, but there's a couple of courses that I will probably attend at some point if I find the time.
If I go back a few years both Alan Rich, and Mr Charts where kind of shortlisted as potential educators that I might check out. I guess what I'm saying is they had me fooled too at one point.
As my own trading became more consistent, I started to notice that the reality of what I observed in my own results was diverging massively from the types of claims of these educators. I had good few years with returns in excess of 100%, and even a couple of years where I doubled that, but most of the time my equity curve would be treading water not really going anywhere. Even in the very best years I was only making new equity highs around 18% of the time
Mr Charts and Alan Rich never had a loser, but I had loads of losers, and yet, I still had fantastic returns. You then start to do a bit of maths, and ask questions such as if I could eliminate most of my losses what would my returns be, and the answer of course is you'd be astronomically wealthy. So basically the credibility of their claims where bordering on the ridiculous, when compared to reality.
Then I started to question the sort of lifestyle these people led, in comparison to myself, and that didn't really add up either.
I also started to notice that Alan Rich (and a few other vendors) where being very aggressively marketed, the whole t2w vendor circle jerk are mostly involved, and that sent up a red flag. I also know there's at least 2 vendors being promoted by that same sales team that have never taken a trade in their lives, and their C.Vs are almost indistinguishable from any of the other vendors being promoted by that group. I could say a lot more about this as I have inside info and know one of the vendors concerned extremely well, and consider him a personal friend, but he's not a trader (despite standing on a stage and telling people he is
The point is there was a very good chance that in the past I might have paid for education form Alan Rich, rather than some other charlatan, it was the luck of the draw that someone else ripped me off first
I suppose that sadly one of the primary reasons that I might have selected Alan as a trading educator when I knew no better would probably have been due to his reputation at t2w, and that's one of the reasons why I'm quite critical of forums such as t2w and the role they play in promoting this stuff.
Tim:
"in the case of Mr. Charts, as he makes a point on his thread of saying that he has plenty of losers."
How do you define "plenty" Tim--I wonder what the actual ratio is -winners to losers.
Based on correct money management and if his results were true- this guy would be a multi millionaire.
If his systems were that good why bother charging a few hundred quid onthis board? He would be better off selling it for a million or two to an investment bank- they could get get their investment back within a day given the resources available.
"in the case of Mr. Charts, as he makes a point on his thread of saying that he has plenty of losers."
How do you define "plenty" Tim--I wonder what the actual ratio is -winners to losers.
Based on correct money management and if his results were true- this guy would be a multi millionaire.
If his systems were that good why bother charging a few hundred quid onthis board? He would be better off selling it for a million or two to an investment bank- they could get get their investment back within a day given the resources available.
DionysusToast
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and I won't tell you the vendor in question, because you will literally sh1t your trousers laughing if I do.
Well, of course, that sort of piques the interest doesn't it?
Out with it? It's good for the soul...
Lord Flasheart
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nothing would suprise me as to who it is
