A reality call...

[DionysusToast]

Tony

you raise some valid points. Problem is I have yet to come across any mentor who is worth learning from. Most of this game is emotional and takes hours of screen time which is why most of us are skeptical about mentoring and as you say, a good trader will probably not bother to mentor. everything you can learn is easily available on the net,the rest is up to you.

Where on the net?

All I see is a coupla million pages of BS.

Care to show the viewers exactly what pages on the web this stuff is at?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Where on the net?

All I see is a coupla million pages of BS.

Care to show the viewers exactly what pages on the web this stuff is at?

As ive stated many times, the hard part is in the head,the rest is what we all know,You can make a simple method work if you are in the right place. Where do you suggest we look then.you think it cant be found on the net and you hate mentors,so Id love to hear your solution

 

[piggybridges]

I wonder if Counter_Violent had a mentor? He seems to kill the market daily.

 

[Pat494]

One way is to learn programming and backtest yourself - allow some years for this approach.
Another if you have ideas but no programming skills, is to find someone else to do the programming i.e. on MT4 or Ninjatrader forums.

 

[counter_violent]

I wonder if Counter_Violent had a mentor? He seems to kill the market daily.

No and No I don't kill the market daily. I'm as guilty as the next bloke when it comes to trading and the feeling of I need to be doing something as I sit staring at screens. However, these days I don't tend to get into completely unmanagable situations.
Also, when I do kill the market... I do it big style (relatively). aka George Soros.."it takes courage to be a pig" The Dangerous Secret of Big Position Sizes

Livermore had it right in that respect when he talked about sitting and waiting and doing nothing.

 

[new_trader]

The inference is that the only way you can learn how to trade is to find someone who actually knows what they are doing and get them to show you, personally. These mysterious and aloof gurus never post in a forum or website or anywhere on the internet and nothing they know has ever been written in a book by anyone else ever in the 100+ years of modern trading history.

I’m sure if you were to meet a pin bar guru the claims would be that they are a fraud.

A mechanical system guru is a liar

So, you would have to meet the right kind of guru and then get them to prove to you that they actually know how to trade and teach...all of this as a personal friend of course...the benefit to them being the warm fuzzy feeling they get from being altruistic...

 

[Pat494]

I have never tried his course but Mr. charts does post regualarly, if anyone wants a name.

 

[DionysusToast]

everything you can learn is easily available on the net,the rest is up to you.

Where on the net?

All I see is a coupla million pages of BS.

Care to show the viewers exactly what pages on the web this stuff is at?

As ive stated many times, the hard part is in the head,the rest is what we all know,You can make a simple method work if you are in the right place. Where do you suggest we look then.you think it cant be found on the net and you hate mentors,so Id love to hear your solution

OK - so it's all on the net, everyone knows it.

It's just that you can't actually say where it is yourself.

This sums up the value of most contributors to trading forums. You get the platitudes, you just don't get any fact.

Last time I heard "any method will work" was the infamous Black Swan video. He didn't choose these initials by accident.

LF - you've very nicely proved my point. Thank you.

I agree you need a mentor. But to say everything is on the net and then say the onus is on me to prove it isn't is disingenuous. You can't prove something doesn't exist. I can't prove the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist. On the other hand, when you make a claim that something DOES exist, you should be able to back that up.

But this is teh interweb where pilots, doctors, tree surgeons, carpenters all learn their trade through forum posts...

 

[VielGeld]

I would be hard pressed to think that you could become a trader without many years of wasted time without a mentor of sorts. It's not necessarily that he'll give you some Grail off the bat, but rather that he'll give you a method of working with the market and get you to see what's already there. That, to me, is the sign of a good mentor.

But yes, the answer is out there on forums -- because I know I've posted it a couple times already.

 

[new_trader]

It has zero to do with whether the stuff you need to know is on the net or in a book or whether you need a good mentor. It is the misguided belief that everyone who enters this profession has the aptitude necessary to succeed. This is one of the very few professions I know of which doesn’t require any qualification or an entrance test or other test of competency to enter but unlike being a doctor or pilot, nobody dies if you are incompetent. How anyone can attempt to draw a meaningful analogy between reading a book and becoming a doctor and reading a book and becoming a trader is beyond me. Besides, go back in history and you will see some horrifying examples of what in those days was considered good medical practice. You could easily argue that many successful surgical procedures today are the result of years of trial and error but still, even today, doctors don’t have a cure for cancer and many other illnesses so what do they do? They can’t simply consult a mentor can they? They have to figure out a solution to a problem that nobody has ever solved before.

The market is the ultimate adjudicator of your understanding and ability and the feedback is instant. The idea that you can only progress from personal mentoring is absurd. What this profession requires is intelligence, determination, perseverance not some trumped-up mentor.

The reality call most people need is that they are not suited to this profession.

 

[VielGeld]

The reality call most people need is that they are not suited to this profession.

I don't know... I believe trading is a very diverse environment where you can tailor a self-styled approach for profit-making. To be sure, the stress is not something everyone wants to go through, but there are plenty of ways to make trading low-stress. That won't rake in the big bucks, but it'll provide the stability the trader is looking for.

Of course you have those who will never learn for whatever reason, but I'd like to think there's smething for everyone in trading.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

OK - so it's all on the net, everyone knows it.

It's just that you can't actually say where it is yourself.

This sums up the value of most contributors to trading forums. You get the platitudes, you just don't get any fact.

Last time I heard "any method will work" was the infamous Black Swan video. He didn't choose these initials by accident.

LF - you've very nicely proved my point. Thank you.

I agree you need a mentor. But to say everything is on the net and then say the onus is on me to prove it isn't is disingenuous. You can't prove something doesn't exist. I can't prove the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist. On the other hand, when you make a claim that something DOES exist, you should be able to back that up.

But this is teh interweb where pilots, doctors, tree surgeons, carpenters all learn their trade through forum posts...

WTF you on about. Do you really think Ive can be bothered to find something to keep you quite when it seems all you want to contribute is software that you are unable to demonstrate works. And I suppose my thread is useless as well is it? Ive called many trades since nov, with charts and reasons for entry along with videos etc,etc.others on their also,and its all on the web. So why do you spend your time on here if yo believe there is nothing to learn. Just to sell your software for a method that is completely unproven, or is it not available on the net as well?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

oh and just to add,instead of wasting time posting on these threads,DT give me a moving average and if ive got time at the start of next month, Ill call the trades live room with reasons why etc.That will prove that any method can work and that most of its in your mind

 

[new_trader]

WTF you on about. Do you really think Ive can be bothered to find something to keep you quite when it seems all you want to contribute is software that you are unable to demonstrate works. And I suppose my thread is useless as well is it? Ive called many trades since nov, with charts and reasons for entry along with videos etc,etc.others on their also,and its all on the web. So why do you spend your time on here if yo believe there is nothing to learn. Just to sell your software for a method that is completely unproven, or is it not available on the net as well?

I'm betting that he is setting himself up to be a Mentor/Coach/Trainer now. Why else spend so much time and effort in an internet forum telling people that anything they read in an internet forum is BS...of course they exclude their own postings in that internet forum...talk about irony!

 

[DionysusToast]

oh and just to add,instead of wasting time posting on these threads,DT give me a moving average and if ive got time at the start of next month, Ill call the trades live room with reasons why etc.That will prove that any method can work and that most of its in your mind

sigh...

tell you what...

give me a penguin with tourettes.

every time it says 'fooking fish', I'll take a trade.

now - if I'm profitable, there will probably be a coupla hundred guys trying to buy the penguin off me.

I'm a discretionary trader, so whenever the penguin swears, I'll just go with where I think the market is heading, based on how I understand market structure. This is the skill. The penguin is a gimmick. A bit like your MA.

Still, I'm game. Let's take - the 9MA on the EUR/USD, 5 min chart. Shall we have a friendly wager on it?

Just one other condition - you need to follow rules stated on this forum somewhere, or elsewhere on the internet. After all, everything you need to trade is on the internet, this shouldn't be too hard.

What shall we say? You make $$$$ and I buy you a Kindle? You lose and you buy me a kindle?

As for live room - why not just live posts? I don't want to join a trading room...

 

[donaldduke]

wake up and smell the bacon, you can't.

You want something. Go get it. Period. - YouTube

 

[DionysusToast]

WTF you on about. Do you really think Ive can be bothered to find something to keep you quite when it seems all you want to contribute is software that you are unable to demonstrate works. And I suppose my thread is useless as well is it? Ive called many trades since nov, with charts and reasons for entry along with videos etc,etc.others on their also,and its all on the web. So why do you spend your time on here if yo believe there is nothing to learn. Just to sell your software for a method that is completely unproven, or is it not available on the net as well?

This is quite simple.

You stated the oft repeated platitude that everything you need to learn is on the internet.

I asked where it was and you started going on about psychology.

You can try to shift the argument elsewhere if you like - or you can tell us all where all this 'good stuff' is.

Like I say, quite simple. If you want to discuss other stuff - start a thread on it. Right here we are discussing the futility of trying to get profitable via teh web without the help of a mentor.

 

[smacker]

You'll get so far, but trust me when i say this, you need to know people who've proved themselves year after year to be consistently profitable through changing eras of political regimes, economic bubbles and busts, wars and social unrest. In case you didn't realise, those individuals who've prospered through these times (20 years+) are very few in numbers.

Agree.

Does anyone here know George or Warren personally, if so, can I have their number please.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

I'm betting that he is setting himself up to be a Mentor/Coach/Trainer now. Why else spend so much time and effort in an internet forum telling people that anything they read in an internet forum is BS...of course they exclude their own postings in that internet forum...talk about irony!

Absolutely, he says theres nothing on the web and forgets thats how he sells his product,what does that tell you. As for Black Swan,anyone will tell you I was on his case years ago but most of it fell on deaf ears so i gave up pursuing him. I think as you said he is going down a similar path. Come on DT youve opened yourself up here,time you proved yourself. You can do it on the web or over the phone if the web is not good enough for you?

 

[smacker]

sigh...

tell you what...

give me a penguin with tourettes.

every time it says 'fooking fish', I'll take a trade.

now - if I'm profitable, there will probably be a coupla hundred guys trying to buy the penguin off me.

I'm a discretionary trader, so whenever the penguin swears, I'll just go with where I think the market is heading, based on how I understand market structure. This is the skill. The penguin is a gimmick. A bit like your MA.

Still, I'm game. Let's take - the 9MA on the EUR/USD, 5 min chart. Shall we have a friendly wager on it?

Just one other condition - you need to follow rules stated on this forum somewhere, or elsewhere on the internet. After all, everything you need to trade is on the internet, this shouldn't be too hard.

What shall we say? You make $$$$ and I buy you a Kindle? You lose and you buy me a kindle?

As for live room - why not just live posts? I don't want to join a trading room...

If you ever find a talking Penguin, get it on America's got talent, you will make a mint buddy.